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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 06:34:07 AM   #11
Dr M3an M3
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

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Originally Posted by Texaz3 View Post
They are seats. Amazing as they might be, $7K is a crazy number to spend on seats for a 12+ year-old car worth about twice as much.
I agree, they are expensive. Especially when you can get a set of Cobra seats like Obioban's for half the price. But their IS something to be said about authentic CSL seats. They are special. Even BMW charged that much for them, so the prices are not THAT unheard of. Here is a pair of $9k OLED M4 taillights from BMW.

For some people, $7k is hardly a months paycheck. All things are relative. To some people, it's not just any 12+ year old car. This one clearly holds the heart of many, like 20-30 year old 911s which command higher prices.

I recently got into to shoes. You should see what people pay for a pair of special Nikes. I don't mean to get off topic, but this is an $8k pair of sneakers. And if you wear a size 14, it's a $15k sneaker lol. We are talking about a shoe made 4 years ago that retailed at $245 lol. Assuming they actually get worn, they will get dirty, the soles will get warn, they will get wet and potentially muddy, they literally are what connects you to the dirty ground. I don't understand them at all or their prices, they are not my style of shoe, but yet people that love Nike sneakers that also can afford them are willing to pay for them, even at that high of a resale price.

All things are relative. What seems like a crazy amount of money to some people is just "beer money" to others.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 04:58:53 PM   #12
cozmo kraemer
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

Even at $7k for a full front and rear setup, it isn't crazy compared to the Cobras, or Recaro sportsters, or similar. For those you have to include all of the mounting hardware, sliders, etc. A front only setup can easily run $4k or more. I can say without a doubt I like these better than the Recaros, much better infact. I haven't sat in the Cobras, but those look very nice and could definitely be an alternative.

I also like that i can remove the bottom cushion for track driving. So you sit directly on the shell of the seat and much lower in the car. They don't work with harnesses which is a major detraction for serious track guys, but if you were looking to keep a car on the street side of street/track, they are perfect IMO.

Edit...added photos. You'd never think my car has 172k miles on it.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg front csl interior.jpg (353.9 KB, 80 views)
File Type: jpg Rear CSL seats w black panels.jpg (289.3 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg Passenger side.jpg (318.7 KB, 68 views)
File Type: jpg new CSL interior.jpg (312.2 KB, 63 views)
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Last edited by cozmo kraemer; Wed, Dec-05-2018 at 05:36:27 PM. Reason: I mean they do look pretty sweet, even with just regular door cards
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 06:14:31 PM   #13
Obioban
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

The CSL seats were are non starter for me because you can't run harnesses with them (no pass through holes)-- including harnesses that work with the stock seats, e.g. the Schroth QuickFit Pro... which also means no Hans device. IF you track the car at all, that's pretty much a deal breaker IMO.

If you don't, they're super comfortable, directly bolt in, and look great
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 06:35:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The CSL seats were are non starter for me because you can't run harnesses with them (no pass through holes)-- including harnesses that work with the stock seats, e.g. the Schroth QuickFit Pro... which also means no Hans device. IF you track the car at all, that's pretty much a deal breaker IMO.

If you don't, they're super comfortable, directly bolt in, and look great
I guess that depends on the seriousness of the track driving. There are plenty of cars out there running the stock safety equipment just fine. Going to the track and having fun, doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a cage, harnesses, and a hans device. Just stay out of the race groups and within your limits. Of course an accident can happen at any time, but that can be said for anything. A street car with a cage is a non-starter as well. A cage is definitely needed to run full harnesses. So, it is a slippery slope.

I keep the car as a street car that maybe sees a couple weekends a year of track driving. They are perfect for that.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 06:45:35 PM   #15
Obioban
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

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Originally Posted by cozmo kraemer View Post
I guess that depends on the seriousness of the track driving. There are plenty of cars out there running the stock safety equipment just fine. Going to the track and having fun, doesn't necessarily mean you have to have a cage, harnesses, and a hans device. Just stay out of the race groups and within your limits. Of course an accident can happen at any time, but that can be said for anything. A street car with a cage is a non-starter as well. A cage is definitely needed to run full harnesses. So, it is a slippery slope.

I keep the car as a street car that maybe sees a couple weekends a year of track driving. They are perfect for that.
A cage is in no way needed to run harnesses.

From Schroth, who has done far and away the most crash testing of harnesses of anyone:







I certainly agree that you can track the car with the factory 3 points. But, harnesses without a roll cage are significantly safer, enable the use of a hans device (which makes things much safer still), and hold you in place nicely.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 06:51:24 PM   #16
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

A fixed back seat is also safer than a hinged seat, right? So it is still better than the stock M seats for the track (both support and safety). This isn't a racecar though, any track driving is just for fun.

I'll rephrase what I said previously, I would run a roll bar at a bare minimum if running full harnesses. Just my opinion. My helmet almost touches the roof. If I couldn't move either direction while being belted in, a roll over that compressed the roof even slightly would be a big deal. I get what Schroth is saying with the main danger being the outside of the vehicle and not the roof, I just wouldn't feel comfortable without the rollover protection if running the harness.

Edit: I even said these aren't for the hardcore track driving/racers. I think most people know this. That is why they even are on the market to begin with, the CSL owners that seriously track their cars go to proper seat/harness setup.
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Last edited by cozmo kraemer; Wed, Dec-05-2018 at 06:55:21 PM.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 07:20:10 PM   #17
Obioban
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

Quote:
Originally Posted by cozmo kraemer View Post
A fixed back seat is also safer than a hinged seat, right? So it is still better than the stock M seats for the track (both support and safety). This isn't a racecar though, any track driving is just for fun.

I'll rephrase what I said previously, I would run a roll bar at a bare minimum if running full harnesses. Just my opinion. My helmet almost touches the roof. If I couldn't move either direction while being belted in, a roll over that compressed the roof even slightly would be a big deal. I get what Schroth is saying with the main danger being the outside of the vehicle and not the roof, I just wouldn't feel comfortable without the rollover protection if running the harness.

Edit: I even said these aren't for the hardcore track driving/racers. I think most people know this. That is why they even are on the market to begin with, the CSL owners that seriously track their cars go to proper seat/harness setup.
I don't know of any reason a fixed back is safer than a reclining seat, unless the reclining seat fails?

Head room: you can pretty easily get aftermarket seats lower than the CSL seats, which IMO is a better (safer) way to deal with limited head room. Even without that, I'd still run a harness-- e.g. I ran a quickfit the entire decade I was tracking with the stock seats (and with the stock seats/sunroof I had to recline the seat a bit to fit in the car at all with a helmet). In the specific instance of the roof collapsing I might be worse off, but I'd rather be better off if every other type of accident.

I think we're actually agreeing, overall-- I just pointed out the harness thing to the OP in case he hadn't considered it. For street use, the CSL seats are completely kickass, imo!

... and then I responded to the "roll cage needed for harnesses" thing because it's a very common misconception that is hugely detrimental to safety. I don't know how it started, but I'm trying to nip it in the bud wherever it crops up. It results in people either running roll bars/cages on the street, which is HUGELY unsafe without a helmet and/or harnesses, or not running harnesses on track, with is significantly less safe.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 08:52:14 PM   #18
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

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Originally Posted by cozmo kraemer View Post

Edit...added photos. You'd never think my car has 172k miles on it.
therein lies the biggest draw of CSL seats. no level of modding is going to make an aftermarket seat look and operate as OE as something that was actually OE
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 10:20:14 PM   #19
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

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Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
I don't mean to get off topic, but this is an $8k pair of sneakers. And if you wear a size 14, it's a $15k sneaker lol.
Not to stay off topic, but anyone willing to spend 8 grand on an ugly ass pair of Nikes made from about 45 cents worth of materials deserves to get lit on fire.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 10:26:20 PM   #20
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Default Re: E46 CSL seats

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Not to stay off topic, but anyone willing to spend 8 grand on an ugly ass pair of Nikes made from about 45 cents worth of materials deserves to get lit on fire.
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Mods: Genuine OE CSL Bumper, Both Karbonius and Streamline CSL Airboxes, OE CSL Snorkel w/ working Flap, OE Map Sensor + OE Air Rail, Paul Claude Custom Tune, CSL Engine management with CSL converted DME, Supersprint V1 Stepped Headers w/ Oversized Catless section 1, SS 2.5" Twin-Piped Oversized section 2, Rogue Engineering Muffler (soon to be switched), WPC treated rod-bearings, VinceBar (weld) + Redish Plates, Full Beisan VANOS lockdown, BBS LMs w/ PSS, CSL style CF diffuser, Vorsteiner CF CSL Bootlid, CSL SMG Engine DME tune, CSL '255' SMG DME tune.
Active Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, Supersprint Headers/Exhaust MEGA thread, New Supersprint Oversized Twin-Piped Section 2 ...and more to come!
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Discussing E46 CSL seats in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)