BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 03:23:35 PM   #1
HolyChitMeng
Alpine White Hoarder
 
HolyChitMeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,831
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 HolyChitMeng is on a distinguished road
Location: Westchester, NY

Philippines




Default Broken Vanos Tab

Hey guys, are there any noticeable symptoms of a Broken Exhaust Hub Tab? Or is it just something that you just have to check up on regularly and it could just happen at anytime?
__________________

AW/BLK 09' 6MT ///M3: ESS VT2-650, BBS LM, Stoptech Trophy, Evolve, Full Supersprint Race, KW Sleeve Kit
TIAG/IR 04' 6MT ///M3: BBS CH, Eibach Pro-Street-S, Full SS Race, Eventuri, Evolve, AS 30% SSK, OE CSL Bootlid
AW/BLK 95' ///M3: 16k miles, LTW Strut Brace
Jump to top HolyChitMeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 03:25:02 PM   #2
EricSMG
40 something
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,839
Reputation: 0 EricSMG is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

No sir. Where things change dramatically is when both tabs break as I've experienced first hand
__________________


'04 SG/Black 6MT || '04 JB/IR SMG
Jump to top EricSMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 03:28:18 PM   #3
Slowmobile
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Slowmobile is on a distinguished road
Location: Los Angeles

United States




Default Broken Vanos Tab

Fault codes? As Eric said usually only notice when both tabs break. But if one tab breaks and gets caught in the timing chain then you will hear something for sure.

Just get the oil pump disk drilled or the chromoly hub.
__________________
Legen... Wait For It... ///M
Jump to top Slowmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 03:35:57 PM   #4
HolyChitMeng
Alpine White Hoarder
 
HolyChitMeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,831
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 HolyChitMeng is on a distinguished road
Location: Westchester, NY

Philippines




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
No sir. Where things change dramatically is when both tabs break as I've experienced first hand
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
Fault codes? As Eric said usually only notice when both tabs break. But if one tab breaks and gets caught in the timing chain then you will hear something for sure.

Just get the oil pump disk drilled or the chromoly hub.
I'm guessing by a dramatic change the car suffers from a sudden loss of power?
Interesting, might have to go check it out. My valve adjustment has been done about 3k ago, apparently everything was in check, could anything catastrophic have happened to the tabs in that 3k? Does driving habits affect it aswell?
__________________

AW/BLK 09' 6MT ///M3: ESS VT2-650, BBS LM, Stoptech Trophy, Evolve, Full Supersprint Race, KW Sleeve Kit
TIAG/IR 04' 6MT ///M3: BBS CH, Eibach Pro-Street-S, Full SS Race, Eventuri, Evolve, AS 30% SSK, OE CSL Bootlid
AW/BLK 95' ///M3: 16k miles, LTW Strut Brace
Jump to top HolyChitMeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 03:57:59 PM   #5
ThunderMoose
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,421
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 ThunderMoose is on a distinguished road
Location: League City

United States




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

Have you done Beisan or Turbotoy upgrade to hub or oil pump?
__________________


#67 2017 NASA TX TT3 Champion

FLMS Half Cage, RaceTech 4009HR drivers seat, Schroth 6-Pt Harness, E.S.S. Fire System, AIM SOLO DL with ECU Harness, SmartyCam, Angle Aluminum with VAC dead pedal, Sparco Steering Wheel on MOMO hub, MCS Suspension, Hyperco 800F 900R springs, Hotchkis Front and Rear Sway bars, Vorshlag Camber Plates, Turner ARCA, AJ Hartman Front Splitter, BW V2 Wing, BW CF Rear Diffuser, APEX ARC-8 wheels, Brembo BBK Front, Carbon Fiber Roof, CF Headlight Blanks, Door Windows and Cards Delete, TMS rear and front subframe reinforcement, Zionsville Competition Cooler, BW Oil Cooler, Oil Diverter Valve, Motorsports Thermostat, Evolve CF Intake, Epic Stepped Headers, Turner Pulleys, BW 3.5" Race Exhaust, EPIC Alpha N Tune, Beisan Oil Disk and Vanos Seals, ZF 5MT, CAE Ultra Shifter

My track journal: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=509148
Jump to top ThunderMoose is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 04:10:02 PM   #6
nasieg
Registered User
 
nasieg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,781
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 nasieg is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyChitMeng View Post
I'm guessing by a dramatic change the car suffers from a sudden loss of power?
Interesting, might have to go check it out. My valve adjustment has been done about 3k ago, apparently everything was in check, could anything catastrophic have happened to the tabs in that 3k? Does driving habits affect it aswell?
It's one of those must do things on these engines. Basically BMW allowed slightly too much play between the tabs and the holes in the hub. Meaning the tabs can wiggle back and forth and over time they get fatigue and snap......at leas that is how I understood it.

The "play" is not much, just a few thousands of an inch (I forget the exact amount). So the fix is to get a Besian hub, which uses the same part, where they re-machined two new holes, 90 degree from the existing ones, but without any play in them. This is also why you have a core charge and need to send yours back, so they can use it for the next guy.

If you are lucky the tabs are still intact and you don't have to replace that part, or you will spend another $800 or so. The hardest part is to try to find someone that you trust to do it, unless you want to tackle it yourself. Besian has very well documented DIY, but I would not recommend doing it, if you are not familiar with working on cars. One mistake and it will cost you a lot more than you would save, which is really why I decided to have a pro do it.
__________________



My Journal

Besian VANOS, Euro Headers & Section1, TTFS tune, TMS under-dive pulleys, TC Kline S/A Coil Overs, Brembo 996 Calipers, ECS 2 Piece Rotors, Sportline CS8's, SG CSL Diffuser, OEM CSL Trunk
Jump to top nasieg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 04:13:58 PM   #7
EricSMG
40 something
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,839
Reputation: 0 EricSMG is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

Quote:
Originally Posted by HolyChitMeng View Post
I'm guessing by a dramatic change the car suffers from a sudden loss of power?
Interesting, might have to go check it out. My valve adjustment has been done about 3k ago, apparently everything was in check, could anything catastrophic have happened to the tabs in that 3k? Does driving habits affect it aswell?
If both tabs break then the cams are completely immobilized (locked) and the car goes into severe limp mode, massive misfires, rough idle, no power, etc. CEL immediately.

You KNOW right at that moment that the car needs to be shut down and diagnosed.

You really, really don't want this as the tab(s) can fall down the timing galley and cause severe damage.
__________________


'04 SG/Black 6MT || '04 JB/IR SMG
Jump to top EricSMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 04:21:49 PM   #8
HolyChitMeng
Alpine White Hoarder
 
HolyChitMeng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 2,831
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 HolyChitMeng is on a distinguished road
Location: Westchester, NY

Philippines




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThunderMoose View Post
Have you done Beisan or Turbotoy upgrade to hub or oil pump?
Not as of yet, but plan on doing the Beisan systems soon.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nasieg View Post
It's one of those must do things on these engines. Basically BMW allowed slightly too much play between the tabs and the holes in the hub. Meaning the tabs can wiggle back and forth and over time they get fatigue and snap......at leas that is how I understood it.

The "play" is not much, just a few thousands of an inch (I forget the exact amount). So the fix is to get a Besian hub, which uses the same part, where they re-machined two new holes, 90 degree from the existing ones, but without any play in them. This is also why you have a core charge and need to send yours back, so they can use it for the next guy.

If you are lucky the tabs are still intact and you don't have to replace that part, or you will spend another $800 or so. The hardest part is to try to find someone that you trust to do it, unless you want to tackle it yourself. Besian has very well documented DIY, but I would not recommend doing it, if you are not familiar with working on cars. One mistake and it will cost you a lot more than you would save, which is really why I decided to have a pro do it.
Thanks for the clarification! I'm gonna check it out as soon as I can. Some of the things on this car frighten me severely. I diy everything, so I hope I can tackle it. Just wanted to know if there were symptoms of it so I know what to look out for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
If both tabs break then the cams are completely immobilized (locked) and the car goes into severe limp mode, massive misfires, rough idle, no power, etc. CEL immediately.

You KNOW right at that moment that the car needs to be shut down and diagnosed.

You really, really don't want this as the tab(s) can fall down the timing galley and cause severe damage.
That sounds absolutely terrible. How does one get the tabs out after they fall down the timing galley?
It sorta just happened to you out of the blue? No noises or rattles?
__________________

AW/BLK 09' 6MT ///M3: ESS VT2-650, BBS LM, Stoptech Trophy, Evolve, Full Supersprint Race, KW Sleeve Kit
TIAG/IR 04' 6MT ///M3: BBS CH, Eibach Pro-Street-S, Full SS Race, Eventuri, Evolve, AS 30% SSK, OE CSL Bootlid
AW/BLK 95' ///M3: 16k miles, LTW Strut Brace
Jump to top HolyChitMeng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 06:05:22 PM   #9
basketball00011
Registered User
 
basketball00011's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 101
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 basketball00011 is on a distinguished road
Location: Fond du Lac

United States




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

I decided to start on my winter maintenance yesterday, just because I know these engines have issues and this is what I found. Broken tab. No warnings, nothing. Car sounded quiet, no codes. 76k miles. TurboHub for me.



Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Jump to top basketball00011 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Feb-11-2017, 06:18:00 PM   #10
m3vos
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Reputation: 0 m3vos is on a distinguished road
Location: Houston

United States




Default Re: Broken Vanos Tab

I need to inspect mine, but I wanted to know, if your tabs are intact, is all you need to do the Besian VANOS rebuild? If the stock exhaust cam tabs are there, is it safe to leave that alone?
Jump to top m3vos is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:53:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing Broken Vanos Tab in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)