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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 03:43:14 PM   #11
Obioban
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

Either way, those s62 separators are worse than the S54's stock one-- they require routine maintenance or replacement (I've cleaned both of them once on my M5, and replaced both of them once). Plus it makes for uglier piping, additional cost, complexity, weight.
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 04:14:26 PM   #12
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewster View Post
They still need to vent crankcase pressure somehow

http://vsetrack.com/track_reports/20..._separator.htm
In a dry sump, crankcase gasses are usually sucked out by the scavenge pumps and the vent usually is from the oil tank.

Maybe some rules prevent the use of a dry sump?
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 04:19:36 PM   #13
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

GM's chief powertrain engineer on why no catch cans:

Quote:
To answer the second question first: No, the 2017 Corvette LT1 will not have the Camaro V8 PCV air/oil separator (what the questioner calls a "catch can") added to its oil management system. For those not familiar with the abbreviation PCV, it stands for "positive crankcase ventilation"

Even though the Corvette and Camaro share the LT1, they are very different in execution detail. The LT1 in the Corvette sits lower and very close to the ground to enable an industry-leading low profile hood and good sight lines despite a very low seated position. Having the engine close to the ground is great for keeping the vehicle's center of gravity down, but means the oil pan is relatively shallow. Having little depth in the oil pan means it is very challenging to scavenge oil in high G loading conditions. For this reason we add dry sump lubrication to our high performance models. The Camaro's higher engine position allows for a deeper oil pan and a reliable configuration for picking up oil for delivery to all parts of the engine. Thus the Camaro is able to avoid the cost and mass of the dry sump tank and resulting complexity of the lube system.

The Corvette's dry sump tank looks relatively simple on the outside but the internals are really quite complex. The top third of the tank contains a PCV air/oil separation system. On the Corvette, PCV lines route from the valve covers to the air/oil separator on top of our dry sump tank. Oil from PCV air is separated and returned to the lube system through the oil tank. The PCV separation system on Camaro V8 performs a similar function except oil is returned to the engine oil pan from the PCV separator's drain back tube. The Camaro V8 PCV air/oil separator is more complex than a "catch-can" since it not only separates oil from PCV air it provides a drain back path for this oil to be reused by the lube system. "Catch-can" systems that do not have a drain back path for separated oil run the risk of poor oil pressure performance over time as oil is removed from the lube system.

The bottom line is that both cars use optimized engineering solutions for their lube systems based on vehicle architectural considerations.
^the s54's stock system is like that of the Camaro above.

I have no desire for a catch can. The stuff people are draining is re-condensed oil vapor (which I want, as that reclaimed engine oil) and re-condensed water vapor-- which burns off when it is in your oil, assuming you get your car fully up to operating temp.

Catch cans all look clunky to me (Vince's looks the least clunky), add weight/complexity, require more upkeep, and I don't see a benefit over the factory oil separator.
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Last edited by Obioban; Tue, Nov-14-2017 at 08:29:04 PM.
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 04:34:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

What I'm pulling out of the catch can smells like fuel, and that's with a brand new stock oil separator. It would have gone in the intake otherwise. It's probably engine dependent and related to type of use - mine likely has a lot more blow by.
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 04:48:25 PM   #15
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

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Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
What I'm pulling out of the catch can smells like fuel, and that's with a brand new stock oil separator. It would have gone in the intake otherwise. It's probably engine dependent and related to type of use - mine likely has a lot more blow by.
And in a port injected car it'll either get burned off or washed off with the injectors. Direct injected cars are the only ones (IMO) where you'd really care about going out of your way to get that crap out of the intake (since there's no fuel to wash it off)
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 05:00:11 PM   #16
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

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Originally Posted by CrookedCommie View Post
What I'm pulling out of the catch can smells like fuel, and that's with a brand new stock oil separator. It would have gone in the intake otherwise. It's probably engine dependent and related to type of use - mine likely has a lot more blow by.
Super easy to tell if you have too much fuel in your oil via oil analysis.

But, if I did, I'd be more inclined to go after the problem than the symptom...
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 05:08:13 PM   #17
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Super easy to tell if you have too much fuel in your oil via oil analysis.

But, if I did, I'd be more inclined to go after the problem than the symptom...
Yep, oil had trace fuel in it before the catch can (haven't pulled an oil sample yet post catch can). I agree with you on going after the problem, but this engine won't be getting new piston rings until it gets pulled and rebuilt as a backup.
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 05:31:47 PM   #18
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

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Originally Posted by Cristov9000 View Post
In a dry sump, crankcase gasses are usually sucked out by the scavenge pumps and the vent usually is from the oil tank.

Maybe some rules prevent the use of a dry sump?

Ah, yeah I was thinking of the GM "Dry sump" which is really more of a relocated oil reservoir than a racing dry sump.

I'd imagine you're right and they probably didn't use a dry sump on the P54
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 08:12:55 PM   #19
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
GM's chief powertrain engineer on why no catch cans:


^the s54's stock system is like that of the Camaro above.

I have no desire for a catch can. The stuff people are draining is re-condensed oil vapor (which I want, as that reclaimed engine oil) and re-condensed water vapor-- which burns off when it is in your oil, assuming you get your car fully up to operating temp.

Oil separators all look clunky to me (Vince's looks the least clunky), add weight/complexity, require more upkeep, and I don't see a benefit over the factory oil separator.
This makes perfect sense to me and raises the question of why so many people feel the need to add a 'catch can' when doing the CSL Airbox conversion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drewster View Post
Ah, yeah I was thinking of the GM "Dry sump" which is really more of a relocated oil reservoir than a racing dry sump.

I'd imagine you're right and they probably didn't use a dry sump on the P54
From my understanding, the P54 DID use a dry-sump.
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Old Tue, Nov-14-2017, 09:50:55 PM   #20
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Default Re: P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it?

Also bear in mind the Z4 had a larger engine bay. EDIT: forgot the P54 was also used in M3.

Visually assuming it may not fit between the airbox and E46 firewall (or at least a road car with everything in place). Gutted racecar maybe but then it begs the question why bother...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post

I have no desire for a catch can. The stuff people are draining is re-condensed oil vapor (which I want, as that reclaimed engine oil) and re-condensed water vapor-- which burns off when it is in your oil, assuming you get your car fully up to operating temp.

Catch cans all look clunky to me (Vince's looks the least clunky), add weight/complexity, require more upkeep, and I don't see a benefit over the factory oil separator.
Same here. Converted to one on my Turbo E36 out of 'necessity', but have since switched back to a modified factory separator. The catch can isn't worth the compromises.
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Last edited by twentyseven; Tue, Nov-14-2017 at 09:55:00 PM.
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Discussing P54B32 Airbox Oil Separator - Who has info on it? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)