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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 01:45:27 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Racing shocks have very little in common with street kit shocks
Keep in mind that several improvements and innovations that are present in KW's street products, are a DIRECT result of R&D achieved through their racing efforts.

For example:

KW street coilovers derive a huge PERFORMANCE benefit from their extensive racing suspension technologies. Such as:

* Trapezoidal-cut height adjustment threads (to resist striping)
* CNC-machined, hardened, & chromium-plated strut and shock piston rods (to prevent corrosion and reduce friction)
* Pistons with V-shaped Teflon seals (for optimal sealing with minimal internal friction)
* Special guide and ultra high-pressure sealing systems (to insure non-binding and leak-free operation under severe loads)
*High temperature-resistance due to lower overall internal friction (will not suffer loss of performance due to overheating after sustain periods)

Also, on the Variant 3 for example, the compression characteristics are adjusted utilizing a valve at the lower end of the damper casing. (KW received a German patent for this technology) The number of pre-installable parameters available for this valve allow for settings for just about any application required. The unique low-speed pressure adjustment is the decisive feature of this technology. In this absorption area, the handling of the vehicle is greatly influenced. An increase in the damping force supports the vehicle even during compression, thereby preventing pitch, roll and notably improving cornering behavior.

All of these suspension technologies are the direct result of KW's extensive expertise drawn from various forms of motor sport racing all over the world.

Note: Every KW suspension component is designed & extensively road tested for optimum performance before it is released to the public. (they have incredibly high build quality standards)







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Last edited by Cleveland; Fri, Oct-05-2007 at 01:49:12 PM.
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 02:03:39 PM   #32
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Cleveland, I get the impression you think I should add a build quality review to each of the descriptions

The reason I didn't go into the above is that I think all of the kits are pretty well built. For example, Trapezoidal-cut height adjustment threads-- I have no doubt that they're stronger BUT how often have you heard of ride height adjustor failure? I have never seen that happen, on any of the kits on the market. Or the Inox shock bodies-- no doubt that is a good thing (and I put it in the KW advantages), but at the same time I have friends with 250,000 miles on their konis (e30 owners), and rust hasn't been an issue for them yet (and they still dampen properly such that, even with the lifetime warrantee, they haven't felt the need to send them in for replacement).

I also find myself in a weird position here of arguing against KWs, which isn't really a position I want to be in, as I think for some people they are the best option. I also don't think I disagreed with anything you have said in my original post (except for the one bit about my opinion on the damping.... which I removed).

Not to mention, on many occasions I have told people that if Cleveland and I disagree on something, Cleveland is right and ignore me.
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Last edited by Obioban; Fri, Oct-05-2007 at 09:04:22 PM.
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 02:07:48 PM   #33
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Not a whole lot of actual experience with these yet, as they're very new, but they're not really shaping up to be a street suspension.
I can see that, especially at the price point for a D/A kit (at least the price I saw, not sure how it compares with your pricing). I really don't think its worth spending that amount of money (even TCK D/A is borderline on the pricing) for a street only vehicle looking for a drop (and sometimes better ride). And from what I have heard, these are valved more for track (not surprising given their history).

What kind of feedback are you hearing about these systems?

Overall, interesting discussion on the pros/cons of each system. At one point I was leaning towards the KWs, but the progressive springs gave me a moment of pause.
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 02:20:09 PM   #34
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Ian, Congrats on the sponsorship, that's awesome . I have a question that either you or Cleveland can answer. Is there a choice of spring rates available from KW for the Variant 3? I know they normally come with progressive springs but since it was mentioned they manufacture springs for Eibach and looking at the 'helper' spring set up in the pics posted below I wondered if I had a alternate choice in springs from them. I would like to use linear springs on the V3s if that's available from them.

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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 02:22:16 PM   #35
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Cleveland: Are you selling something?

Ian: What's with the removal of the Kazik flag?! I'm soooo disappointed. Next thing we know, you're avitar is going to show you in a three piece suit and salesman's teeth. Good luck to you. When I'm in the market for some C/Os, I'll go to you first. You're a great resource.
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 02:48:49 PM   #36
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Cleveland: Are you selling something?

Ian: What's with the removal of the Kazik flag?! I'm soooo disappointed. Next thing we know, you're avitar is going to show you in a three piece suit and salesman's teeth. Good luck to you. When I'm in the market for some C/Os, I'll go to you first. You're a great resource.


Buy American, rah rah!

Plus, I got tired of *******, Uzbekistan
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 03:13:55 PM   #37
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From what I've gathered, about 2/3 of the TCK DA rears rattle. I don't believe standard koni DAs do rattle-- TCK has custom valving
I have tck's and I guess I lucked out...
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 03:18:15 PM   #38
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Ian, Congrats on the sponsorship, that's awesome . I have a question that either you or Cleveland can answer. Is there a choice of spring rates available from KW for the Variant 3? I know they normally come with progressive springs but since it was mentioned they manufacture springs for Eibach and looking at the 'helper' spring set up in the pics posted below I wondered if I had a alternate choice in springs from them. I would like to use linear springs on the V3s if that's available from them.
There are spring choices, I'll get them for you when I get home this afternoon
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 03:24:38 PM   #39
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I can see that, especially at the price point for a D/A kit (at least the price I saw, not sure how it compares with your pricing). I really don't think its worth spending that amount of money (even TCK D/A is borderline on the pricing) for a street only vehicle looking for a drop (and sometimes better ride). And from what I have heard, these are valved more for track (not surprising given their history).

What kind of feedback are you hearing about these systems?

Overall, interesting discussion on the pros/cons of each system. At one point I was leaning towards the KWs, but the progressive springs gave me a moment of pause.
Simple math problem...

If the ratio is in the 90-99% range for driving your car on the street, then it's not that difficult of a decision. Normal, or even 'spirited' street driving, will never approach the same suspension stress level (forces), as a car running wide open on a dedicated track. (if you managed to to that on the street, your car would be impounded and you would be in jail ) So if you are not a track junkie, the whole LINEAR springs vs. PROGRESSIVE spring debate is basically mute.

If you are not going to turn your M3 into a dedicated track car, why give up ANY ride comfort by using LINEAR springs. (less forgiving than PROGRESSIVE springs)

The low-speed and high-speed dampening characteristics are different in each application. Some similarities exist, but a one-size-fits-all coilover kit simply doesn't exist. (no matter which brand you choose)

Don't believe the hype. Trust me, you are making a compromise somewhere. (fact)

Many of the guy's looking to upgrade their suspensions, are fooling themselves with dreams of going to the track every weekend and thrashing their cars around. Well the truth is...very few people ever do that. But they buy LINEAR springs that will give them less than ideal ride comfort, and they expose their cars chassis to a higher risk of developing a sub-frame failure.

Here is my recommendation...

If you want a stiffer, more taught, and extremely responsive suspension setup than stock, and you are willing to live with a little harsher ride(and any other potential fallout) on a day-to-day basis, then by all means go with LINEAR SPRINGS.

If you want a little stiffer ride, that is 'just' a little more responsive than the OEM suspension provides, but you really don't want to give up anything the ride comfort area, buy PROGRESSIVE springs that are specifically designed to achieves that goal. PROGRESSIVE springs are more forgiving than than LINEAR springs on the street. (fact) Another thing people seem to forget (or simply don't know), is that the dampers are actually more important to the performance of the suspension than the springs. The springs primary job are to hold up the car, so the dampers can do their job. So having a kit with PROGRESSIVE springs shouldn't really be deal killer per say.

NOTE: Just because a spring is PROGRESSIVE, doesn't mean there is no design or R&D behind it. Initial progressive springs rates for each coilover kit, can be manipulated by the type of steel alloy used, and the size of the spring itself. (even though they increase exponentially) People give PROGRESSIVE springs a bad rap (which is unfair) when virtually every car sold in the world uses them. (even expensive performance-oriented sports cars) Coilovers (or spring types) aren't the end of the story. These aren't the only thing that you can buy to tweak the suspension characteristics of your car. Bushings and sway bars are two commonly overlooked components that can have a dramatic impact on the performance of your cars suspension.
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Old Fri, Oct-05-2007, 03:37:12 PM   #40
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Ian, Congrats on the sponsorship, that's awesome . I have a question that either you or Cleveland can answer. Is there a choice of spring rates available from KW for the Variant 3? I know they normally come with progressive springs but since it was mentioned they manufacture springs for Eibach and looking at the 'helper' spring set up in the pics posted below I wondered if I had a alternate choice in springs from them. I would like to use linear springs on the V3s if that's available from them.
Since KW is based in Europe, the kits they sell in the USA are going to be somewhat limited in regards to custom optional items like LINEAR spring rates.

But to answer your question...YES, KW does offer a variety of LINEAR spring rates that can be used with the Variant 2 & 3 Coilover kits. The thing is...you have to buy the kits with PROGRESSIVE springs though, and then buy the LINEAR springs separate for approx $90 each if you really want those bad enough.

Note: Buying LINEAR springs for this application is not recommended by KW.

I'm willing to bet, that if you bought these Coilovers with the standard PROGRESSIVE springs, you wouldn't see or feel the need to swap over. The dampers/springs work so well together, any reservations would quickly disappear.
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Last edited by Cleveland; Sat, Oct-06-2007 at 01:29:54 AM.
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Discussing Objective suspension comparison with subjective target audiences in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)