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E36 M3 (1992-1999) {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999


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Old Wed, May-02-2018, 01:38:53 AM   #41
westopher
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Default Re: Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

I imagine front corner splitters would deflect the air away from under the front wheels which helps keep the front planted. Wider front tires also probably helped that guy fight the understeer created by a big rear wing and no tray.
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Old Wed, May-02-2018, 02:20:22 AM   #42
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Default Re: Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

Maybe. I work in healthcare, aero/engineering/physics are a foreign language to me.

Pretty sure Iíve mentioned this before, but I donít plan to track the car more than once or twice (if I ever get around to reinforcing the weak points first). With factory spec camber up front, I know the car will understeer like hell. But I still want some downforce up front so that both front and rear end are planted and complement each other; I wouldnít want rear wing to plant the rear and have no front aero leading to very light front end.
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Old Wed, May-02-2018, 04:16:10 AM   #43
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Default Re: Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

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Originally Posted by Braymond141 View Post
Oh wait, he does run the splitters. BMW lists those as a necessary part to the Aero package. No tray though.

SQ, I assume you meant the tray.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...e-nurburgring/
I shot Alex's car last year actually lol. Was supposed to run in European Car Magazine (also, Carlos' cars...) but they closed the damn book.



Anyhow I talked to Alex about why he didn't run front aero and his opinion was that with the proper suspension setup it wasn't entirely needed. His car was on Dunlop DZ03G which are basically like R888 or NT01, and with heavy front camber, the car didn't understeer, period. The rear wing does help keep the back end planted in high speed corners, no doubt about that. Also his car has what, 80whp more than a standard US E36? So the wing really does have a place there.

Since the Nordschleife has 2 really long straights, and a number of other pretty long high speed sections, extra front downforce from a splitter and the associated added drag would have made him slower. Same reason why if you look at most GT3 cars who race VLN, you'll see they don't typically run the extra dive plane/canard setup there. Most all Ring prepped cars don't have heavy front downforce in fact. Different tracks require different setups...

BUT... Just a side note, if you are understeering around slow speed corners, it's a matter of dialing in alignment/bars/ride height/wheel and tire setup, but also just gonna say it, most of the time it's driver error more than the setup. The front end shouldn't ever feel loose at high speeds, if it does that means something is wrong with your car, or you're doing it wrong. High speed understeer is almost always because of driver error.

PS: if you wanna see more shots of Alex's car, here's the set. Thing's gnarly.. Sadly he sold it a few months ago but he's building an E92 with Team Schirmer, if you're not familiar, look them up...

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/08azny9r0...24pCTbqUa?dl=0
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Old Wed, May-02-2018, 04:21:29 AM   #44
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Default Re: Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

NICE. Thanks for the info.
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Old Wed, May-02-2018, 04:27:41 AM   #45
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Default Re: Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate047 View Post
Anyhow I talked to Alex about why he didn't run front aero and his opinion was that with the proper suspension setup it wasn't entirely needed. His car was on Dunlop DZ03G which are basically like R888 or NT01, and with heavy front camber, the car didn't understeer, period. The rear wing does help keep the back end planted in high speed corners, no doubt about that. Also his car has what, 80whp more than a standard US E36? So the wing really does have a place there.

Since the Nordschleife has 2 really long straights, and a number of other pretty long high speed sections, extra front downforce from a splitter and the associated added drag would have made him slower. Same reason why if you look at most GT3 cars who race VLN, you'll see they don't typically run the extra dive plane/canard setup there. Most all Ring prepped cars don't have heavy front downforce in fact. Different tracks require different setups...

BUT... Just a side note, if you are understeering around slow speed corners, it's a matter of dialing in alignment/bars/ride height/wheel and tire setup, but also just gonna say it, most of the time it's driver error more than the setup. The front end shouldn't ever feel loose at high speeds, if it does that means something is wrong with your car, or you're doing it wrong. High speed understeer is almost always because of driver error.
Stick to taking pictures.
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Old Wed, May-02-2018, 04:13:40 PM   #46
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Default Re: Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

Plenty of ways to skin a cat, try something else and see if it works for you.
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Old Wed, May-02-2018, 04:30:09 PM   #47
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Default Re: Best "Fake" LTW High Wing?

Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyseven View Post
Stick to taking pictures.
Shots fired lol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate047 View Post
Are you feeling loose in the rear end currently? (no homo lol)
I lol'd

Car is planted right now, but with my recent coaching combined with data analysis my speed has gone up significantly so I think aero is in the near future. Not going to do it until I'm "ready" though.


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Originally Posted by westopher View Post
The only thing that gets measured in my car is how much fun I'm having.
Words to live by TBH.

I think aero is all about balance, but I understand how one can use suspension to dial out understeer when not running any front aero.

However, there has to be a reason pro race teams run complimenting front/rear aero. They have bigger budgets for R&D and trophy winning set-ups that are proven so it's hard to argue with that.

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Quote:
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Are you feeling loose in the rear end currently?
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Discussing Best "Fake" LTW High Wing? in the E36 M3 (1992-1999) Forum - {Euro - S50 B32 321hp @ 7400 rpm} {U.S. - S52 B32 240 hp @ 6000 rpm}
Total Produced: 71,212 - Years Produced: 1992 to 1999 at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)