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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 01:39:08 PM   #1
moshjack
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Exclamation SOLVED: Noise for few seconds at first startup

***Solution Found= Broken timing chain guide, was snapped in two pieces. The chain tensioner was basically doing almost nothing with this piece broken. This explains the oil-pressure dependent noise like a loose timing chain/tensioner.
The broken piece was sitting on top of the guide, only a very small section was "missing"- into the oil pan. ***
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've been chasing an interesting noise on my 04 M3 for a while now.

Symptoms:
After the car has been sitting for a few hours (3-4+) the car makes a rattle type noise for maybe 1-2 seconds. When the motor first fires and the RPMs raise up to 1500 or so in that first ignition sequence is when I hear it.

After that the noise immediately disappears and it sounds normal.

If I was to shut the car off and start it right back up again, the noise does not happen. It starts with no noise. After sitting for 3-4 hours, it will make the noise again.

I originally thought this was related to oil pressure in the vanos. I wanted to do the anti-rattle updates anyways, so I replaced the Vanos, the vanos solenoid, updated the oil pump disc to the beisan disc, installed the updated helical spline gears.
I also replaced the Vanos pressure line and the pressure accumulator.

This had no effect on the noise. The car runs better than ever and sounds perfect at EVERY other time, like brand new, EXCEPT for the first second of starting the car.

Yesterday I replaced the timing chain tensioner, convinced that it was leaking down and was not holding pressure.
This morning I went to start the car hoping that fixed it... Same noise...

My CPV is leaking externally, could it be causing a low pressure situation at first startup, causing the chain tensioner to be loose?

Last edited by moshjack; Fri, May-30-2014 at 03:37:51 PM. Reason: Solution Found!!
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 01:57:15 PM   #2
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Secondary air pump?
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 02:10:48 PM   #3
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

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Originally Posted by M3n00b View Post
Secondary air pump?
Nope, that runs as normal for the first minute no problem.
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 02:18:37 PM   #4
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

My '03 engine does the same thing, and I've replaced or rebuilt all the usual suspects, too. Still have that little rattle on start-up. It sounds to me like the valve train is a little dry after the engine sits for a while, then the noise vanishes after all the cam parts get fresh oil to them. I haven't changed that pita CPV on the side of the engine, but am beginning to think it may be leaking down while the engine is off for a while. Anyone have other thoughts?
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 02:30:36 PM   #5
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Broken exhaust upper chain guide can cause this.
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 02:39:41 PM   #6
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rajaie View Post
Broken exhaust upper chain guide can cause this.
http://www.beisansystems.com/procedu..._procedure.htm
Raj, wouldn't it make the noise at EVERY startup then?
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 02:49:58 PM   #7
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Is there any correlation to ambient air temps as to when the noise occurs or does not occur?
Same goes for the engine block temp itself.

Does it have a chill to it before you start up would be something to take note of before starting.


I have noticed that can affect when some of these start up noises occur randomly.
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 03:32:00 PM   #8
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hacksaw View Post
Is there any correlation to ambient air temps as to when the noise occurs or does not occur?
Same goes for the engine block temp itself.

Does it have a chill to it before you start up would be something to take note of before starting.


I have noticed that can affect when some of these start up noises occur randomly.
I was curious if this was a factor at first, but the car can sit outside at work in 75 degress direct sunlight and still exhibit the noise when I go to leave at the end of the day.

If I was to start it after sitting for only an hour or so it does NOT make the sound.
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Old Tue, May-20-2014, 04:32:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

Here is a video I took of the rattle before I went in and did the vanos upgrades. The very first noise when the motor first starts is what I am talking about.

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Old Wed, May-21-2014, 02:44:31 AM   #10
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Default Re: Noise for few seconds at first startup

I have the same rattle only on some cold starts . Vanos, valves, rod bearings, CPV, chain guide, entire cooling system is new, or rebuilt. No idea what it is!
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Discussing Noise for few seconds at first startup in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)