BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Mon, Jun-05-2017, 11:54:40 PM   #11
Slowmobile
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Slowmobile is on a distinguished road
Location: Los Angeles

United States




Default Re: E46 m3 p0014 issue

ah ok. just curious what are your adaptation values at? and did you move the splines in and out of the VANOS bore while it was off the engine?
__________________
Legen... Wait For It... ///M
Jump to top Slowmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Mon, Jun-05-2017, 11:54:40 PM   #12
Zroman610
Registered User
 
Zroman610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 92
Reputation: 0 Zroman610 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Napalm View Post
Well, There is oil going everywhere except between the camshaft hubs, spring disc and the cam gear. It's sandwhiched and bolted together. I tried to find some pictures of this part, but can't find any. I'm going off of memory from years ago too, so it's hard to describe. But there is a flat-ish disc in between the camshaft hubs and the cam gear. It all bolts together with the six hex bolts which also allow the cam gears to be adjusted. If there is oil there when it's assembled it can definitely slip (i'm pretty sure this is what happened to me). I NEVER (dare I say) leave bolts untorqued. I always double and triple check everything. Additionally, I KNOW for a fact that I left oil all over the spring disc and hub when I reassembled. So it seems most likely that this was the cause of my timing problems. When I took it all apart and reassembled, I cleaned and dried everything, and never saw the timing problem again after that. It was 80K miles ago.

As for your car not going into limp mode or running bad. It could be that yours is simply not slipping enough to cause it to run bad (mine did run poorly). Or it could of course just be a different problem entirely.


Thank you kind sir. I know for a fact there was oil in there when we took it apart and put it back on without cleaning that disc and spring. I'm thinking that's my issue because it totally makes sense that could make it slip. Guess I'll have to have him retime it a third time


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jump to top Zroman610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 12:43:38 AM   #13
02_LSB
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 823
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 02_LSB is on a distinguished road

United States




Default E46 m3 p0014 issue

OP. I just finished this job, so this is somewhat fresh in my head.

How did you time the car?

I guess what I am saying is, there are many ways in which it could wrong. Again, derived via reading raj's (beisan) posts and great help from members here.

1. Did you use the OE camshaft alignment tool? (One camshaft pin at a time, crankshaft pin inserted, harmonic balancer at 11)
2. Did you insert the splines prior to mounting the Vanos unit?
3. Did you follow beisan procedure for tightening hub bolts?
4. Are you sure you're inserting the shafts into the first hub splines? (I personally had issues with this one, as it is completely by feel)
5. Assuming you followed beisan procedure, Did you verify cams did not move when you tightened left and right intake and exhaust bolts, did you then loosen them 1/4 turn)?




A separate question that I could not figure out was, camshafts have about 5-7 degrees of play on both intake and exhaust side. Everything I've read, every author explains the critical aspect of catching that first spline - but how critical is it given the 5-7 degrees of freeedom on each shaft?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by 02_LSB; Tue, Jun-06-2017 at 01:16:59 AM.
Jump to top 02_LSB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 03:37:38 PM   #14
Zroman610
Registered User
 
Zroman610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 92
Reputation: 0 Zroman610 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02_LSB View Post
OP. I just finished this job, so this is somewhat fresh in my head.

How did you time the car?

I guess what I am saying is, there are many ways in which it could wrong. Again, derived via reading raj's (beisan) posts and great help from members here.

1. Did you use the OE camshaft alignment tool? (One camshaft pin at a time, crankshaft pin inserted, harmonic balancer at 11)
2. Did you insert the splines prior to mounting the Vanos unit?
3. Did you follow beisan procedure for tightening hub bolts?
4. Are you sure you're inserting the shafts into the first hub splines? (I personally had issues with this one, as it is completely by feel)
5. Assuming you followed beisan procedure, Did you verify cams did not move when you tightened left and right intake and exhaust bolts, did you then loosen them 1/4 turn)?




A separate question that I could not figure out was, camshafts have about 5-7 degrees of play on both intake and exhaust side. Everything I've read, every author explains the critical aspect of catching that first spline - but how critical is it given the 5-7 degrees of freeedom on each shaft?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


We followed the beisan diy step by step the second time. I had a shop do this so I did not see how it was done the first time but I watched him set the timing using the OE bridge and triple checked it so I'm not sure. Also tightened the hub bolts and backed out 1/4 turn like the diy says. Also notice I'm saying "we" after paying $1k to have all this work done since I don't have time to do it myself now here I am wasting multiple days and getting involved working on it.

I am going back out there on Friday and having him run the vanos test to see where it is failing and go from there. Thanks for your input. I will report back after taking it all apart and cleaning the springs/splines/disc/hubs VERY meticulously then redoing the timing. I can't really explain anymore than this because I'm not an expert when it comes to internal motor work, which is why I paid to have it done so my terminology probably isn't exactly correct lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Last edited by Zroman610; Tue, Jun-06-2017 at 03:41:30 PM.
Jump to top Zroman610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 03:41:13 PM   #15
Slowmobile
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Slowmobile is on a distinguished road
Location: Los Angeles

United States




Default Re: E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by 02_LSB View Post
A separate question that I could not figure out was, camshafts have about 5-7 degrees of play on both intake and exhaust side. Everything I've read, every author explains the critical aspect of catching that first spline - but how critical is it given the 5-7 degrees of freeedom on each shaft?
Actually funny thing is Beisan is the only source that says which tooth doesnt matter IIRC, as long as you get the spline in the first tooth that fits. Personally I think every tooth SHOULD work, even the suboptimal ones. However, that assumes cam timing is spot on. The less optimal your splines are, the less advance your timing can be adjusted. So lets say your CAMs are overretarded when set, because your spline has less ability to advance, you may not get the full range of motion that the VANOS was designed to provide.
__________________
Legen... Wait For It... ///M
Jump to top Slowmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 03:44:46 PM   #16
Zroman610
Registered User
 
Zroman610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 92
Reputation: 0 Zroman610 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
Actually funny thing is Beisan is the only source that says which tooth doesnt matter IIRC, as long as you get the spline in the first tooth that fits. Personally I think every tooth SHOULD work, even the suboptimal ones. However, that assumes cam timing is spot on. The less optimal your splines are, the less advance your timing can be adjusted. So lets say your CAMs are overretarded when set, because your spline has less ability to advance, you may not get the full range of motion that the VANOS was designed to provide.


This is where I get confused with the DIY because I am no expert with timing a motor nor a vanos expert but I do remember him inserting the splines in the first tooth that fit. But the shop I paid to have it done is a reputable shop from my understanding so he SHOULD know how to do this. Not throwing any names around until we figure out what's wrong on Friday. Now if this happens a fourth time, a name will be mentioned along with a warning to avoid said shop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jump to top Zroman610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 03:46:00 PM   #17
Slowmobile
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Slowmobile is on a distinguished road
Location: Los Angeles

United States




Default Re: E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zroman610 View Post
We followed the beisan diy step by step the second time. I had a shop do this so I did not see how it was done the first time but I watched him set the timing using the OE bridge and triple checked it so I'm not sure. Also tightened the hub bolts and backed out 1/4 turn like the diy says. Also notice I'm saying "we" after paying $1k to have all this work done since I don't have time to do it myself now here I am wasting multiple days and getting involved working on it.

I am going back out there on Friday and having him run the vanos test to see where it is failing and go from there. Thanks for your input. I will report back after taking it all apart and cleaning the springs/splines/disc/hubs VERY meticulously then redoing the timing. I can't really explain anymore than this because I'm not an expert when it comes to internal motor work, which is why I paid to have it done so my terminology probably isn't exactly correct lol.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
For reference, for quite a few of my retiming efforts, I did not remove the hub at all to clean off the oil. I just loosened the bolts, which invariably let some oil drip/flow between the cam and the hub. My results never changed. And the last time I put it back together, I cleaned up everything real clean, same result. Im using the S62 diaphragm springs. Are you using those?
__________________
Legen... Wait For It... ///M
Jump to top Slowmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 03:47:11 PM   #18
Slowmobile
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Slowmobile is on a distinguished road
Location: Los Angeles

United States




Default Re: E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zroman610 View Post
This is where I get confused with the DIY because I am no expert with timing a motor nor a vanos expert. But the shop I paid to have it done is a reputable shop from my understanding so he SHOULD know how to do this. Not throwing any names around until we figure out what's wrong on Friday. Now if this happens a fourth time, a name will be mentioned along with a warning to avoid said shop.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just tell him to do it if he isn't. It takes an extra 2 minutes of work when putting the VANOS back together.
__________________
Legen... Wait For It... ///M
Jump to top Slowmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 03:48:08 PM   #19
Zroman610
Registered User
 
Zroman610's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 92
Reputation: 0 Zroman610 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowmobile View Post
For reference, for quite a few of my retiming efforts, I did not remove the hub at all to clean off the oil. I just loosened the bolts, which invariably let some oil drip/flow between the cam and the hub. My results never changed. And the last time I put it back together, I cleaned up everything real clean, same result. Im using the S62 diaphragm springs. Are you using those?


Yep s62 springs were used. So you are having an issue with this code as well or you're just saying oil being on the cam/hub doesn't matter?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jump to top Zroman610 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Tue, Jun-06-2017, 03:57:39 PM   #20
Slowmobile
Na Na Na Na Na Na Na Na
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 423
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Slowmobile is on a distinguished road
Location: Los Angeles

United States




Default Re: E46 m3 p0014 issue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zroman610 View Post
Yep s62 springs were used. So you are having an issue with this code as well or you're just saying oil being on the cam/hub doesn't matter?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Nope I had intake overretarded. I believe yours is intake overadvanced. Timing thing more or less at least from what I can gather. I don't think oil on the cam/hub matters.

When you remove the hub after the car has been used, you will find it hard to remove the little round plates with the ears that go on top of the diaphragm spring from the camshaft bosses which it sits on. Hard meaning it doesnt just fall out if you lightly pull on it, because there's a thin layer of oil between the camshaft bosses and that plate. If that oil indeed was causing slipping and messing up timing, you would expect timing to go out during normal usage, which is why I believe the oil between those 2 pieces doesnt matter. I guess a way to check is see if the hub bolts are slammed up against one side or the other of the camshaft cutouts (the 6 cutouts on the camshaft that allows the hub to be rotated). If it is, then it slipped for sure. If not, then it probably didnt slip.
__________________
Legen... Wait For It... ///M

Last edited by Slowmobile; Tue, Jun-06-2017 at 04:01:03 PM.
Jump to top Slowmobile is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:14:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing E46 m3 p0014 issue in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)