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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


View Poll Results: Please ONLY VOTE if you sincerely plan to participate. No dreamers.
I am interested in an FRP CSL Front Bumper 51 61.45%
I am interested in a Fully CF CSL Front Bumper 32 38.55%
Voters: 83. You may not vote on this poll

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Old Sun, Aug-13-2017, 03:52:02 AM   #361
Brian N
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by NZ_M3 View Post
It's true, it's stated in the training manuals for the E46 M3 for which I have one and I remember seeing an internal screenshot showing the flow dynamics of the trumpets.

I believe it was done on the F1 engine simulation software at the time.

The trumpets are the same part number on stock airbox and CSL, I posted a photo of it once.

The fact that the motorsport P54 engine runs the same trumpet and in 3.5 litre form is good for 450hp probably indicates that there's little to be gained from changing the trumpet design.

If you were going force induction then that's a different story.

Having said that however, everything can be improved upon I am sure given enough effort. For stockish application however I'd keep the trumpet as is.
Appreciate the response. It's always cool to learn new things about this car and engine. F1 being involved with development just makes this engine that much more special in my mind. Really makes yearn for the BMW of old.
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 01:21:48 AM   #362
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Bump. 29 hours left and 2 bumpers to go.
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2004 E46 ///M3 - Oxford Green Metallic II + Cinnamon SMG
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Mods: Maintenance, WPC treated rod-bearings, VinceBar (weld) + Redish Plates, Full Beisan VANOS 'lockdown', Supersprint V1 Stepped headers w/ Oversized Section 1, SS Resonated X-Pipe section 2, RE El Diablo Muffler, BBS LMs w/ PSS, Streamline CSL Bumper, CSL style CF diffuser, Vorsteiner CF CSL Bootlid, KW V3 Coilovers, Angel-eyes, CSL SMG Engine DME tune, CSL '255' SMG DME tune, CSL Dynamic Redline Warmup Light parameters.
Upcoming Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, CSL Bumper, OE CSL Wheels, Supersprint Headers MEGA thread, CSL Airbox...others in the works.
Please PM me - In search of:
-- Street DD friendly Camber Plates compatible with KW V3 Coilovers
-- Wanting to Trade basically brand new Eagle Eye Smoked Reverse Trunk Lights for a pair that are Non-smoked
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 03:29:23 PM   #363
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
Bump. 29 hours left and 2 bumpers to go.
I went to pledge and leave a deposit on the cf version and when I got to checkout, the total came to like $1,600+ w/shipping! I thought that you were originally predicting around $500 for the FRP version and somewhere shy of $1k for cf??? Don't get me wrong, as someone who's sponsored a few GB's, I appreciate the effort that goes into making something like his happen...but it seems like the projected price point kinda got away...or am I remembering the original suggested numbers wrong?
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 03:33:21 PM   #364
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Pricing is definitely way off from the original prices presented. If I wasn't able to add the rear diffuser for no additional shipping charges I would have had to pass on this.
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 03:52:38 PM   #365
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle90 View Post
Pricing is definitely way off from the original prices presented. If I wasn't able to add the rear diffuser for no additional shipping charges I would have had to pass on this.
I'm still new to this GB tool being used. In a lot of ways it has made things easier but in some ways, it leaves even myself a bit confused. However I don't believe any discounts have been added yet to the price, which will take affect when we hit 14.

Unfortunately I didn't make any of the prices. I am just the messenger. I am not making any money on these. The website owners emphasized that they wanted the price to be all inclusive, meaning no hidden fees or extra BS. Once things like euro converted to dollar, paypal fees, and shipping were all included in the price, the price reflects a higher number than I anticipated from what I was originally told. Once again, the price you are seeing doesn't reflect the 15% off discount until we hit 14 people.

Keep in mind, while the prices are not "cheap" its still a lot cheaper than the OE BMW CSL bumper, cheaper than what most full CF V-CSL bumpers go for on the used market (assuming you can find them), and cheaper than the Geoff Steel CF CSL bumper for USA buyers (the Geoff Steel bumpers are also not very refined and take a lot of after-purchase preparation/modification to install). If a fully CF bumper is what you're interested in, I believe this is still the cheapest option while also being of up-most build quality. Shipping certainly was not easy or cheap logistically, unfortunately.

The trouble with developing anything car related is finding the medium between 'high-quality' and 'affordable pricing'.
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2004 E46 ///M3 - Oxford Green Metallic II + Cinnamon SMG
IG: DrM3anM3

Mods: Maintenance, WPC treated rod-bearings, VinceBar (weld) + Redish Plates, Full Beisan VANOS 'lockdown', Supersprint V1 Stepped headers w/ Oversized Section 1, SS Resonated X-Pipe section 2, RE El Diablo Muffler, BBS LMs w/ PSS, Streamline CSL Bumper, CSL style CF diffuser, Vorsteiner CF CSL Bootlid, KW V3 Coilovers, Angel-eyes, CSL SMG Engine DME tune, CSL '255' SMG DME tune, CSL Dynamic Redline Warmup Light parameters.
Upcoming Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, CSL Bumper, OE CSL Wheels, Supersprint Headers MEGA thread, CSL Airbox...others in the works.
Please PM me - In search of:
-- Street DD friendly Camber Plates compatible with KW V3 Coilovers
-- Wanting to Trade basically brand new Eagle Eye Smoked Reverse Trunk Lights for a pair that are Non-smoked
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 04:37:02 PM   #366
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

14 hours left -- Just one more bumper to go for the 15% discount. We can do this!
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2004 E46 ///M3 - Oxford Green Metallic II + Cinnamon SMG
IG: DrM3anM3

Mods: Maintenance, WPC treated rod-bearings, VinceBar (weld) + Redish Plates, Full Beisan VANOS 'lockdown', Supersprint V1 Stepped headers w/ Oversized Section 1, SS Resonated X-Pipe section 2, RE El Diablo Muffler, BBS LMs w/ PSS, Streamline CSL Bumper, CSL style CF diffuser, Vorsteiner CF CSL Bootlid, KW V3 Coilovers, Angel-eyes, CSL SMG Engine DME tune, CSL '255' SMG DME tune, CSL Dynamic Redline Warmup Light parameters.
Upcoming Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, CSL Bumper, OE CSL Wheels, Supersprint Headers MEGA thread, CSL Airbox...others in the works.
Please PM me - In search of:
-- Street DD friendly Camber Plates compatible with KW V3 Coilovers
-- Wanting to Trade basically brand new Eagle Eye Smoked Reverse Trunk Lights for a pair that are Non-smoked
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 05:23:31 PM   #367
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

I wasn't confused at all by the group buy pricing. I think it's rather obvious the original pricing that was presented in this thread got a lot of people interested and ready to buy. But when the price got jacked up all of a sudden a ton of people are not interested anymore.... thanks for all your work on this. A very thankless job....
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 05:40:32 PM   #368
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by twentyseven View Post
I had the OEM CSL stuff on a previous car. Obviously it's the best, but as someone who is very picky i'm happy with how the V-CSL stuff fits/looks. Had it repainted at a local shop who I trust, but JB is also easier to match than any metallic... i'd say for $120 pre-painted this Streamline bumper is worth the risk. If everything else is as thorough as it seems, hopefully they wouldn't mess up the last step!

If I had to do it again i'd get OEM CSL trunk and this bumper. (Not sure who makes the best diffuser - too many choices) OEM CSL bumper + diffuser aren't worth the $tress IMO.

PS my 1pc race lip is literally in perfect condition. (no its not for sale!)

EDIT: Here's a decent pic of my V-CSL + Karbonius splitters.
Missed this. That was my next question! The splitters look great, so I guess I'll have to settle for those as a replacement.
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 05:44:11 PM   #369
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Things that increased the price from the original speculated price that was made early-on during the development process.
-The addition of side-mounts for the fenders -- which the competition does not include and something which you would otherwise have to fabricate on yourself using a donor bumper. They wanted this to be plug-and-play with zero fabrication needed to be performed once it leaves the factory.
-The washer bottle adaptor to allow for both the CSL windshield washer bottle and the stock washer bottle. This was not originally a part of the design. This also saves you money, because you do not need a CSL washer bottle.
-They are Clear-Coating (lacquering) all of the exposed carbon pieces (splitters). They use PPG clear-coat -- the same OE clear coat being used at the factory for Ferrari. While they can clear coat the full CF version, I suspect most of you will be choosing to paint these rather than leaving them as exposed CF. If you wish to leave it fully exposed, let me know.
-The 4 layer Carbon-Kevlar bumper carrier -- Originally this was not a part of the design when the original price was estimated.
-During this time, the cost of both 1x1 CF and FRP raw material went up. This was out of the manufacturer's control. Also why the 1x1 costs slightly more than 2x2.
-Both the FRP and CF version of the bumper come with the 4-layer carbon-kevlar bumper carrier and both come with clear-coating of the splitters.
-shipping. Shipping from Bulgaria to the USA is not cheap. The options are limited and there really is not one direct shipping line unfortunately. The good news is, we managed to get shipping down to half of what we were originally quoted. The other option was via boat. While I am sure this would have been cheaper, it would have meant that all bumpers would need to be produced prior to loading into a container (rather than shipping directly to their owners as they are completed) and it would have meant a lengthy shipping time for the container to cross the ocean (as opposed to 3-5 days via air-shipping). I might offer this option at a later date, but it seemed that there were too many more negatives with this option to justify any additional savings on shipping (which might not have been much cheaper).

They are working on making a video of the bumper to show all angles (so you can see the fitment without any slight-of-hand or tricks with angles in the photography), as well as providing more pictures of the bumper mounted to the car. They will also be making a video showing the ease of installation.

I doubt I will have these updated pictures in videos in the next 12 hours (before the GB offer ends) but it will be posted as soon as I have them.

Hopefully this update finds you all well.
Cheers.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle90 View Post
I wasn't confused at all by the group buy pricing. I think it's rather obvious the original pricing that was presented in this thread got a lot of people interested and ready to buy. But when the price got jacked up all of a sudden a ton of people are not interested anymore.... thanks for all your work on this. A very thankless job....
The part that confused me was the price listed at the top of the page. It confused me, because the price is based on what options you want to include for your bumper. Everything else, below this was very simple and straight forward. One reason I hesitate on releasing prices early on is because with anything being developed, pricing is pure speculation until the very end. It's just too volatile and impossible to keep static while changes and adaptations are being made. We tried to integrate much of the communities voice when making these, but all of this comes at a cost. However, in return, you get a much higher quality product.
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2004 E46 ///M3 - Oxford Green Metallic II + Cinnamon SMG
IG: DrM3anM3

Mods: Maintenance, WPC treated rod-bearings, VinceBar (weld) + Redish Plates, Full Beisan VANOS 'lockdown', Supersprint V1 Stepped headers w/ Oversized Section 1, SS Resonated X-Pipe section 2, RE El Diablo Muffler, BBS LMs w/ PSS, Streamline CSL Bumper, CSL style CF diffuser, Vorsteiner CF CSL Bootlid, KW V3 Coilovers, Angel-eyes, CSL SMG Engine DME tune, CSL '255' SMG DME tune, CSL Dynamic Redline Warmup Light parameters.
Upcoming Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, CSL Bumper, OE CSL Wheels, Supersprint Headers MEGA thread, CSL Airbox...others in the works.
Please PM me - In search of:
-- Street DD friendly Camber Plates compatible with KW V3 Coilovers
-- Wanting to Trade basically brand new Eagle Eye Smoked Reverse Trunk Lights for a pair that are Non-smoked

Last edited by Dr M3an M3; Mon, Aug-14-2017 at 06:00:14 PM.
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Old Mon, Aug-14-2017, 06:58:29 PM   #370
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Default Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
Things that increased the price from the original speculated price that was made early-on during the development process.
-The addition of side-mounts for the fenders -- which the competition does not include and something which you would otherwise have to fabricate on yourself using a donor bumper. They wanted this to be plug-and-play with zero fabrication needed to be performed once it leaves the factory.
-The washer bottle adaptor to allow for both the CSL windshield washer bottle and the stock washer bottle. This was not originally a part of the design. This also saves you money, because you do not need a CSL washer bottle.
-They are Clear-Coating (lacquering) all of the exposed carbon pieces (splitters). They use PPG clear-coat -- the same OE clear coat being used at the factory for Ferrari. While they can clear coat the full CF version, I suspect most of you will be choosing to paint these rather than leaving them as exposed CF. If you wish to leave it fully exposed, let me know.
-The 4 layer Carbon-Kevlar bumper carrier -- Originally this was not a part of the design when the original price was estimated.
-During this time, the cost of both 1x1 CF and FRP raw material went up. This was out of the manufacturer's control. Also why the 1x1 costs slightly more than 2x2.
-Both the FRP and CF version of the bumper come with the 4-layer carbon-kevlar bumper carrier and both come with clear-coating of the splitters.
-shipping. Shipping from Bulgaria to the USA is not cheap. The options are limited and there really is not one direct shipping line unfortunately. The good news is, we managed to get shipping down to half of what we were originally quoted. The other option was via boat. While I am sure this would have been cheaper, it would have meant that all bumpers would need to be produced prior to loading into a container (rather than shipping directly to their owners as they are completed) and it would have meant a lengthy shipping time for the container to cross the ocean (as opposed to 3-5 days via air-shipping). I might offer this option at a later date, but it seemed that there were too many more negatives with this option to justify any additional savings on shipping (which might not have been much cheaper).

They are working on making a video of the bumper to show all angles (so you can see the fitment without any slight-of-hand or tricks with angles in the photography), as well as providing more pictures of the bumper mounted to the car. They will also be making a video showing the ease of installation.

I doubt I will have these updated pictures in videos in the next 12 hours (before the GB offer ends) but it will be posted as soon as I have them.

Hopefully this update finds you all well.
Cheers.





The part that confused me was the price listed at the top of the page. It confused me, because the price is based on what options you want to include for your bumper. Everything else, below this was very simple and straight forward. One reason I hesitate on releasing prices early on is because with anything being developed, pricing is pure speculation until the very end. It's just too volatile and impossible to keep static while changes and adaptations are being made. We tried to integrate much of the communities voice when making these, but all of this comes at a cost. However, in return, you get a much higher quality product.
Thanx for the explanation...I figured there were various reasons and it's about as I expected. I'm sure that it will be a very high quality product, but I might just have to pass this go round...I just didn't budget for almost double the amount of the original projected price. Depending on how the installs go and if folks are happy...and there's a 2nd GB...I may jump on the next one.
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Last edited by stash1; Tue, Aug-15-2017 at 03:20:09 PM.
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Discussing FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)