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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


View Poll Results: Please ONLY VOTE if you sincerely plan to participate. No dreamers.
I am interested in an FRP CSL Front Bumper 51 61.45%
I am interested in a Fully CF CSL Front Bumper 32 38.55%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 08:54:37 PM   #31
Dr M3an M3
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Lets try to keep this thread on track, please. If you want something from SGT, please feel free to purchase from them instead.

To all the people asking about 1-piece lips. If it fits the OE CSL bumper, than it will fit this bumper. This is an exact replica of the OE bumper. So if you bought a CSL bumper from BMW, what ever one-piece lip you would order for that, will work for this. All I was saying is that Streamline Aerodynamics has not yet started their own project for a one-piece lip. Just like for the CF spitters, you can use their replacements or you can use any others that would fit an OE bumper. The same applies to the 1-piece lips.

I reached out to Streamline Aero about some of the questions that have come up, and they have been very quick to answer. I will be listing their reply below.

Regarding the strength of their bumpers, Carbon Fiber vs FRP, weight, and the mounting mechanism:

Quote:
1. Strength of bumper compared to OEM...

FRP Type S is actually a stronger material in terms of strength than carbon fiber... A lot stronger to be honest. Carbon is not stronger, it is stiffer as a material which is a great and very misunderstood difference. A lot of these qualities are changed depending on the resin used and reinforcements. We reinforce our bumpers at multiple points and actually, I do believe our FRP items feel sometimes more solid than the carbon ones, but are heavier because of that. Due to the stiffness of carbon we can use a thinner material at unbraced places etc. The good part about the bumper is that it has multiple angles meaning it is braced everywhere. Not only that but we fill the whole front attachment brace with material as you see on the photos which actually makes it stiffer and harder than the same brace made from Carbon. Not only that, we reinforce it with thin aluminum inside as well. There is NO structural difference therefore between our FRP and Carbon bumpers, so this should not worry the buyer. The only real difference is - Carbon is lighter and the OE is carbon - because it is lighter. FRP will be a bit heavier, although yesterday our bumper came out to be a bit more than 5kg with the brace - which is basically nothing really. A carbon bumper will be about half that.

None of that matters however because the front bumper of the vehicle is meant to break during a crash. The idea is that if it is a high speed crash the whole car has to buckle arround the chassis so that the people inside are safe. If the components are too hard to break this will distort the chassis because then the vibrations will travel into it, whereas their job is to break which will lower the vibrations traveling into the actual chassis - if that makes sense. Actually my kevlar bumper carrier and bumper we found was broken when I bought the car. Supposedly it had a very low speed crash with a big trash-can - so imagine how brittle the components actually are.

P.S. Many of the vehicles in the USA come out of the factory with all body panels made from FRP - CR comes to mind ��.

2. We do have OEM style Fenders ready (without the vents). We already are making the 5 pre-ordered sets! ��

3. The bumper carriers can be sourced from any e46 model, they do not need to be bought brand new. Actually they can be sourced from 316i - 330i all models have them as you can see here:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/enUS/part...297&series=E46

The great thing about this is that a lot of the investment can be then sourced back because the m3 owners can sell their kevlar bar with the bumper for whatever sum ( to non m3 owners, if they so choose. This is instead of having a useless bumper left over, assuming they don't want to keep it stored away. we sourced our mounting mech (front bumper shock absorbers) from a 320i, instead of buying a new one. It costed us $15.
Final mounting pictures should be available any day now. I will post them as soon as I have them.

I will find out about the possibility of them molding the inside to use the kevlar support bar. Their intention with this project was to provide an exact copy of the CSL bumper, which they have done.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
This is the case for me as well. I, too, am not willing to give up a functional bumper for a mostly cosmetic mod.

I want 100% OE CSL exterior shape (can't stand the chipmunk versions), the OE tow hook hole, compatibility with OE CSL airbox ducting, compatibility with OE splitters or similar, and direct mounting to the factory carbon carrier.

If they really want a differentiated CSL bumper, carbon carrier support is the way to do it.

Shouldn't be overly difficult to do-- just make the interior upper structure using a mold of a later OE non CSL bumper.
All things bolded in red are consistent with this front bumper. This bumper has the OE CSL exterior shape, NO Chipmunk cheeks, The toe-hook hole will be functional (and you reuse the OE toe-hook cover), it will be compatible with the OE CSL airbox ducting, and is compatible with OE splitters or any other splitter/front lip that is compatible to the OE CSL front bumper. The only thing this bumper does not incorporate is the kevlar or aluminum carrier. It uses the same carrier design and mounting system found on an authentic OE CSL bumper. I can find out if its possible to incorporate the kevlar carrier, but it seems like BMW designed it this way purposefully for the CSL bumper. These guys just followed that exact design.

Thanks for all the comments guys!
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Last edited by Dr M3an M3; Wed, Apr-05-2017 at 09:08:09 PM.
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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 09:43:22 PM   #32
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

The bumper (not the cover) is designed to transfer the load of a crash into the frame rails, which deforms in very intentional way to minimize the impact force on the occupants.

It is not just a bumper cover holder that is supposed to shatter in a crash.

I trust BMW to build a crash structure into a bumper (oe csl). I don't trust the aftermarket to do the same-- especially a company claiming a bumper is not a safety feature...
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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 09:50:32 PM   #33
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The bumper (not the cover) is designed to transfer the load of a crash into the frame rails, which deforms in very intentional way to minimize the impact force on the occupants.

It is not just a bumper cover holder that is supposed to shatter in a crash.

I trust BMW to build a crash structure into a bumper (oe csl). I don't trust the aftermarket to do the same-- especially a company claiming a bumper is not a safety feature...
+100. There's a lot more to making a crash structure than making a mold of the original piece and making a replica. Regarding his comment about whole cars being made of CF - there's a lot more to engineering than choosing a material.

No way in hell I'd trust the aftermarket to properly engineer a safety item.
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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 09:58:36 PM   #34
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

This would be true of every aftermarket bumper right? Yet many people still buy VCSL, SGT, et al. There'd be enough people still interested in this GB I'd imagine. I'm not comfortable either, personally, but I don't think the expectation should be that Streamline make a safety item, but aftermarket aesthetic aero.

I mean, people weren't posting these concerns in all the other aftermarket front bumper threads that have existed over the years - what's different now?
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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 10:18:23 PM   #35
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Great to see another high quality replica being available at a reasonable price.

It's worth mentioning that some parts of your OEM bumper need to be taken off and glued to this bumper. You'd also need a new washer tank and a few other parts (which is the case for other manufacturers as well). I think all in all you'd need like $200 - $300 in extra parts.

If I didn't have a vcsl, I'd jump on this in an instant. Looks great in photos.
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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 10:37:43 PM   #36
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by TboneM3 View Post
This would be true of every aftermarket bumper right? Yet many people still buy VCSL, SGT, et al. There'd be enough people still interested in this GB I'd imagine. I'm not comfortable either, personally, but I don't think the expectation should be that Streamline make a safety item, but aftermarket aesthetic aero.

I mean, people weren't posting these concerns in all the other aftermarket front bumper threads that have existed over the years - what's different now?
Because now we have input, given what they're doing here.

But, the above is why I don't have a replica csl bumper-- none have met what I consider mandatory to put it on my car. I have contacted SG a couple of times with similar thoughts, but they were uninterested... so I stayed stock.

It would also be a great way for them to differentiate themselves from what's on the market currently!
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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 11:29:48 PM   #37
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Because now we have input, given what they're doing here.

But, the above is why I don't have a replica csl bumper-- none have met what I consider mandatory to put it on my car. I have contacted SG a couple of times with similar thoughts, but they were uninterested... so I stayed stock.

It would also be a great way for them to differentiate themselves from what's on the market currently!
I see. That last sentence would be good for Dr M3an to deliver to them maybe along with caring about the safety of their customers. If that doesn't do it...

Although, like I said, are aftermarket aero companies expected (would the market expect) to make their product safe for street use or is this one of those "offroad" disclaimer type things?

It would certainly be a selling point as you say, but at 15 bumpers, they're probably not worried about the order being fulfilled.
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Old Thu, Apr-06-2017, 02:00:24 AM   #38
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
Lets try to keep this thread on track, please. If you want something from SGT, please feel free to purchase from them instead.
I think this topic has stayed on track. What I'm trying to get out of you here is why should one join this group buy over buying one from SGT?

SGT is a forum sponsor, has decent customer service and 1 piece lip
Option as well as accessibility to replacement parts.

When a nearly identical product is listed for sale, I'm always curious to hear someone's sales pitch.(I'm in the sales business so I always admire it)

I'm curious for your input here...

If this were a true OE bumper GB. I'd be in for sure. As a first time replica, I'm sure many will be nervous
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Old Thu, Apr-06-2017, 03:09:23 AM   #39
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by OneFastSicilian View Post
I think this topic has stayed on track. What I'm trying to get out of you here is why should one join this group buy over buying one from SGT?

SGT is a forum sponsor, has decent customer service and 1 piece lip
Option as well as accessibility to replacement parts.

When a nearly identical product is listed for sale, I'm always curious to hear someone's sales pitch.(I'm in the sales business so I always admire it)

I'm curious for your input here...

If this were a true OE bumper GB. I'd be in for sure. As a first time replica, I'm sure many will be nervous
SG also has the best lip mounting system, much better than oem and vcsl. I may not be a fan of them anymore but I will give credit where credit is due.
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Old Thu, Apr-06-2017, 05:24:33 AM   #40
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

So if I understand this correctly we can't use an aluminum carrier either? Or we have to modify the stock carrier? I thought this would just be a bolt on item? And the problem with the 1 piece delema is it's cool that it's fits OEM style but no one currently makes a 1 piece lip for the OEM csl style. That's why I asked if they'd consider making one.
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Discussing FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)