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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 05:31:40 AM   #21
matty088
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Default Re: Rasp

Lots of great feedback here and so far my experience on this forum has been great. And some great sounding cars to boot. But I have regressed a bit. My original plan when I got the car was to keep it 100% bone stock.it is very clean example. I have modded cars so keeping this one civil made sense. And to simply enjoy it with out fuss. But Bc I am am enthusiast and I am bored and it’s winter I started researching stuff. So I got the bug alittle to do things to it. But as I learn more and more the cost versus benefit on this platform is pretty ugly. I mean guys are throwing serious money to basically open up their exhausts just to close them back up with tons of resonators and so on. And if they don’t you get a pretty bad rasp. Or I am suppose to spend 2000 bucks to move my cats down stream two feet?? And what do you get in return...slightly more power. I don’t know. It seems like snake oil to me at this point. Perhaps Bmw has the car setup pretty good from the factory. Maybe I won’t touch the exhaust at all. It seems like a slippery slope.

And as far intakes. Spending 3000 to get ten hp is insane even if the sound is that great. I may get the eventuri one for 975 just Bc it adds a littl exotic noise and a touch of that “feel” while not breaking the bank. It will make the car slightly more sporty I guess. But then again maybe not. But it’s simetning I can do in my garage over the winter and easily reverse.

In the end one can spend 6-7000 for a 10% increase in power that will make the car still pretty not fast. That’s a tough pill to swallow. Although I bet they are fun with everything opened up. And I did see one at a local cars and coffee that sounded absolutely amazing. And I mean that. I am just not sure it’s a route I want to get in to. Slippery slope it seems. Maybe too slippery.

So I guess I will do the intake and maybe 4.10 gears. But we shall see.

Last edited by matty088; Sun, Dec-02-2018 at 05:42:38 AM.
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 05:38:24 AM   #22
matty088
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Default Re: Rasp

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
Adding a loud muffler with stock headers sounds like a civic...Adding good headers sounds incredibly exotic. Literally nothing like a civic. Stepped headers added an irreplaceably good sound and gobs of sound. I'll never go back. The video I posted reflects the mods in my signature....Nothing like a civic in noise.
U are 100% right. Your video and the other one sound absolutely amazing. Probably one of the best sounding cars around when properly setup.


Let me ask u this. Have you ever ran the 1/4 with it. Or do you know what one will run thatís set up in a similar fashion? Iíd be interested to know what real world gains can be had with opening up exhaust and intake and a tune
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 05:39:12 AM   #23
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Default Re: Rasp

Quote:
Originally Posted by matty088 View Post
Lots of great feedback here and so far my experience on this forum has been great. And some great sounding cars to boot. But I have regressed a bit. My original plan when I got the car was to keep it 100% bone stock.it is very clean example. I have modded cars so keeping this one civil made sense. And to simply enjoy it with out fuss. But Bc I am am enthusiast and I am bored and itís winter I started researching stuff. So I got the bug alittle to do things to it. But as I learn more and more the cost versus benefit on this platform is pretty ugly. I mean guys are throwing serious money to basically open up their exhausts just to close them back up with tons of resonators and so on. And if they donít you get a pretty bad rasp. And what do you get in return...slightly more power. I donít know. It seems like snake oil to me at this point. Perhaps Bmw has the car setup pretty good from the factory. Maybe I wonít touch the exhaust at all. It seems like a slippery slope.

And as far intakes. Spending 3000 to get ten hp is insane even if the sound is that great. I may get the eventuri one for 975 just Bc it adds a littl exotic noise and a touch of that ďfeelĒ while not breaking the bank. It will make the car slightly more sporty I guess. But then again maybe not. But itís simetning I can do in my garage over the winter and easily reverse.

In the end one can spend 6-7000 for a 10% increase in power that will make the car still pretty not fast. Thatís a tough pill to swallow. Although I bet they are fun with everything opened up. And I did see one at a local cars and coffee that sounded absolutely amazing. And I mean that. I am just not sure itís a route I want to get in to. Slippery slope it seems. Maybe too slippery.

So I guess I will do the intake and maybe 4.10 gears. But we shall see.
Pm me if interested in eventuri

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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 05:39:34 AM   #24
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Default Re: Rasp

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Originally Posted by TboneM3 View Post
No rasp = Boooooring
+1

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All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.

Happy to help with VANOS or any other DIY job around NorCal
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 05:47:28 AM   #25
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Default Re: Rasp

i think you have an incorrect perception about resonators being added and their effect on power. there are already two resonators (besides the muffler) in the stock system, and we're advocating adding one at most. and in some cases, removing one. and really, what's the cost of one resonator? 1hp? 2hp?

exhausts and the intake are stupid money on these things i agree. but ya know what's more expensive? a car payment and depreciation. the intake is basically a requisite item to making real power on these via cams and proper headers. but i really don't care that much about how much power it adds. i care about the experience of driving it, and in that regard the proper sound is very significant, and how much you just want to wring it out all the time. personally, i have little to no desire to own modern fast cars...as you can't do anything with them. it's much more enjoyable to me to drive a "slow" car quickly than a quick car slowly. last thing i need is to have to do 150mph to really get any sensation of speed.
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 05:56:56 AM   #26
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Default Re: Rasp

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Originally Posted by rovert604 View Post
Itís weird. My friendís car is a 2002 and he hardly has rasp without any mods. When my car was OEM like his, he commented on how much more raspy mine was. I guess everyoneís car is different! Mine was a complete sack of metal bits compared to now. So for me, the reduction is far better than your 20% experience. I wonder what makes different cars differ. I guess itís hit or miss in some cases. I love the sound of my car now. The tone sounds closer to what my ZHP had with Supersprint sport muffler, but with some added extra craziness. LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by KS Golfer View Post
i think you have an incorrect perception about resonators being added and their effect on power. there are already two resonators (besides the muffler) in the stock system, and we're advocating adding one at most. and in some cases, removing one. and really, what's the cost of one resonator? 1hp? 2hp?



exhausts and the intake are stupid money on these things i agree. but ya know what's more expensive? a car payment and depreciation. the intake is basically a requisite item to making real power on these via cams and proper headers. but i really don't care that much about how much power it adds. i care about the experience of driving it, and in that regard the proper sound is very significant, and how much you just want to wring it out all the time. personally, i have little to no desire to own modern fast cars...as you can't do anything with them. it's much more enjoyable to me to drive a "slow" car quickly than a quick car slowly. last thing i need is to have to do 150mph to really get any sensation of speed.
U are very right on all accounts. My modern Bmw with mods is very fast and is boring.

Look. I think you are spot on. And I donít have a rebuttal. I am clearly in the fence in what I want to do with this car as noted. Time will tell. Your two videos excite me but the three million others on YouTube scare me.

It will be fun to see how this ends up for me.
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 06:08:13 AM   #27
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Default Re: Rasp

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Originally Posted by matty088 View Post
U are 100% right. Your video and the other one sound absolutely amazing. Probably one of the best sounding cars around when properly setup.


Let me ask u this. Have you ever ran the 1/4 with it. Or do you know what one will run that’s set up in a similar fashion? I’d be interested to know what real world gains can be had with opening up exhaust and intake and a tune
I've never ran the 1/4 mile in mine. Was supposed to last month but got overly busy...Probably will in the next month or so, if not spring. Truthfully, these cars are not quarter mile cars and my build is not at all directed to that focus.

Take a look at some dynos though, these cars can put down a LOT of power for a 3.2L naturally aspirated inline six. There is a LOT of room in terms of NA power to make gains via headers, exhaust, intake, and tune. Plenty of guys are putting down between 350-377 to the wheels with combination of those mods. That might not sound like a lot, but that is over 400hp at the crank and once more, with zero boost (so unheard of power given its displacement and aspiration).

$3k sounds like a lot for an intake and all the supporting parts it needs. When I was new I didn't understand it. All it takes is one proper drive in a car with a CSL airbox and you will never be able to look back. Nothing sounds as good sub-$100k-200k+. Even if it made zero power, what it adds to the driving experience is invaluable. It's like a whole different car...a proper motorsports car. Like going from a 330i to an M3 all over again and then some. Eventuri intake was nice. I ran one for 6ish months....But its not anywhere close to the experience of a CSL airbox. You don't have to break the bank to achieve these mods, but dollar per value, there isn't another car like it. If all you want is high-HP and low quarter mile times, then this isn't the right platform, especially if you want that cheaply....But there is so much more to driving than that. The only car I could see myself graduating to from how mine is setup is a GT-series Porsche...which is way above my budget in price and running cost. These cars when modded properly punch WELL above the waist. Have I dumped a lot of money into my car? Probably. However to put it into perspective, I bet if I added the cost of my car and mods together it would be not much different than buying a new Camry, and in my case, its WAY more fun, WAY more car, MUCH higher quality, and zero concern of resale value or depreciation. It's basically ruined every other car for me. I can't imagine owning an S54 and not experiencing stepped headers and CSL airboxes at this point....It just wouldn't be the full experience. It's like having a hot girlfriend and always having to wear a condom...or worse, never banging her. There is no substitution for these mods on this platform (stock included) and it will rival cars many times more expensive in terms of sensory emotion when driving. It IS a slippery slope though, but one I am so glad I took.

EDIT: Take youtube with a grain of salt. Video doesn't capture all the nuances and complexity of noise and many of those cars may have been improperly modded. Take some time doing the research. There are PLENTY of threads on this forum with guys listing their setup and sharing videos of the sound, ect. But once again, they sound better in person. Video rarely does accurate justice when it comes to sound. If all you do is throw a muffler on it, it very well might sound like shit (like a Honda with a 'fart can'). Add in proper headers and supporting exhaust pieces and they almost never sound bad in real-life...and the power difference is totally something you will feel when done right.
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Active Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, Supersprint Headers/Exhaust MEGA thread, New Supersprint Oversized Twin-Piped Section 2 ...and more to come!
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Last edited by Dr M3an M3; Sun, Dec-02-2018 at 06:13:03 AM.
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 06:20:13 AM   #28
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Default Re: Rasp

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Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
If all you do is throw a muffler on it, it very well might sound like shit (like a Honda with a 'fart can').

It is the super light weight section threes that can sound like a total mess because of their lack of acoustic control. My heavyíish Eisenmann race section three sounded great the day it was installed. I think I might have saved 20lbs? The size of the muffler can and the amount of weight in sound deadening material kept the high frequency engine sounds under control and left the low and deep tones. I do have moderate drone at 2500 but listening to my friendís AP2/SS replica?... has a drone at 3400 and the combined higher pitched tone has a totally different/less refined/raw sound next to Eisenmann. His muffler is way lighter and muffler can is a lot smaller so more sound is going to escape. Whether itís exotic or broken, is in the ear of the beholder.
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 06:55:45 AM   #29
Dr M3an M3
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Default Re: Rasp

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Originally Posted by rovert604 View Post
It is the super light weight section threes that can sound like a total mess because of their lack of acoustic control. My heavyíish Eisenmann race section three sounded great the day it was installed. I think I might have saved 20lbs? The size of the muffler can and the amount of weight in sound deadening material kept the high frequency engine sounds under control and left the low and deep tones. I do have moderate drone at 2500 but listening to my friendís AP2/SS replica?... has a drone at 3400 and the combined higher pitched tone has a totally different/less refined/raw sound next to Eisenmann. His muffler is way lighter and muffler can is a lot smaller so more sound is going to escape. Whether itís exotic or broken, is in the ear of the beholder.
Yep, exactly. I was just trying to keep it simplified as I have a tendency to write a lot, but you are spot on. Those mufflers were never designed or intended to be ran on an otherwise stock exhaust. Take the Supersprint Lightweight Race Muffler. Incredible performing and sounding muffler when ran with the full Supersprint exhaust system -- Which is how it was designed. However, if you JUST buy that muffler and install it on your stock exhaust, not only will the performance not match how it was designed, but it will sound like crap. My RE El Diablo sounded fantastic on its own...add in headers and it got any better. In the case of Supersprint, their Street and Sport would be equivalent to this depending on volume preferences.
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Mods: Genuine OE CSL Bumper, Both Karbonius and Streamline CSL Airboxes, OE CSL Snorkel w/ working Flap, OE Map Sensor + OE Air Rail, Paul Claude Custom Tune, CSL Engine management with CSL converted DME, Supersprint V1 Stepped Headers w/ Oversized Catless section 1, SS 2.5" Twin-Piped Oversized section 2, Rogue Engineering Muffler (soon to be switched), WPC treated rod-bearings, VinceBar (weld) + Redish Plates, Full Beisan VANOS lockdown, BBS LMs w/ PSS, CSL style CF diffuser, Vorsteiner CF CSL Bootlid, CSL SMG Engine DME tune, CSL '255' SMG DME tune.
Active Group-Buys (PM if Interested): OE CSL Bootlids, Supersprint Headers/Exhaust MEGA thread, New Supersprint Oversized Twin-Piped Section 2 ...and more to come!
Please PM me - In search of: Nothing at the moment.
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2018, 06:56:45 AM   #30
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Default Re: Rasp

I beg to differ. The csl intake with cams added like 35whp lol. Cams added like 20. Exhaust with cams added like 30. Tuned, it has a total of 100whp added on my car with my mods... Which is like 30% increase to the original power not boosted.. That's 423hp. It cost maybe 4 or 5k.. That's not bad value at all. Back in the day you had to spend 25k on a Dinan supercharger to get 420hp. Granted I diyed a lot of it, but that's just what it's all about. Having fun. Doing it yourself where u can and sending it. There are more and more affordable options csl for intakes that don't cost 3k. Evolve was 2k on sale geoff steel is probably half that. Streamline is in the works. I made my own lol.
Also adding resonators does not close them back up lol. A resonator is a straight thru perforated pipe wrapped with steel wool and a can around it. If anything it increases flow rather than decrease it, while doing away with bad resonanating frequencies, hence the name.
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-Custom CF airbox
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-Cat Cams 280 272.
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-Tms pulleys and electric fan conversion
368.4 whp 289.1 wtq

Custom exhaust thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=569086
Cams thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=554439
Custom cf airbox thread http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=595180
Why not to use after market bearings with surfacetreatments and /or increased clearance
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...4&postcount=10

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Discussing Rasp in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)