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Old Fri, Jul-06-2018, 01:52:32 AM   #1
10speed
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Default What pulls timing on the S54?

I am in the process of having my car tuned after adding the Evolve CF airbox. The car has been on the dyno twice, having remote tuning done. So far, we have about 4 hours into it. The problem is, the car is just not making the power we are expecting.

Previously, mods were SS V1 headers and S-Pipe, SS section 2, OEM muffler, Epic tune, pulleys, stock airbox, alpha-n maf delete with 4" intake. 325hp/245tq on a dynojet.

Went to the same dyno with everything else the same except for the Evolve CF airbox and swapped in the OEM section 2. Car was way down on power. Somewhere around 315/235. The IATs were really high. The intake wasn't able to get any good cool air. Other ideas were the knock sensors may have been faulty. Also, checked the part number on the IAT sensor.

Swapped in new knock sensors, e36 M3 IAT sensor, built a heat shield for the airbox and ran three 3" ducts from the front bumper. IATs are now +1-3 degrees ambient, so got that covered. Did quite a lot of 3rd gear pulls with BMWlogger and forwarded those logs to the tuner. Tuner verified car was still down on timing. Put 100 octane in it and ran more logs. The car responded with improved timing yet, not quite where it should be. Decided to put 92 octane back in it and hit the dyno again.

The results of that dyno session were 321/248. I asked him to tune for more torque. Should still be running more timing than it is. We are down to a couple things now, faulty DME, or possibly the airbox is so loud or vibrating so much that it is interfering with the knock sensors.

Thoughts?
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Old Fri, Jul-06-2018, 06:20:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Assuming your tune is optimized for 91 or whatever is available in your area? Some tune it for 93 or above, so double check.

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Old Fri, Jul-06-2018, 10:52:14 AM   #3
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Interesting. Few thoughts...

Some believe that the "CFracecarairboxCSL!!!" gains are relatively BS / minimal. I know one tuner who is emphatic about that actually and thinks the CSL airboxes are a ridiculous waste of money. (they do look and sound awesome tho'.... ) so... are you sure your expects aren't too high?

In addition, I've seen some BTB tuning of various S54 cars and started to really believe in the (somewhat surprising) importance of big exhaust. There was one track rat car around here that made loads more power than it should, given its other (relative lack of) mods, and the one big difference was a massive exhaust. So maybe your OEM section 2 reversion is really hurting you?

Lastly, your 'base line' 325whp is, as you prob know, super strong. Thats a good number. Gonna be hard to beat that with less-exhaust + CF airbox... again... expectations...

I doubt your KS were bad BTW. And extremely doubt a bad DME. Esp when the car is otherwise making great power, just not quite as much as you're hoping for. These things are really robust little computers. I suppose the question about the vibration and the KS is valid maybe... But for that mod list a 320-325whp number seems roughly right to me?
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Old Fri, Jul-06-2018, 02:23:31 PM   #4
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

I would swap the section 2 back in and go from there. It's almost the last step really to mimic true before and after results.

And is this the same tuner as you were before with factory air box...?
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Old Fri, Jul-06-2018, 03:16:37 PM   #5
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

He said before he was on Epic tune, then given the reference of BMWLogger, I'm going to guess after maybe is TTFS since Frank is the dude who is most known to use that for remote-tune-tweaking...
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Old Fri, Jul-06-2018, 04:56:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgizmo04 View Post
Assuming your tune is optimized for 91 or whatever is available in your area? Some tune it for 93 or above, so double check.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
92 fuel, tuned specifically for this fuel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geargrndr View Post
Interesting. Few thoughts...

Some believe that the "CFracecarairboxCSL!!!" gains are relatively BS / minimal. I know one tuner who is emphatic about that actually and thinks the CSL airboxes are a ridiculous waste of money. (they do look and sound awesome tho'.... ) so... are you sure your expects aren't too high?

In addition, I've seen some BTB tuning of various S54 cars and started to really believe in the (somewhat surprising) importance of big exhaust. There was one track rat car around here that made loads more power than it should, given its other (relative lack of) mods, and the one big difference was a massive exhaust. So maybe your OEM section 2 reversion is really hurting you?

Lastly, your 'base line' 325whp is, as you prob know, super strong. Thats a good number. Gonna be hard to beat that with less-exhaust + CF airbox... again... expectations...

I doubt your KS were bad BTW. And extremely doubt a bad DME. Esp when the car is otherwise making great power, just not quite as much as you're hoping for. These things are really robust little computers. I suppose the question about the vibration and the KS is valid maybe... But for that mod list a 320-325whp number seems roughly right to me?
Good feedback here. I mostly agree with you. I figured could be HP +10. There has been some talk of the OEM sec. 2 and the SS sec. 2 being roughly the same in regards to performance. So I sold it off and went back to OEM. Didn't back to back dyno test that though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tchleung View Post
I would swap the section 2 back in and go from there. It's almost the last step really to mimic true before and after results.

And is this the same tuner as you were before with factory air box...?
I plan on either a 3.5" single or 2.5" duel from the sec. 2 back, now that the car will be driven less on the streets and trailered to the track.

Same tuner and dyno for everything. Randy and Epic Motorsports.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geargrndr View Post
He said before he was on Epic tune, then given the reference of BMWLogger, I'm going to guess after maybe is TTFS since Frank is the dude who is most known to use that for remote-tune-tweaking...
Randy at Epic suggested we do 3rd gear pulls to evaluate the timing. That's the main thing that seems off at this point.
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Old Fri, Jul-06-2018, 06:28:59 PM   #7
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Do you know how much timing you are running?
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Old Sat, Jul-07-2018, 12:36:59 AM   #8
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 95bullet View Post
Do you know how much timing you are running?
I'll check when I get home tonight. I used BMWlogger on all my dyno runs.
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Old Sat, Jul-07-2018, 07:38:53 AM   #9
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

16 degrees climbing to 23 degrees between 3000-6000 RPM.

Then a drop.

16 degrees climbing to 20 degrees between 6000 - 8000 RPM.
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Old Sat, Jul-07-2018, 02:59:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?



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