BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 06:33:25 AM   #11
m3 hal
Registered User
 
m3 hal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 21,308
Reputation: 0 m3 hal will become famous soon enough

United States




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
What makes OE (and HJS) special compared to the other aftermarket options out there is the platinum content. Something like a 5-10x difference compared to the magnaflow cats you'll find in most solution. OE cats can go strong for 300k+ miles, while the magnaflow cats will probably last closer to 30k.
HJS also has a stronger substrate due to the twisted design. It looks way more precisely manufactured than the Magnaflow 200 cell next to it:

Jump to top m3 hal is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 01:30:14 PM   #12
bmw m3 s50
Why So Serious ? :}
 
bmw m3 s50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,638
Reputation: 0 bmw m3 s50 is on a distinguished road
Location: PA

Portugal




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
All the OE cats are 200 cell. Euro and CSL are located in section 1. CSL cats are marginally lighter. The cell density is easily verified just by looking at the actual catalyst material. I don't know the cell density of the SuperSprint HJS cats (I think HJS generally makes 200 cell cats though).

BMW cats aren't made by HJS. But HJS cats may very well be made by the same supplier of the OE cats.

What makes OE (and HJS) special compared to the other aftermarket options out there is the platinum content. Something like a 5-10x difference compared to the magnaflow cats you'll find in most solution. OE cats can go strong for 300k+ miles, while the magnaflow cats will probably last closer to 30k.
I think you might be right where the actual manufacturer or the cats might done be HJS, but HJS sources from the same place of OE BMW.

The swirl pattern and materials is the same between the HJS and OE BMW giving them longer life.

Has anyone cut open the cats of the Euro and USA to actually determine that the cell count is the same?
Jump to top bmw m3 s50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 01:33:57 PM   #13
mpower22
CPV O-Ring Guy
 
mpower22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Age: 36
Posts: 3,459
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mpower22 is on a distinguished road
Location: Maryland

United States




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

This topic was already covered and answered in 2010:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=333717

US Cats: 400 CPI
Euro/CSL: 200 CPI
__________________
///M3 - Dream Car: Acquired
15-Year Member

2003 M3Laguna Seca Blue/6MT/Black Leather Cloth Interior/Full [CSL] Exhaust/evolve-R
Original Owner, Custom Built - PDC, Moonroof, Bi-xenons (TFX), Brushed Aluminum Trim, Bluetooth ULF
European - Rotors (F&R), Bumper, Mirrors, Warning Triangle, Console, LSZ, First Aid Kit, Fire Extinguisher
OE LED Conversion/Outer Ring Mod | V1 Hardwired/Ashtray Display | 3M 35% Tint | Intravee II, Diamond H600s, JL 10W3v3, HD900/5
Jump to top mpower22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 01:36:40 PM   #14
Obioban
Moderator
 
Obioban's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 34,041
In the garage:
Reputation: 54 Obioban has a spectacular aura about
Location: SE PA

United States




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
All the OE cats are 200 cell. Euro and CSL are located in section 1. CSL cats are marginally lighter. The cell density is easily verified just by looking at the actual catalyst material. I don't know the cell density of the SuperSprint HJS cats (I think HJS generally makes 200 cell cats though).

BMW cats aren't made by HJS. But HJS cats may very well be made by the same supplier of the OE cats.

What makes OE (and HJS) special compared to the other aftermarket options out there is the platinum content. Something like a 5-10x difference compared to the magnaflow cats you'll find in most solution. OE cats can go strong for 300k+ miles, while the magnaflow cats will probably last closer to 30k.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower22 View Post
This topic was already covered and answered in 2010:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=333717

US Cats: 400 CPI
Euro/CSL: 200 CPI
Same question, different answers
__________________

Current Cars: 2005 IR/IR M3, 2001 LMB/blk M5, Wife's 6mt NA RWD e91, 04 M3 wagon
Past cars: 04 M3, 96 M3, S50B32 e36 M3 CM race car
Jump to top Obioban is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 01:39:40 PM   #15
bmw m3 s50
Why So Serious ? :}
 
bmw m3 s50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,638
Reputation: 0 bmw m3 s50 is on a distinguished road
Location: PA

Portugal




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by icecream View Post
Proximity to headers especially at that point where the exhaust collects I would imagine makes a big difference. The exhaust further down is cooler and probably flows smoother and passes the cat easier if I had to guess.
If they are the same cell count which I still doubt then I may just cuts the cats off the headers and relocate to section one after my header install. Why not eh?
Exactly, any exhaust shop would be able to do it but my doubts are the USA cats having a higher cell count since the USA emissions laws are one of the strictest in the world compared to Europe ( well at least in the early 2000's now that might have changed )

While I understand the concept of moving the cats downstream will have benefits of freeing up exhaust flow at the headers and collectors, but the result is that the air quality would be cleaner with a higher cell count.

My understanding why BMW placed the cats in the headers for USA cars was due to cold start emissions since I assume the car is running richer when the car us cold, but it wouldn't account for the final air quality coming out of the muffler. Only the catalytic process would be responsible for the final air quality.

Last edited by bmw m3 s50; Fri, Nov-10-2017 at 01:42:55 PM.
Jump to top bmw m3 s50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 01:41:31 PM   #16
bmw m3 s50
Why So Serious ? :}
 
bmw m3 s50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,638
Reputation: 0 bmw m3 s50 is on a distinguished road
Location: PA

Portugal




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Same question, different answers
EXACTLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you Ian I knew that I wasn't crazy.
Jump to top bmw m3 s50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 01:45:55 PM   #17
mpower22
CPV O-Ring Guy
 
mpower22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Age: 36
Posts: 3,459
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mpower22 is on a distinguished road
Location: Maryland

United States




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Same question, different answers
Yes, there are pics of cut open sections in that thread as well, but some of them are missing. It was confirmed though through various people taking actual measurements of the CPI.
__________________
///M3 - Dream Car: Acquired
15-Year Member

2003 M3Laguna Seca Blue/6MT/Black Leather Cloth Interior/Full [CSL] Exhaust/evolve-R
Original Owner, Custom Built - PDC, Moonroof, Bi-xenons (TFX), Brushed Aluminum Trim, Bluetooth ULF
European - Rotors (F&R), Bumper, Mirrors, Warning Triangle, Console, LSZ, First Aid Kit, Fire Extinguisher
OE LED Conversion/Outer Ring Mod | V1 Hardwired/Ashtray Display | 3M 35% Tint | Intravee II, Diamond H600s, JL 10W3v3, HD900/5
Jump to top mpower22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 02:07:18 PM   #18
bmw m3 s50
Why So Serious ? :}
 
bmw m3 s50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,638
Reputation: 0 bmw m3 s50 is on a distinguished road
Location: PA

Portugal




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by mpower22 View Post
Yes, there are pics of cut open sections in that thread as well, but some of them are missing. It was confirmed though through various people taking actual measurements of the CPI.
So in that thread you state on page 3 at the top is a cut open USA cat and at the bottom of thread there a pic of the euro cat. The pic up at the top shows more cells then the bottom, I guess confirming that USA cats are 400 cell over the 200 cell euro cats?
Jump to top bmw m3 s50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 02:09:30 PM   #19
mpower22
CPV O-Ring Guy
 
mpower22's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Age: 36
Posts: 3,459
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mpower22 is on a distinguished road
Location: Maryland

United States




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw m3 s50 View Post
So in that thread you state on page 3 at the top is a cut open USA cat and at the bottom of thread there a pic of the euro cat. The pic up at the top shows more cells then the bottom, I guess confirming that USA cats are 400 cell over the 200 cell euro cats?
Yes, that is correct and part of the research I had done as well because this had been an issue for such a long time on here. It was good to finally get it answered without all the guessing that goes on. Basically what I was looking for was "proof in the pictures".
__________________
///M3 - Dream Car: Acquired
15-Year Member

2003 M3Laguna Seca Blue/6MT/Black Leather Cloth Interior/Full [CSL] Exhaust/evolve-R
Original Owner, Custom Built - PDC, Moonroof, Bi-xenons (TFX), Brushed Aluminum Trim, Bluetooth ULF
European - Rotors (F&R), Bumper, Mirrors, Warning Triangle, Console, LSZ, First Aid Kit, Fire Extinguisher
OE LED Conversion/Outer Ring Mod | V1 Hardwired/Ashtray Display | 3M 35% Tint | Intravee II, Diamond H600s, JL 10W3v3, HD900/5
Jump to top mpower22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Nov-10-2017, 02:13:11 PM   #20
bmw m3 s50
Why So Serious ? :}
 
bmw m3 s50's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,638
Reputation: 0 bmw m3 s50 is on a distinguished road
Location: PA

Portugal




Default Re: OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats

Assuming due to the higher CPI in the USA count even if they are moved further down stream, they would still be restrictive due to the CPI count? Leading to loss of power?

Do you believe that the OEM cats removed further down in a high horsepower application such as with a supercharger would hold up over time?
Jump to top bmw m3 s50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 09:50:40 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing OEM cats vs Euro Cats vs CSL Cats vs ALL other cats in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)