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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 01:39:53 AM   #81
herrubermensch
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

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Are you still on the VAC valvetrain? Is it the same valve shim that gets spit every time or random/multiple? I know supertech recently came out with an updated design to fix the spitting shims above 8500 rpm issue. Wish they would have rolled that out before I got my set . I'm not sure if the VAC design maybe has the same issues.
Updated design of exactly what?

--Peter
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 01:57:39 AM   #82
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

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Originally Posted by mrgicm View Post
Everything in the head is from Schrick and the valves are VAC. The shim fells out after 100km. Firat I tought it was just one valve than we placed it back re measured everything and next it fell on 2-3 valves.

So did Supertech conclude the valves were the problem, how did they adress this problem?
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Originally Posted by herrubermensch View Post
Updated design of exactly what?

--Peter
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmOpQNaF...d=wfhgrj31hs78

Its a new valve, retainer, and shim design apparently.
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2001 E46 M3 - Slicktop Manual Coupe - Alpine White on Imola Red

Engine: Karbonius CSL airbox, Lang Racing stage 2.5 head, Schrick 288/280 cams & followers, Lang Racing rod journal widening kit w/ CP 12:1 87.5mm pistons & Carrillo rods, Kassel CSL DME & MAP conversion, 36lb injectors, Paul Claude tune, APE Flex fuel kit, TMS Power Pulleys, SS V1 stepped headers & catless section 1, SS 2.5 twin-piped resonated section 2, SGT scza section 3.
Drivetrain: DKM Stage 2 Clutch, RTD V2 mini shifter, RE trans mounts, Motorsport 4.10 R&P, Revshift 80A diff bushings.
Suspension/Brakes: Bilstein PSS9's, RE RSM's, UUC sway bars, BW camber arms, TMS monoball RTABs, ZCP rotors, BW solid caliper guide bushings, PFC 08's, Motorsport Hardware 75mm stud kit.
Interior: Cobra Nogaro seats, BMW Performance shift knob/e-brake/pedals, OE alcantara boots, mason clutch pedal, Xtrons 9" headunit w/ carplay

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Old Wed, Dec-05-2018, 10:52:41 PM   #83
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

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Originally Posted by . View Post
https://www.instagram.com/p/BmOpQNaF...d=wfhgrj31hs78

Its a new valve, retainer, and shim design apparently.
Interesting, wonder if the new design has enhanced rpm capability and has anyone tested it...not much info in that instagram blurb.
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Old Thu, Dec-06-2018, 12:46:09 PM   #84
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

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Interesting, wonder if the new design has enhanced rpm capability and has anyone tested it...not much info in that instagram blurb.
I asked in the comments and didn't get a response. Yeah sucks theres not much detail. A couple people on Michael Essa's page said they're running them as well and it fixed their spitting shims issue but didn't say to what rpm. I figured if I ever pull my head off again I'd give them a call and find out.
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2001 E46 M3 - Slicktop Manual Coupe - Alpine White on Imola Red

Engine: Karbonius CSL airbox, Lang Racing stage 2.5 head, Schrick 288/280 cams & followers, Lang Racing rod journal widening kit w/ CP 12:1 87.5mm pistons & Carrillo rods, Kassel CSL DME & MAP conversion, 36lb injectors, Paul Claude tune, APE Flex fuel kit, TMS Power Pulleys, SS V1 stepped headers & catless section 1, SS 2.5 twin-piped resonated section 2, SGT scza section 3.
Drivetrain: DKM Stage 2 Clutch, RTD V2 mini shifter, RE trans mounts, Motorsport 4.10 R&P, Revshift 80A diff bushings.
Suspension/Brakes: Bilstein PSS9's, RE RSM's, UUC sway bars, BW camber arms, TMS monoball RTABs, ZCP rotors, BW solid caliper guide bushings, PFC 08's, Motorsport Hardware 75mm stud kit.
Interior: Cobra Nogaro seats, BMW Performance shift knob/e-brake/pedals, OE alcantara boots, mason clutch pedal, Xtrons 9" headunit w/ carplay

IG: Zach_e46M
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Old Sat, Mar-02-2019, 06:52:19 PM   #85
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

Anyone have any experience with the uprated Supertech valve kit with the longer valve stems and valve lash caps in lieu of shims?

--Peter
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Old Sat, Mar-02-2019, 09:26:13 PM   #86
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

i would have thought they have a test mule not rely on customers to test parts
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Old Fri, Apr-12-2019, 08:56:27 PM   #87
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

UPDATE

So finally I have solved the problem, as no one here was able to figure what was wrong with my engine, I took the plunge and sent the head of to Schmickler Perfomance Germany for a full diagnose and rebuild.

After a few days with the head they asked me to send out the ECU of the car, at this point I knew they were likely to found the problem.

So I had several problems in the Engine Head:

1. The Valves were sitting too far in the head, thus the Valve Spring pre load and valve balance was not correct causing the shims to fall out at higher rpm due to valve float.

This was causing both the lower compression on the lower side and the shims falling out on upper side. They resolved the issue by making new valve seats and adjusting with valve plates, lowering the valves back and thus re gaining engine compression.

Since I am using oversize valves both intake and exhaust, now they needed to measure at which stroke the valves collide so they can make adjustments to the Vanos. They have provided me with a full excel sheet of all the valve distances and on which stroke they collide, making the limitantions in the ECU vanos control and renewing the valve seals.

I was blown away by the knowlage and work they did immeadetley finding the cause for all my troubles.

The head will be back on the car in a few days and the car will be on the Nurburgring in a couple of weeks again stronger than ever.
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Old Fri, Apr-12-2019, 09:33:40 PM   #88
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgicm View Post
UPDATE

Since I am using oversize valves both intake and exhaust, now they needed to measure at which stroke the valves collide so they can make adjustments to the Vanos. They have provided me with a full excel sheet of all the valve distances and on which stroke they collide making the limitantions in the ECU vanos control and renewing the valve seals.
Would you mind sharing that data here? It is a tremendous amount of work to measure the camshaft angles where the valves collide and then translate that into what numbers you would need to limit the VANOS travel to. In general this is why people just avoid oversized valves on the S54 all together. If you had some data to contribute that would be extremely valuable to everyone on this forum.
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Old Fri, Apr-12-2019, 09:52:28 PM   #89
stash1
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgicm View Post
UPDATE

So finally I have solved the problem, as no one here was able to figure what was wrong with my engine, I took the plunge and sent the head of to Schmickler Perfomance Germany for a full diagnose and rebuild.

After a few days with the head they asked me to send out the ECU of the car, at this point I knew they were likely to found the problem.

So I had several problems in the Engine Head:

1. The Valves were sitting too far in the head, thus the Valve Spring pre load and valve balance was not correct causing the shims to fall out at higher rpm due to valve float.

This was causing both the lower compression on the lower side and the shims falling out on upper side. They resolved the issue by making new valve seats and adjusting with valve plates, lowering the valves back and thus re gaining engine compression.

Since I am using oversize valves both intake and exhaust, now they needed to measure at which stroke the valves collide so they can make adjustments to the Vanos. They have provided me with a full excel sheet of all the valve distances and on which stroke they collide, making the limitantions in the ECU vanos control and renewing the valve seals.

I was blown away by the knowlage and work they did immeadetley finding the cause for all my troubles.

The head will be back on the car in a few days and the car will be on the Nurburgring in a couple of weeks again stronger than ever.
Awesome news, hopefully limiting the VANOS travel will keep it from happening again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by herrubermensch View Post
Anyone have any experience with the uprated Supertech valve kit with the longer valve stems and valve lash caps in lieu of shims? --Peter
I know that Mike@Max PSI is running this set up on his 1,100HP Turbo M3...so far, so good. I did speak w/Martin @ Supertech a while ago about it, and yes, it does require new specific valves, specific (concave) retainers, and the (bucket style) lash caps. The system still won't prevent valve float, but should all but eliminate spitting the bucket style lash caps anyway. The only issue is that you would have to assemble the head and then measure for the required lash caps. The lash caps are available in about 40 different sizes and are around $6 a piece...so I guess that one could order all of them, but it's gonna run you a few hundred scrillo if you buy multiples of each size-lol. It could make future valve adj a hassle too as you would have to first measure, and potentially order, and then wait for new lash caps.
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Last edited by stash1; Fri, Apr-12-2019 at 09:57:50 PM.
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Old Fri, Apr-12-2019, 10:47:06 PM   #90
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Default Re: S54 Forged engine rebuild advice?

I know you didn't ask for my opinion but I'll share it anyway. Having used that new supertech retainer kit it seems like a lot of trouble and additional labor $ to prevent a problem that shouldn't be occurring if the engine is built properly.

I've only done one or two 1000hp S54's so maybe at that power level the traditional shim has problems, but that hasn't been my experience.
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Discussing S54 Forged engine rebuild advice? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)