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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Mon, May-21-2018, 11:32:17 PM   #61
Kwakjoe
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

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Originally Posted by WuBai View Post
Exactly. I would have to think that there would have to be some sort of compromise, somewhere. TTFS has had his tune dialed in for a while now and I'm wondering why he left HP on the table. There are two options as far as I can see.... One is that B-Spec just flat out did a better job. Or two, Frank could have made those gains, but chose not to for some reason such as reliability. I'm not being skeptical, I have a TTFS tune plus their SMG tune and am very happy. However, if somebody from Build Journal can explain, without giving away too much, how their tune makes that much more torque across the range even without E85 while still maintaining reliability, then I certainly wouldn't be opposed to getting their tune myself.
I have the buildjournal tune with multiple track days and quite a bit of miles and no problems yet. I bought it under the presumption that I would yield less power, but still get all the goodies that other tunes charge 600+ for. If it makes more power than TTFS, this has to be the biggest bargain then.
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 06:37:44 PM   #62
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

Buildjournal's support is really good. However my car picked up virtually no power before/after dyno with B-spec tune. I'm not sure why or what happened. I even flashed it twice.
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 06:53:30 PM   #63
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

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Originally Posted by newton22 View Post
Buildjournal's support is really good. However my car picked up virtually no power before/after dyno with B-spec tune. I'm not sure why or what happened. I even flashed it twice.
You're positive you had a stock u.s. bin on your ECU before bspec file? Could have had a euro file or other "tuned" file maybe?
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 08:23:28 PM   #64
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

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Originally Posted by TboneM3 View Post
You're positive you had a stock u.s. bin on your ECU before bspec file? Could have had a euro file or other "tuned" file maybe?
I did supposedly have a euro file on my before tune. But I also thought euro tunes didn't provide any power gains.
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 08:39:01 PM   #65
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

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Originally Posted by newton22 View Post
I did supposedly have a euro file on my before tune. But I also thought euro tunes didn't provide any power gains.
I think a euro tune would lean you out a little to help with catless headers to make some more power but not positive
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 09:45:30 PM   #66
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

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Originally Posted by Kwakjoe View Post
I'm still impressed that B Spec yielded better results than TTFS considering they're a "budget-friendly" tune.
There seems to be a lot of moving parts under the surface here...if I'm reading/understanding things right?

1. Were OP's pulls made w/a TTFS base tune w/the eVenturi installed? In my experience, cars with aftermarket intakes will frequently require a re-tune to optimize both power and drivability. Even though it's a MAF based ECU, it can only compensate so much for non-factory intakes/exhaust.

2. Didn't OP say that he had 2 tune revisions from B spec? This would pretty guarantee the upper hand over any tuner's base tune. Give any tuner the luxury of providing an updated tune to account for equipment changes, and you should see an improvement.

3. Not busting on B spec in any way here...as 'affordable' tunes are now a reality for this platform, and not necessarily a bad thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryivnx View Post
I liked TTFS tune as well as I’ve had it for years. The only reason I switched was because somehow my idle was absolute crap after I switched to eVenturi.
Not saying it was because TTFS was at fault as I bought the eVentury AFTER Frank sent me his tune and maybe he did not account for it.
I’m not a tuner and I don’t know why.
However, what I do know is that my car runs a lot better now. Power delivery is smoother across the range and there is more torque.
Andrew from buildjournal did 2 iterations of my tune and maybe it is better “dialed in”.

As far as I know B spec has not killed any motors to date, but I will update this thread after some time driving the car and as it is my daily driver of 60 miles/day.

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OP, if in fact you ran the TTFS base tune w/o accounting for the eVenturi, I can pretty much guarantee that you're going to run into drivability issues and not make max power. Also, again, if I'm reading correctly...B spec made a couple of revisions to their tune, so it's really not that much of a surprise that it performed better. I know I'm just pointing out the obvious again in this thread, but still think it's worth mentioning based on some of the comments I'm seeing. If I'm misinterpreting something, then feel free to completely disregard my comments-lol.
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 10:30:15 PM   #67
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

Does the B-spec tune have only two variations (catted/catless) or do they actually change the tune for each specific car to optimize for other mods?
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 10:55:10 PM   #68
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Default Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

Quote:
Originally Posted by stash1 View Post
There seems to be a lot of moving parts under the surface here...if I'm reading/understanding things right?



1. Were OP's pulls made w/a TTFS base tune w/the eVenturi installed? In my experience, cars with aftermarket intakes will frequently require a re-tune to optimize both power and drivability. Even though it's a MAF based ECU, it can only compensate so much for non-factory intakes/exhaust.



2. Didn't OP say that he had 2 tune revisions from B spec? This would pretty guarantee the upper hand over any tuner's base tune. Give any tuner the luxury of providing an updated tune to account for equipment changes, and you should see an improvement.



3. Not busting on B spec in any way here...as 'affordable' tunes are now a reality for this platform, and not necessarily a bad thing.







OP, if in fact you ran the TTFS base tune w/o accounting for the eVenturi, I can pretty much guarantee that you're going to run into drivability issues and not make max power. Also, again, if I'm reading correctly...B spec made a couple of revisions to their tune, so it's really not that much of a surprise that it performed better. I know I'm just pointing out the obvious again in this thread, but still think it's worth mentioning based on some of the comments I'm seeing. If I'm misinterpreting something, then feel free to completely disregard my comments-lol.


My dyno runs were as follows:
1. Stock car + Dinan tune = 291 whp
- as I mentioned earlier, I had a friend install the dinan tune from S2 car but I did not have ANY of the supporting hardware (BBTBs, IAT relocation and CAI)

2. My second time on the same dyno was with euro headers/cats + conversion from SMG to 6MT + TTFS tune and stock intake

3. My third time on the dyno was all the hardware in the 2nd run + eVenturi and relocated IAT. There was little (maybe 2-4 hp) improvement in overall horsepower and torque (went from 301 to 305 whp)

4. My fourth run on the same dyno was all of the above + proper flash to stock 6MT tune (due to my idle issues) + B spec which resulted in minima peak HP gains but the midrange HP and torque had improved dramatically.

5. My last run on the same dyno was all of the above + E85 fuel at 47% mix then 57% mix. Each with 3 runs for consistency without unstrapping the car.


Over the last 4 years I did a total of 5 dyno sessions with 18 or 19 pulls on the same dyno, at the same facility, strapped the same way, performed by the same operator - Steve with very similar weather conditions.

Conclusions:
I liked the TTFS tune. I ran it for years, and Frank is an awesome dude!
Maybe the tune needed to be adapted to my eVenturi, maybe there was something else going on like the ghosts of SMG messing with my idle. I don’t know why but the only reason I went to B spec in the first place was to correct my idle issues.

As far as iterations.
Buildjournal did 2 iterations on my tune.
The AFR goals and the actua tune was the same and did not change as per Oscar, what he did change was “throttle mapping” whatever that means. And the only reason he had made 2 iterations was because I had millisecond hesitations when under load in 2nd and 3rd gears from 2-3000 rpm.
After the throttle mapping had been adjusted that was resolved and that was it.

There is a part of me that believes that although each M3 came from the same facility, for some reason each one of them behaves slightly differently and the performance slightly varies from car to car. “One fits all” tune may not provide same and consistent results (hence I’ve gone through 3 tunes).



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Last edited by ryivnx; Wed, May-23-2018 at 11:03:07 PM.
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Old Wed, May-23-2018, 11:00:32 PM   #69
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxic0n View Post
Does the B-spec tune have only two variations (catted/catless) or do they actually change the tune for each specific car to optimize for other mods?


From what I understand they have 2 versions as you mentioned above.
But I did give them my list of mods to insure the tune works well with hardware.
I’m not a tuner so I don’t know what adjustments they make but you might want to ask them directly.


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Old Thu, May-24-2018, 12:43:18 AM   #70
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Default Re: Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ryivnx View Post
My dyno runs were as follows:
1. Stock car + Dinan tune = 291 whp
- as I mentioned earlier, I had a friend install the dinan tune from S2 car but I did not have ANY of the supporting hardware (BBTBs, IAT relocation and CAI)

2. My second time on the same dyno was with euro headers/cats + conversion from SMG to 6MT + TTFS tune and stock intake

3. My third time on the dyno was all the hardware in the 2nd run + eVenturi and relocated IAT.
There was little (maybe 2-4 hp) improvement in overall horsepower and torque (went from 301 to 305 whp)

4. My fourth run on the same dyno was all of the above + proper flash to stock 6MT tune (due to my idle issues) + B spec which resulted in minima peak HP gains but the midrange HP and torque had improved dramatically.

5. My last run on the same dyno was all of the above + E85 fuel at 47% mix then 57% mix. Each with 3 runs for consistency without unstrapping the car.


Over the last 4 years I did a total of 5 dyno sessions with 18 or 19 pulls on the same dyno, at the same facility, strapped the same way, performed by the same operator - Steve with very similar weather conditions.

Conclusions:
I liked the TTFS tune. I ran it for years, and Frank is an awesome dude!
Maybe the tune needed to be adapted to my eVenturi, maybe there was something else going on like the ghosts of SMG messing with my idle. I don’t know why but the only reason I went to B spec in the first place was to correct my idle issues.

As far as iterations.
Buildjournal did 2 iterations on my tune.
The AFR goals and the actua tune was the same and did not change as per Oscar, what he did change was “throttle mapping” whatever that means. And the only reason he had made 2 iterations was because I had millisecond hesitations when under load in 2nd and 3rd gears from 2-3000 rpm.
After the throttle mapping had been adjusted that was resolved and that was it.

There is a part of me that believes that although each M3 came from the same facility, for some reason each one of them behaves slightly differently and the performance slightly varies from car to car. “One fits all” tune may not provide same and consistent results (hence I’ve gone through 3 tunes).



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gotcha, soooo...that confirms and makes sense. Not all aftermarket intakes require a tune, but the more sophisticated ones like the eVenturi and the gruppe m (and their knock-offs) seem to re-quire a re-tune to maximize drivability and power. (My old gruppe m def did.) What I call sensor tolerance stacking can also have an affect on how each car reacts to intake/exhaust changes as well...which is what you were eluding to in the last paragraph.
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Discussing Review of B spec tune + E85 (335 whp and 265 wheel torque - dyno charts included) in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)