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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 04:39:56 PM   #1
E46LIFE
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Default supercharger or NA

Not that im planning on anything soon at all, but i and proabably most of us have dreamed about the perfect NA build, cams, BBTB, ported head, bigger valves, valve springs, velocity stacks for the cool factor, and some other crazy shit, and im wondering what everyone thinks, is it worth taking the time to make something crazy like that (money aside thats not the question right now, i know its gobs more expensive to do a massive NA build like that) or would i be better off just getting a supercharger ans spending my time making other changes and upgrades. Also would a superchager be more reliable in the end? less internal engine work and what not? also im not shooting for any particular power number i just like doing mods to make the car better.
Thanks gents!
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 04:44:24 PM   #2
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

I do not have any experience with a supercharger setup but currently looking into that or a turbo setup for the S54 after going the N/A route. I currently have a mild build using velocity stacks and while they provide a nice sound, you need to worry about supporting mods to compensate for the massive loss of torque that does make a difference in drivability compared to a stock S54.


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S54/6 speed, FluidMotorUnion velocity stacks, CSL cams, Swaintech coated headers, Mishimoto radiator, Alpha N tune, 4.10 diff, M3 suspension, Turner Motorsport subframe reinforcement, CSL brakes, 2.5" SS304 Rhom Innovations exhaust.

E46 touring, Version 2
S54/6 speed, polished FluidMotorUnion velocity stacks, CSL cams, Swaintech coated headers, Mishimoto radiator-Mishimoto radiator hoses-Mishimoto electric fan, Alpha N tune, 4.10 diff and RevShift bushings, RTD mini V2 shifter and DSSR, Airlift Performance 3H suspension, Rogue Engineering RaceBrace strut bar, Turner Motorsport subframe reinforcement, PLM SM-AFR wideband, Eonon GA7150A with front and rear cameras, Work Brombachers, Storm Motorwerks interior pieces, CSL brakes and 996 calipers, 2.5" SS304 Rhom Innovations exhaust, Bimmerworld Race diffuser. M3 bodywork and paint.
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 04:52:58 PM   #3
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Jones View Post
I do not have any experience with a supercharger setup but currently looking into that or a turbo setup for the S54 after going the N/A route. I currently have a mild build using velocity stacks and while they provide a nice sound, you need to worry about supporting mods to compensate for the massive loss of torque that does make a difference in drivability compared to a stock S54.


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ooooo, i hadnt even thought of that!! so even with all that it still feels lacking to you?
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 04:55:13 PM   #4
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

N.A. rules. You don't need most of the stuff u mentioned. Including porting and valves. Velocity stacks ? The car already has stacks shrouded in an airbox. Do it right and get the csl box with the money u save on the headwork. It has a great flowing head from factory. Here's what U need:
Cams
Airbox
2.5 inch exhaust front to back .
Good tuner
Donzo
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Custom exhaust thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=569086
Cams thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=554439
Custom cf airbox thread http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=595180
Why not to use after market bearings with surfacetreatments and /or increased clearance
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...4&postcount=10
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 04:55:50 PM   #5
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

I spoke to two different people about this (going the NA route) and both of them gave me quotes in the realm of 13K (FMH) to 25K (Carbahn) for a 3.4/5 stroker kit producing approximately 450-475 crank hp. The first person I spoke to a few months ago was Chris Fletcher from FMH and he was very patient and gave me a realistic breakdown of expectations/cost. The second was someone from the new Steve Dinan creation (Carbahn) and they actually suggested instead of a stroker, just do a rebuilt with cams, intake, exhaust and that would put me at around 400 but with much less torque than the stroker kit. Carbahn said their stroker is suited for a car being used primarily for track days while Chris said he could build a very streetable motor. That's a lot of coin though
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 05:02:08 PM   #6
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

I plan to either do what Hassan mentioned (cams, airbox, exhaust (done), and tune) or buy a built engine from lang racing and do a turbo. Idk why but I don't feel like messing around with superchargers, I'm sure if I drove an SC'ed S54 I would love it though lol. Likely I will do the full NA bolt on thing and go turbo only if I find myself rich enough to do so

Something about a turbo S54 is alluring... like a poor man's F40 or something
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 05:04:02 PM   #7
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Default supercharger or NA

Quote:
Originally Posted by E46LIFE View Post
ooooo, i hadnt even thought of that!! so even with all that it still feels lacking to you?
It could definitely be a bit better which is why i have a CSL box on the way. I have a 4.10 diff to compensate for the loss in torque which helps so i'm hoping that adding the CSL box and high flow cats compared to currently running no cats can help bring my torque back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
N.A. rules. You don't need most of the stuff u mentioned. Including porting and valves. Velocity stacks ? The car already has stacks shrouded in an airbox. Do it right and get the csl box with the money u save on the headwork. It has a great flowing head from factory. Here's what U need:
Cams
Airbox
2.5 inch exhaust front to back .
Good tuner
Donzo
Perfect list for a nice N/A setup, Hassan. I can't wait to replace my velocity stacks with the CSL airbox, already have the headers and 2.5" exhaust, doing the VANOS soon, and hoping to find a good tuner to make that all come together.



at the end of the day, if money is no option and you like a fast car that's fairly reliable then i would look at the current supercharger setups on the market unless you can ship your car to Max PSI in NJ for one of their nice turbo kits.
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S54/6 speed, FluidMotorUnion velocity stacks, CSL cams, Swaintech coated headers, Mishimoto radiator, Alpha N tune, 4.10 diff, M3 suspension, Turner Motorsport subframe reinforcement, CSL brakes, 2.5" SS304 Rhom Innovations exhaust.

E46 touring, Version 2
S54/6 speed, polished FluidMotorUnion velocity stacks, CSL cams, Swaintech coated headers, Mishimoto radiator-Mishimoto radiator hoses-Mishimoto electric fan, Alpha N tune, 4.10 diff and RevShift bushings, RTD mini V2 shifter and DSSR, Airlift Performance 3H suspension, Rogue Engineering RaceBrace strut bar, Turner Motorsport subframe reinforcement, PLM SM-AFR wideband, Eonon GA7150A with front and rear cameras, Work Brombachers, Storm Motorwerks interior pieces, CSL brakes and 996 calipers, 2.5" SS304 Rhom Innovations exhaust, Bimmerworld Race diffuser. M3 bodywork and paint.
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 05:57:06 PM   #8
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Acqui View Post
I spoke to two different people about this (going the NA route) and both of them gave me quotes in the realm of 13K (FMH) to 25K (Carbahn) for a 3.4/5 stroker kit producing approximately 450-475 crank hp. The first person I spoke to a few months ago was Chris Fletcher from FMH and he was very patient and gave me a realistic breakdown of expectations/cost. The second was someone from the new Steve Dinan creation (Carbahn) and they actually suggested instead of a stroker, just do a rebuilt with cams, intake, exhaust and that would put me at around 400 but with much less torque than the stroker kit. Carbahn said their stroker is suited for a car being used primarily for track days while Chris said he could build a very streetable motor. That's a lot of coin though
Chris at FMH also suggests if you turbo the car to do no more than 5-7lbs of boost if tracking it. With HP figures around 450-500
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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 06:12:08 PM   #9
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cronenberged View Post
Chris at FMH also suggests if you turbo the car to do no more than 5-7lbs of boost if tracking it. With HP figures around 450-500
I was thinking if supercharged one of the low level kits like the vf 430 or ess whichever had the 430 kit but with a intercooler, I don't want to put to much stress on the engine with boost especially

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Old Mon, Aug-27-2018, 06:27:05 PM   #10
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Default Re: supercharger or NA

I got the same debate in my head but my goal is power to reach either as close to 400whp NA or as close to 500whp supercharged..


Now if you take account the cost of both builds and you want more power, SC will provide a better value for your dollar. as the cost of doing a full NA build is quite high and the power you get out of it is not that much, CSL intake, 288/280 cams, Headers/exhaust + tune can run you to around 5-7k depending which headers/exhaust set-up you get and if you do go the supersprint route which is like the gold standard for exhaust for the s54 its probably more than 7k for a full exhaust package and that's w/ you doing all the labor not to mention you need a tune, let's say you go w/ TTFS tune w/ custom remote tune that's around $1.6k if I remember it right? And let's add the AFD e85 kit since it seems to be a great product that can net you another 30whp or so. Guessing if Hassan has the AFD kit he may reach around 380-390whp NA which is pretty darn crazy.


now let's say 8k w/ supersprint exhaust for NA, w/ that money you can get ESS 525 kit and get about 450 to the wheels on their stock tune or get a custom tune from TTFS and get more out of it and be more efficient.



To be honest I am really torn between the two. Hassan's build w/ custom tune netting 364whp is really good I wish he would try getting the AFD e85 kit to see just how much he can get w/ it.

But that supercharger power to cost ratio is really attractive. And since its plug-and-play its easy to reverse compared to the full on NA build.
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Discussing SMG troubleshooting FAQ in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)