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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Nov-06-2018, 06:21:43 PM   #211
Obioban
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Excellent update!

Looking forward to the final motion ratios for the rears and the sway bar dimensions, so I can start buying some springs and playing with this flat ride thing!
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Old Tue, Nov-06-2018, 08:38:43 PM   #212
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Will the motion ratio for a rear coil over be the same as for the rear shock?

If so, can you update/confirm that number as well?

Thanks


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Old Tue, Nov-06-2018, 08:54:50 PM   #213
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

so, i tried the flat ride set up on the track for the first time.
combo: full weight e46 m3 RHD
front: 6kg/mm springs, 30mm swaybar set at mid point (13.5" height)
rear: 11kg/mm springs, factory location (13" height)
wheels/tyres: 265/35/18 AD08R square set up

impressions:
car is inherently more stable, able to be thrown into corners with more abandon. i can throw it into a corner and predict what's gonna happen out the other side. as mentioned before, car behaves less nervously, and inspires me to push harder; something i was apprehensive of doing on the previous 9/11kg set up.
after a few laps the front started pushing (could be down to wrong pressures, shocks wearing out, too high up front, or potentially riding on bumpstops - which i doubt, but need to confirm in future) but couldn't do too much experimenting; in the 4th session the power steering gave up the ghost.
however, times have dropped from a previous pb of 1.45.5 to a 1.42.00.
i need to sort out the blown steering and also why the front pushed, but i reckon there's definitely more in it as is.
in all, very happy with the change.
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Old Wed, Nov-07-2018, 12:28:29 PM   #214
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

ShaikhA: how should gas force be accounted for on this spread sheet, if at all?

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 dude View Post
however, times have dropped from a previous pb of 1.45.5 to a 1.42.00.
That is a HUGE change!

Any other hardware changes? How many events have you done at this track?
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Old Wed, Nov-07-2018, 04:40:00 PM   #215
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Got back from 2 days at ToD, 500 miles of twisties.

I am one of those people that has a broken butt dyno, I can't feel small differences in power, weight, handling, etc. My M3 has received a few changes/upgrades.

- Rebuilt dampers(shouldn't make a difference since I know how they felt when new)
- Adjustable front sway bar links
- Monoball front and rear bushings(FCAB/RTAB)
- 265 tire(PS4S) instead of 275 StarSpec
- Flat ride(ish) spring rates. Went from 550/650 to 350/650
- Less toe-in at the back tires.
- ZCP steering rack

With these changes, the car is softer yet harsher. Softer front spring rate and PS4S tires but monoball front and rear bushings(Turner/Syncro Design). Overall I think its more comfortable to drive than before but, there is a 6 month gap between this drive and my July drive(old setup).

Now regarding the flat ride setup. I don't know if its the flat ride or other changes but the car now understeers less and it is much easier to drive with the rear end. When the rear slides, it is completely predictable. Because I trust the car more, I think the new setup is as fast, if not faster then the previous even though I have PS4S tires right now while the previous setup had the sticker StarSpecs.

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Engine: Status Gruppe SCZA exhaust
Exterior: Status Gruppe front valance
Brakes: Bimmerworld brake stiffener kit
Wheels: Apex ARC-8 18x9.5" W/ Michelin PS4S tires 265/35/18

Last edited by pawa_k2001; Wed, Nov-07-2018 at 04:43:50 PM.
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Old Wed, Nov-07-2018, 05:15:17 PM   #216
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Quote:
Originally Posted by pawa_k2001 View Post
Got back from 2 days at ToD, 500 miles of twisties.

I am one of those people that has a broken butt dyno, I can't feel small differences in power, weight, handling, etc. My M3 has received a few changes/upgrades.

- Rebuilt dampers(shouldn't make a difference since I know how they felt when new)
- Adjustable front sway bar links
- Monoball front and rear bushings(FCAB/RTAB)
- 265 tire(PS4S) instead of 275 StarSpec
- Flat ride(ish) spring rates. Went from 550/650 to 350/650
- Less toe-in at the back tires.
- ZCP steering rack

With these changes, the car is softer yet harsher. Softer front spring rate and PS4S tires but monoball front and rear bushings(Turner/Syncro Design). Overall I think its more comfortable to drive than before but, there is a 6 month gap between this drive and my July drive(old setup).

Now regarding the flat ride setup. I don't know if its the flat ride or other changes but the car now understeers less and it is much easier to drive with the rear end. When the rear slides, it is completely predictable. Because I trust the car more, I think the new setup is as fast, if not faster then the previous even though I have PS4S tires right now while the previous setup had the sticker StarSpecs.

Oh hey I saw you out there at Tougefest on ToD (at least driving the other way haha) would have loved to talked to you about your setup but never wound up on the same side. I definitely noticed when I was really getting after it with this s2k my car was quite pushy on corner exit. Interesting to hear your results of less understeer with a more flatride setup. I can't wait till I'm finished with all my current headaches and can properly tackle the suspension.
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2001 E46 M3 - Slicktop Manual Coupe - Alpine White on Imola Red

Engine: Karbonius CSL airbox, Lang Racing stage 2.5 head, Schrick 288/280 cams & followers, Lang Racing rod journal widening kit w/ CP 12:1 87.5mm pistons & Carrillo rods, Kassel CSL DME & MAP conversion, 36lb injectors, Hassan tuned, APE Flex fuel kit, TMS Power Pulleys, SS V1 stepped headers & catless section 1, SS 2.5” twin-piped resonated section 2, SGT scza section 3.
Drivetrain: DKM Stage 2 Clutch, E60 Shifter, RE trans mounts, Motorsport 4.10 R&P, Revshift 80A diff bushings.
Suspension/Brakes: Ohlins 3DM “track day” kit, RE strut bar, AKG RSM's, UUC front sway bar, BW camber arms, TMS monoball RTABs, ZCP rotors, BW solid caliper guide bushings, PFC 08's, Motorsport Hardware stud kit.
Interior: Cobra Nogaro seats, alcantara headliner, BMW Performance pedals, OE alcantara boots, mason clutch pedal, Xtrons 9" headunit w/ carplay

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Old Wed, Nov-07-2018, 07:21:35 PM   #217
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3 dude View Post
so, i tried the flat ride set up on the track for the first time.
combo: full weight e46 m3 RHD
front: 6kg/mm springs, 30mm swaybar set at mid point (13.5" height)
rear: 11kg/mm springs, factory location (13" height)
wheels/tyres: 265/35/18 AD08R square set up

impressions:
car is inherently more stable, able to be thrown into corners with more abandon. i can throw it into a corner and predict what's gonna happen out the other side. as mentioned before, car behaves less nervously, and inspires me to push harder; something i was apprehensive of doing on the previous 9/11kg set up.
after a few laps the front started pushing (could be down to wrong pressures, shocks wearing out, too high up front, or potentially riding on bumpstops - which i doubt, but need to confirm in future) but couldn't do too much experimenting; in the 4th session the power steering gave up the ghost.
however, times have dropped from a previous pb of 1.45.5 to a 1.42.00.
i need to sort out the blown steering and also why the front pushed, but i reckon there's definitely more in it as is.
in all, very happy with the change.
I have the same 30mm front bar and square set up, and ride height. But, doesn't the table specify 400lb/7kg Front and 700lb/12kg Rear and TCK coilovers when using a 30mm front ant sway bar?

I have TCK SA's ready to install. My rears springs are a little light at TCK brand 600lbs, I will be buying 7kg (~400lbs) Swift springs for my fronts. My TCK 500lb front springs will be for sale.
I run a 25mm rear bar. I may go back to the smaller OEM bar.
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Agency Power muffler , Ebay midpipe, Magnaflow resonators BREMBO GT BBK, Endless Racing brake pads , TC Kline SA Coilover (front) Swift 448lb springs, BC Racing coilover rears (for now), TMS front(30mm) and rear(25m) adjustable anti sway bars, AKG FCABS, TMS limiters on AKG RTABs, and powerflex subframe bushings, HPF AND TMS weld in Subframe kit, 10 hours of additional subframe Stitch welding above and beyond what's usually called for, CF trim interior and exterior clear coated by my guy with heavy duty UV protection, Vorsteiner CF rear diffuser, Strassentech type CF lip, Aurora Angel Eyes, DRL,HID Fogs 6k, Headlights HID 6k, D-Force racing wheels sandblasted and powder-coated semi-gloss black, Square set up 265/35-18, built-in Passport Escort 9500CI .. custom mount of controls in ash tray, , rareQuatro CF shock tower brace, Pioneer Avic Z3, BSW stg 1speakers, BSW sub
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Old Wed, Nov-07-2018, 07:28:01 PM   #218
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Quote:
Originally Posted by bosundave View Post
I have the same 30mm front bar and square set up, and ride height. But, doesn't the table specify 400lb/7kg Front and 700lb/12kg Rear and TCK coilovers when using a 30mm front ant sway bar?

I have TCK SA's ready to install. My rears springs are a little light at TCK brand 600lbs, I will be buying 7kg (~400lbs) Swift springs for my fronts. My TCK 500lb front springs will be for sale.
I run a 25mm rear bar. I may go back to the smaller OEM bar.
The table doesn't specify anything.

It does say that a TCK 400/700 setup is not flat ride and slightly understeery with a FRC of 79%.

Being an example on the table is not an endorsement-- just an example. Nor is it transferable from car to car-- especially you with a vert (rear heavy), which will effectively make the rear softer/lower frequency/less flat ride.

The purpose of the table is to enter the information (spring rates, weight, weight distro) for your car and see what your frequencies and roll couple are. The setups on there are just examples of what people run-- not suggestions.
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Old Wed, Nov-07-2018, 07:41:46 PM   #219
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike RT4 View Post
Hi Shaikh,
I couldn't see that you had added in the CSL info yet, so I thought I would give as much as I could.
Standard spring rates:
Front: 162
Rear: 443
Plugging in those rates, CSL sway specs, a weight of 3075 lbs (and "average" CSL-- somewhere between a stripper no AC, no stereo car and a more typical one), and a 170 lb driver, with 50/50 weight distro, it looks like the stock CSL had a ~1.24 flat ride ratio and a FRC of 72%.
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Old Wed, Nov-07-2018, 07:46:26 PM   #220
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Default Re: FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffn

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The table doesn't specify anything.

It does say that a TCK 400/700 setup is not flat ride and slightly understeery with a FRC of 79%.

Being an example on the table is not an endorsement-- just an example. Nor is it transferable from car to car-- especially you with a vert (rear heavy), which will effectively make the rear softer/lower frequency/less flat ride.

The purpose of the table is to enter the information (spring rates, weight, weight distro) for your car and see what your frequencies and roll couple are. The setups on there are just examples of what people run-- not suggestions.
Got it. I understand.

Even with getting rid of a some of weight by getting rid of the stock muffler(Agency Power muffler is current), I am sure that the car's rear is heavier. I really like to travel with my 35lb low profile alloy lightweight floor jack which does not help matters.

Would I benefit from 800lb rear springs? I am going to go with 400lb in front.
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I wasn't speeding...I was QUALIFYING!

Agency Power muffler , Ebay midpipe, Magnaflow resonators BREMBO GT BBK, Endless Racing brake pads , TC Kline SA Coilover (front) Swift 448lb springs, BC Racing coilover rears (for now), TMS front(30mm) and rear(25m) adjustable anti sway bars, AKG FCABS, TMS limiters on AKG RTABs, and powerflex subframe bushings, HPF AND TMS weld in Subframe kit, 10 hours of additional subframe Stitch welding above and beyond what's usually called for, CF trim interior and exterior clear coated by my guy with heavy duty UV protection, Vorsteiner CF rear diffuser, Strassentech type CF lip, Aurora Angel Eyes, DRL,HID Fogs 6k, Headlights HID 6k, D-Force racing wheels sandblasted and powder-coated semi-gloss black, Square set up 265/35-18, built-in Passport Escort 9500CI .. custom mount of controls in ash tray, , rareQuatro CF shock tower brace, Pioneer Avic Z3, BSW stg 1speakers, BSW sub

Last edited by bosundave; Wed, Nov-07-2018 at 07:51:29 PM.
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Discussing FCM E46 M3 Ride Harmonizer suspension spreadsheet (bounce freqs, FRC, roll stiffness) in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)