BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Wed, Nov-22-2017, 03:04:59 PM   #41
Turb02
Registered User
 
Turb02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 187
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Turb02 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

I think people are trying to replace logic with science. Sometimes its the easy answer that is the best.

Focus on where the heat is, and vent it from the closest possible place (above the manifold, around the radiator). Make it symmetrical if needed.

Personally, to me, it looks as though the VIS XTS hood (above this post) would provide the best amount of heat dissipation based on the size and location of the vents.


My recommendation would be to not make it too busy. Less is more.

Trying to combine the M4 vent would blur the lines a bit. The shape doesnt really fit the E46 lines, Unless you took the same shape/lines of the power bulge, shrunk it down a bit, and placed it right behind the rad.


This will not be taken well with the community, and would look horrendous, but ram air that sh!t. WS6 style



EDIT: This is available to purchase, but will turn your car into an Mitsu Evo:
http://trackspecmotorsports.com/shop...od-louvers-kit
__________________

Active Autowerke Stage 2-AA Headers-Meisterschaft-Vorsteiner-Brembo-BBS-CSL

Last edited by Turb02; Wed, Nov-22-2017 at 03:16:03 PM.
Jump to top Turb02 is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Wed, Nov-22-2017, 03:40:58 PM   #42
CrookedCommie
Captain Slow
 
CrookedCommie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 887
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 CrookedCommie is on a distinguished road
Location: Cincinnati

Bulgaria




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

I know they aren't exactly classy* and timeless, but track cars have an easier/cheaper solution:
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=556687

*not that vented hoods are really that classy to begin with.
Jump to top CrookedCommie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-22-2017, 03:49:19 PM   #43
2006E46M3fan
Registered User
 
2006E46M3fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,096
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 2006E46M3fan is on a distinguished road
Location: Connecticut

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLFN8TR View Post

That is the VIS Racing XTS CF Hood.
Looks great and love myself a nice Tiag! Fitment? Using hood pins?
__________________
Jump to top 2006E46M3fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-22-2017, 04:35:18 PM   #44
WOLFN8TR
"MONEY"
 
WOLFN8TR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,554
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 WOLFN8TR is on a distinguished road
Location: Las Vegas

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2006E46M3fan View Post
Looks great and love myself a nice Tiag! Fitment? Using hood pins?

It's actually Silver Grey. No hood pins. I made sure the hood was adjusted so the hood pins and latch work perfectly. I've had it for over a year on my DD with No issues.
__________________
Build Thread - S54 Vanos Thread

UltraGauge - BAVSOUND Stage 1 - Valentine One - Orion V4's - SBV2
TTFS Engine/SMG Tune - SGT Headers/Sect 1/SCZA - Evolve Eventuri
VIS XTS CF Hood - CF Lip/Console/Diffuser - OE CSL Trunk - Turner Spacers 15/12 - BWS 500S 12k/16k
Jump to top WOLFN8TR is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-22-2017, 05:30:03 PM   #45
mrgizmo04
Registered User
 
mrgizmo04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 626
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mrgizmo04 is on a distinguished road
Location: Menlo Park

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turb02 View Post
I think people are trying to replace logic with science. Sometimes its the easy answer that is the best.

Focus on where the heat is, and vent it from the closest possible place (above the manifold, around the radiator). Make it symmetrical if needed.

Personally, to me, it looks as though the VIS XTS hood (above this post) would provide the best amount of heat dissipation based on the size and location of the vents.


My recommendation would be to not make it too busy. Less is more.

Trying to combine the M4 vent would blur the lines a bit. The shape doesnt really fit the E46 lines, Unless you took the same shape/lines of the power bulge, shrunk it down a bit, and placed it right behind the rad.


This will not be taken well with the community, and would look horrendous, but ram air that sh!t. WS6 style



EDIT: This is available to purchase, but will turn your car into an Mitsu Evo:
http://trackspecmotorsports.com/shop...od-louvers-kit
Mate, I hope I don't come across as an ahole for being one of the ones suggesting science to accomplish the "function" portion of this project...I was just trying to provide my . I personally am not looking for the next best-fitting CF hood with symmetric vents for my car. Was just providing my feedback, which is what doc asked for.

Logic tells you there is heat under the bonnet and you need to get it out. Sure. Vents "around" the radiator. How much is "around" and where? Above the radiator might be ok if the car is stationary, but once it starts moving/cruising at 60mph there is additional air flow to consider that would push the stream back so the vent might need to be placed further back. Where is the air pressure lowest to help suck it out?

Our brains naturally love symmetry for aesthetics. Sure. But why do we want to put a small vent right behind the driver side headlight? In function that might serve close to 0 purpose? With all the stock fan shrouding and a stock airbox in the way, how is the hot engine air getting there? On the passenger side, the vent right behind the headlight - there is the secondary air pump, coolant expansion tank, etc, is that the best place for the heat from the headers (which are set much further back) to escape? I don't know the answer to those questions..., logic might suggest "no", but science might prove it otherwise, or vice versa?

To do it right there are 2 ways.
1) Make it functional first and then figure out the aesthetic details and how to make it look better.
2) Make it aesthetic first (small vents behind headlights, etc) but then to make it functional figure out that there is actually airflow getting there, and if not, figure out how to get the airflow there.

Again, not trying to derail any of the previous thoughts and discussions, that's why for the functional portion I suggested maybe partnering up with one of the r&d shops who could assist. I love logic as much, if not more, than the next guy, trust me. If all we want is an nice-looking, well-fitting hood with some nice-looking vents out of this thread, then be it. Just providing my feedback and thoughts for OP and others to consider from a slightly different angle.
__________________
'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, Rogue RSM with reinforcement, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, Magnaflow catback, new SAC/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh.

Last edited by mrgizmo04; Wed, Nov-22-2017 at 05:48:09 PM.
Jump to top mrgizmo04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-22-2017, 06:09:02 PM   #46
Turb02
Registered User
 
Turb02's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 187
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Turb02 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgizmo04 View Post
Mate, I hope I don't come across as an ahole for being one of the ones suggesting science to accomplish the "function" portion of this project...I was just trying to provide my . I personally am not looking for the next best-fitting CF hood with symmetric vents for my car. Was just providing my feedback, which is what doc asked for.

Logic tells you there is heat under the bonnet and you need to get it out. Sure. Vents "around" the radiator. How much is "around" and where? Above the radiator might be ok if the car is stationary, but once it starts moving/cruising at 60mph there is additional air flow to consider that would push the stream back so the vent might need to be placed further back. Where is the air pressure lowest to help suck it out?

Our brains naturally love symmetry for aesthetics. Sure. But why do we want to put a small vent right behind the driver side headlight? In function that might serve close to 0 purpose? With all the stock fan shrouding and a stock airbox in the way, how is the hot engine air getting there? On the passenger side, the vent right behind the headlight - there is the secondary air pump, coolant expansion tank, etc, is that the best place for the heat from the headers (which are set much further back) to escape? I don't know the answer to those questions..., logic might suggest "no", but science might prove it otherwise, or vice versa?

To do it right there are 2 ways.
1) Make it functional first and then figure out the aesthetic details and how to make it look better.
2) Make it aesthetic first (small vents behind headlights, etc) but then to make it functional figure out that there is actually airflow getting there, and if not, figure out how to get the airflow there.

Again, not trying to derail any of the previous thoughts and discussions, that's why for the functional portion I suggested maybe partnering up with one of the r&d shops who could assist. I love logic as much, if not more, than the next guy, trust me. If all we want is an nice-looking, well-fitting hood with some nice-looking vents out of this thread, then be it. Just providing my feedback and thoughts for OP and others to consider from a slightly different angle.
Didnt come off an a A-hole at all. I honestly feel that "sciencing the shit" out of this would be awesome, but that costs a lot of money, which would have to be made up somehow (read: buyers pay for it).

The first post is summed up like this: we want race car functionality without the racecar look.

^ Thats hard to do without spending tons of money, or messing up the bodylines. Thats why the majority of the hoods that are currently (or formerly) on the market, all resemble each other, with minor tweaks to stand out.

Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick 2. Substitute fast as you see fit (project management triangle). My point is, there have been so many companies that have made hoods for these cars (pictured already), other companies that have made "kits" for vents with statements saying "proven lower underhood temps, aero benefits, etc., etc...",


Please dont take this the wrong way, Id love to see a unique design, better under hood temps, and functional aero, but at what price point? With a limited number of people that would buy these, what would the cost be? Would everyone be willing to pay (my ASSumption) $2K+ for the R&D time, manufacturing time, and shipping? That doesnt include paint.


I wholly support this effort and dont want to come off as a negative Nancy, at all. I apologize if I have.
__________________

Active Autowerke Stage 2-AA Headers-Meisterschaft-Vorsteiner-Brembo-BBS-CSL
Jump to top Turb02 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-22-2017, 06:15:49 PM   #47
mrgizmo04
Registered User
 
mrgizmo04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 626
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mrgizmo04 is on a distinguished road
Location: Menlo Park

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by Turb02 View Post
Didnt come off an a A-hole at all. I honestly feel that "sciencing the shit" out of this would be awesome, but that costs a lot of money, which would have to be made up somehow (read: buyers pay for it).

The first post is summed up like this: we want race car functionality without the racecar look.

^ Thats hard to do without spending tons of money, or messing up the bodylines. Thats why the majority of the hoods that are currently (or formerly) on the market, all resemble each other, with minor tweaks to stand out.

Cheap, Fast, Good. Pick 2. Substitute fast as you see fit (project management triangle). My point is, there have been so many companies that have made hoods for these cars (pictured already), other companies that have made "kits" for vents with statements saying "proven lower underhood temps, aero benefits, etc., etc...",


Please dont take this the wrong way, Id love to see a unique design, better under hood temps, and functional aero, but at what price point? With a limited number of people that would buy these, what would the cost be? Would everyone be willing to pay (my ASSumption) $2K+ for the R&D time, manufacturing time, and shipping? That doesnt include paint.


I wholly support this effort and dont want to come off as a negative Nancy, at all. I apologize if I have.
Ok cool, we are on the same page.

Yeah it's a classic multi variable optimization problem, all factors can not be at 100%, something has to give. Pricing, marketing, engineering, r&d, someone has to eat that.

Most members here are not track rats, so aesthetics would probably take priority. Pricing...who knows, 2k might be doable if it looked awesome/different from what is on the market and it was an easy bolt on and FIT.

Cheers.
__________________
'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, Rogue RSM with reinforcement, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, Magnaflow catback, new SAC/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh.
Jump to top mrgizmo04 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-29-2017, 01:15:35 AM   #48
BTB
Registered User
 
BTB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,560
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 BTB is on a distinguished road
Location: Chicagoland

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

Definitely interested in a nice looking vent setup that allows for additional cooling. I like what Vince did: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=530596
__________________
UIUC / TU Munich Mechanical Engineering 2018
2003 ///M3 6MT Coupe Imola Red/Black Napa, slicktop, manual seats
My Journal
Jump to top BTB is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-29-2017, 01:46:26 PM   #49
Obioban
Moderator
 
Obioban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,419
In the garage:
Reputation: 54 Obioban has a spectacular aura about
Location: SE PA

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgizmo04 View Post
Ok cool, we are on the same page.

Yeah it's a classic multi variable optimization problem, all factors can not be at 100%, something has to give. Pricing, marketing, engineering, r&d, someone has to eat that.

Most members here are not track rats, so aesthetics would probably take priority. Pricing...who knows, 2k might be doable if it looked awesome/different from what is on the market and it was an easy bolt on and FIT.

Cheers.
There are tons of cheap and functional venting solutions already on the market, for those that just want function and don't care about appearance.
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, 03 530i, 04 M3 wagon
Past cars: 04 M3, 96 M3, S50B32 e36 M3 CM race car
Jump to top Obioban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Wed, Nov-29-2017, 01:55:19 PM   #50
Obioban
Moderator
 
Obioban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,419
In the garage:
Reputation: 54 Obioban has a spectacular aura about
Location: SE PA

United States




Default Re: Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction

I'm a bit conflicted. The GTS style rad vent strikes me as the most functional way to vent the rad generated heat, but I don't think it flows with the lines of the e46M at all.

To my eye, this is the best looking vented hood:
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, 03 530i, 04 M3 wagon
Past cars: 04 M3, 96 M3, S50B32 e36 M3 CM race car
Jump to top Obioban is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 08:25:15 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing Designing a classy and timeless hood with functional heat reduction in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)