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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Mon, Apr-03-2017, 01:17:31 PM   #21
Zroman610
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximz View Post
Im sorry to hear, that just sucks, you were kind of in uncharted territory it seems like, but with a failure of this magnitude, its really fishy, pictures of the aftermath would be interesting to analyze and trace it to the critical point.
Ps this got me paranoid and im at 113k, so next week ill knock it out at some point, also what do you mean by "ti cking", are we talking the obvious bigggg ass marble in a can noise increasing under load (like vanos knock but more pronounced), was it audible in the cabin with windows up or down whilr driving, audible at idle?

Bearings seems to last anywhere from 80-120k miles depending how it's been driven/taken care of. In this case, it seems the PO of his car didn't take the best care of it and/or beat the piss out of it. Not trash talking the OP as that definitely sucks big time. But as long as the car has been warmed up properly and oil changed regularly the bearings will last 100k no problem.

At 113k if you're haven't been done under recall, I'd do them soon for sure. My buddy just did his with 110k and his were bad but not as bad as the OP's. Mine were done at 25k under recall so I will do mine at 125k just to be safe. Hope this helps.


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Old Mon, Apr-03-2017, 02:06:29 PM   #22
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

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Originally Posted by ApolloTheGod View Post
Update: I drove the car hard for the first time since bearing replacement and the crank decided to split in half and blew out the oil pan and also threw a rod and part of a piston out the side of the block. It's now safe to say if you have bearings like mine, you're engine is FUBAR. I don't want to see trash talk, I'm simply keeping this informational as S54s are now aging and this is very important information.


Ouch!!!!!
Can't believe your bad luck.
That's not just a failure.
That's a catastrophe!
Previous owner(s) must have been abusive to her and you got the fallout.


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Old Mon, Apr-03-2017, 02:08:19 PM   #23
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

Rod bearings should be replaced as oil analysis dictates. There's people with 250,000 miles on the original bearings. And people that need the replaced with <50,000 miles (probably not any street cars in that category). Driving style dictates wear rates. If you set the rev limiter to 7000rpm from new, you could likely get away with never replacing them.

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Originally Posted by ApolloTheGod View Post
The only oil analysis you need to do to see this level of failure is just looking at the top of the oil filter
I'd say your engine is solid evidence the pop the cap and look strategy only works once it's too late. Real oil analysis (not popping the cap and looking) is the key to catching it before it damages the crank.

... which sadly doesn't help on most s65s-- BMW changed the bearing material to one that doesn't show up on oil analysis, so there's no way to know on those engines

I do oil analysis on every one of my cars, every oil change. It's cheap, and there's so much you can learn to prevent expensive failures. Even my suburban, which has one of the most reliable engines ever made (small block chevy V8).
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Old Mon, Apr-03-2017, 04:49:18 PM   #24
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximz View Post
Im sorry to hear, that just sucks, you were kind of in uncharted territory it seems like, but with a failure of this magnitude, its really fishy, pictures of the aftermath would be interesting to analyze and trace it to the critical point.
Ps this got me paranoid and im at 113k, so next week ill knock it out at some point, also what do you mean by "ti cking", are we talking the obvious bigggg ass marble in a can noise increasing under load (like vanos knock but more pronounced), was it audible in the cabin with windows up or down whilr driving, audible at idle?
Paranoia could end up saving your motor. I tried to fix mine and I knew this may happen but it was either this or have no running engine for a while and I took my chances. I did not load the engine too hard for this failure to happen. I got about a quarter mile down the road (remember I have already put hours on the engine) and I started hearing a loud audible rod knock sound (marble in a can you describe). I could hear it with the windows down under acceleration and not idle. 3k RPMs to 5k it is most pronounced. It kept getting worse really quickly. It went from a 1 to a 10 in about thirty seconds and completely unexpectedly it just blew up. I have a hole in my block about the size of a fist. Oil went everywhere in my bay. I'll be pulling the motor very soon to check it out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zroman610 View Post
Bearings seems to last anywhere from 80-120k miles depending how it's been driven/taken care of. In this case, it seems the PO of his car didn't take the best care of it and/or beat the piss out of it. Not trash talking the OP as that definitely sucks big time. But as long as the car has been warmed up properly and oil changed regularly the bearings will last 100k no problem.

At 113k if you're haven't been done under recall, I'd do them soon for sure. My buddy just did his with 110k and his were bad but not as bad as the OP's. Mine were done at 25k under recall so I will do mine at 125k just to be safe. Hope this helps.
It would seem the PO left me with a failed motor. Like I said, I did everything I could on my end short of rebuilding. The crank measured fine but clearly it was not. Since I had the car I follow all the normal warm up processes and such but it was already too late. If I was a bit more patient I would have gotten an oil analysis but it was an impromptu purchase. Scary thing: This S54 was manufactured in 04/07 so this engine had the "BMW rod bearing fix".

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Originally Posted by pwsull View Post
Ouch!!!!!
Can't believe your bad luck.
That's not just a failure.
That's a catastrophe!
Previous owner(s) must have been abusive to her and you got the fallout.
Bad luck indeed. It seemed fine for a few days and then out of no where this happened.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Rod bearings should be replaced as oil analysis dictates. There's people with 250,000 miles on the original bearings. And people that need the replaced with <50,000 miles (probably not any street cars in that category). Driving style dictates wear rates. If you set the rev limiter to 7000rpm from new, you could likely get away with never replacing them.



I'd say your engine is solid evidence the pop the cap and look strategy only works once it's too late. Real oil analysis (not popping the cap and looking) is the key to catching it before it damages the crank.

... which sadly doesn't help on most s65s-- BMW changed the bearing material to one that doesn't show up on oil analysis, so there's no way to know on those engines

I do oil analysis on every one of my cars, every oil change. It's cheap, and there's so much you can learn to prevent expensive failures. Even my suburban, which has one of the most reliable engines ever made (small block chevy V8).
I agree with all your statements on the matter. Without a doubt you are correct. Seeing that much copper was really too much. Pop the cap and see it = your engine is FUBAR. I only had this motor for 1500 miles and about two weeks now so this is the PO's doing.
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Old Mon, Apr-03-2017, 09:45:00 PM   #25
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ApolloTheGod View Post
Paranoia could end up saving your motor. I tried to fix mine and I knew this may happen but it was either this or have no running engine for a while and I took my chances. I did not load the engine too hard for this failure to happen. I got about a quarter mile down the road (remember I have already put hours on the engine) and I started hearing a loud audible rod knock sound (marble in a can you describe). I could hear it with the windows down under acceleration and not idle. 3k RPMs to 5k it is most pronounced. It kept getting worse really quickly. It went from a 1 to a 10 in about thirty seconds and completely unexpectedly it just blew up. I have a hole in my block about the size of a fist. Oil went everywhere in my bay. I'll be pulling the motor very soon to check it out.



It would seem the PO left me with a failed motor. Like I said, I did everything I could on my end short of rebuilding. The crank measured fine but clearly it was not. Since I had the car I follow all the normal warm up processes and such but it was already too late. If I was a bit more patient I would have gotten an oil analysis but it was an impromptu purchase. Scary thing: This S54 was manufactured in 04/07 so this engine had the "BMW rod bearing fix".



Bad luck indeed. It seemed fine for a few days and then out of no where this happened.



I agree with all your statements on the matter. Without a doubt you are correct. Seeing that much copper was really too much. Pop the cap and see it = your engine is FUBAR. I only had this motor for 1500 miles and about two weeks now so this is the PO's doing.
Somehow i feel like PO knew the jig was up and time to get rid of it, sucks not shit you can do.
Do you know which cylinder was it that ate shit first, was it the HOF #5?
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Old Tue, Apr-04-2017, 02:25:31 AM   #26
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

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Originally Posted by Maximz View Post
Somehow i feel like PO knew the jig was up and time to get rid of it, sucks not shit you can do.
Do you know which cylinder was it that ate shit first, was it the HOF #5?
Judging by the fist size hole in the side of my block, it was cylinder 5 that threw the rod. I found three of my pistons in my oil pan so it seems it was more than cylinder 5 but 5 went first and likely caused the others to fail
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Old Wed, Apr-05-2017, 06:46:00 PM   #27
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

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Can you post a pic of this please? I was certain my #5 cylinder has to be in the hall of fame for worst rod bearing set. I got the same ticking at about 3-3.5k and knew right away what it was. Limped home and saw copper in my oil and immediately ordered my rod bearing kit.
I didn't keep the old bearings or take pics.

Sorry to hear about the motor, that sucks
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Old Sat, Apr-08-2017, 08:59:08 AM   #28
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

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I didn't keep the old bearings or take pics.

Sorry to hear about the motor, that sucks
Yep it sucks big time! Thankfully this build is progressing quickly. I'm trying to make Bimmerfest West so I just decided to buy a running S65 today so I can make that date. Stroker and motor build will take weeks.

My motor did not survive those bad rod bearings and the hole in the block is around cylinder 5 which was the worst bearing set. I'll see if I have the time to do a forensic analysis of the bottom end before selling it
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Old Sat, Apr-08-2017, 11:24:40 AM   #29
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

I'm sorry I dont mean to be an assh0le. But I have to say a few things for people revisiting this thread. No one ever reuses a scored crank without refinish it at least and checking the clearance.. also you had shards of metal missing somewhere in your oil system. Those probabaly killed ur oil pump making you lose pressure and/or clogged oil passages. Thirdly you have no way of knowing what the clearance is like after such damage,finger nail test doesn't do anything.. nor do calipers. short of plastigague-ing it ,it would be a tossup. Also the propper way of breaking in is 1200 miles or so mild driving then an oil chang not an over night of idling... maybe this engine doesnt make sufficient load or oil pressure at idle to break in new bearings. Also what rod bolts did you use? And to what spec....So again, no to be an assh0le, but you still could've saved it. It still was nowhere near dead imho. In any case, I'm really sorry for your loss man, and please take my comments in a none offensive way as I really do Wish you the best of luck in the future.
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Old Sat, Apr-08-2017, 11:53:34 AM   #30
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Default Re: Knocking sound when accelerating...

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I'm sorry I dont mean to be an assh0le. But I have to say a few things for people revisiting this thread. No one ever reuses a scored crank without refinish it at least and checking the clearance.. also you had shards of metal missing somewhere in your oil system. Those probabaly killed ur oil pump making you lose pressure and/or clogged oil passages. Thirdly you have no way of knowing what the clearance is like after such damage,finger nail test doesn't do anything.. nor do calipers. short of plastigague-ing it ,it would be a tossup. Also the propper way of breaking in is 1200 miles or so mild driving then an oil chang not an over night of idling... maybe this engine doesnt make sufficient load or oil pressure at idle to break in new bearings. Also what rod bolts did you use? And to what spec....So again, no to be an assh0le, but you still could've saved it. It still was nowhere near dead imho. In any case, I'm really sorry for your loss man, and please take my comments in a none offensive way as I really do Wish you the best of luck in the future.
No offense taken. You've thrown out some valuable advice. The motor ran for over twenty-four hours and got over an equivalent mileage of 1500 if you want to think about it like that. Oil pressure was fine and I can confirm the pump was delivering supply as it should have. I also flushed the engine of oil and pulled almost all the debris as I could. The correct replacement rod bolts were used and torqued in the right sequence to the correct torque and angle of course.

I think the con rod and journal for cylinder 5 were the cause of this bad apple. I hear a lot about people freaking out over these engines blowing up but it's not an expensive fix at all by any means and OEM parts are cheap as hell on ebay. It is unfortunate she decided to go and you are probably right that I could have pulled the crank and gotten it properly measured and confirm any damage or lack there of.

You are certainly correct about every point you have raised above and I cannot dispute any of it as I'd be a fool. You seem to know quite well what you are talking about and I respect that. I played a gambling game and I got a bad hand and lost. I can tell you this: next time I find rod bearings like this in any motor, it's getting a full strip down and rebuild.

I'd like to point out that the car was off the ground and a torque load was placed on the motor for the break in period where I left it in gear to drive to put the torque load of the transmission, diff, and wheels on the motor and subsequently bearings. I then drove the car for an actual 500 road miles over the course of a couple days and I can assure you that the break in procedure was sufficient and correct. Again, I don't mean any of this to be rude or offensive either.

Sometimes talking about oil and engines and such things on these forums gets into a huge blowout

I hope we can all look at this as a learning experience/experiment. Our girls are getting older now and these issues will continue to be more common and I only hope that those of us here who may not be able to afford the time and resources for full rebuilds can be mindful when they see bearings similar to mine. It's beyond silly to bring heat on each other over this stuff because it discourages the sharing of information. I could have kept all this to myself to avoid any embarrassment at all but then there would be just that much less exposure to a real fatal issue that plagues some M motors. I'd rather we talk about these things than hide them out of fear of getting flamed. I'm a progressive thinker, I guess
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Discussing Knocking sound when accelerating... in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)