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Old Tue, Oct-16-2018, 05:39:48 PM   #1
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Default Can't get a read off the DME after tune (supposedly not locked)

Hello everyone, this is my first time i this section so forgive me if this is a noobish question/problem. I did a search but most information is over my head/lacking the context I need to understand. Anyway I took the car to Randy at Epic a while back to have the car custom dyno tuned. Afterwards the first problem I ran into was when I tried data logging, Prologger and Protuner would no longer read the DME. I assumed it was because that SW was licensed through TTFS so I could just no longer access it. Then I realized I couldn't connect to it to INPA either. Last week I decided to try bmwflasher so I could play around on ecuworx; couldn't get a read either, it gets an error and saves a zero memory file. Yesterday I tried the thing I should have tired first which was use Randy's interface SW since I had the ECI cable from him I just never bothered to try to use it. I was able to pull/clear DTC codes but couldn't use the read DME feature it wouldn't read the DME either. I reached out to Randy and he said yes they do encrypt the file but it should not interfere with diagnostic tools so he thinks I have something else going on. I've been procrastinating on this issue a while but now that I'm putting a new motor in the car this weekend I'm starting to get urgent to get this resolved so I'll be able to have the car retuned without issue. Is there anything else I should try before I go down the route of verginizing the dme through I think WinKFP? That looked like the only solution I saw from searching but I don't want to do anything drastic without know exactly what I'm doing. I'm going to see if I can get him to send me a new tune for the new motor so with the dme virginized I should be able to write the new tune over it. If he needs a read from the dme before he can do that though I'm in trouble.
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2001 E46 M3 - Slicktop Manual Coupe - Alpine White on Imola Red

Engine: Karbonius CSL airbox, Lang Racing stage 2.5 head, Schrick 288/280 cams & followers, Lang Racing rod journal widening kit w/ CP 12:1 87.5mm pistons & Carrillo rods, ARP head studs, Epic Motorsports tune, TMS Power Pulleys, ECS catch can, Supersprint V1 stepped headers & section 1, SGT scza section 3.
Drivetrain: Clutch Masters FX725, Clutch Masters Hydraulic TB, AKG stage II shifter, RE trans mounts, Motorsport 4.10 R&P, Revshift 80A diff bushings, mason clutch pedal.
Suspension/Brakes: Bilstein PSS9's, RE RSM's, UUC sway bars, PFC direct drive rotors, PFC 08's, Nitto NT05's, Motorsport Hardware 75mm stud kit.
Coming soon: Cobra Nogaro seats, Supersprint dual 2.5" section 2, RTD V2 mini shifter, BW Street/Track rear camber arms, Turner monoball RTAB's.

IG: Zach_e46M
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Old Wed, Oct-17-2018, 02:19:33 PM   #2
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Default Re: Can't get a read off the DME after tune (supposedly not locked)

Well WinKFP doesn't actually "virginize" the way that we use that term around here. When we say "virginize" we don't just mean "reset the tune to factory" we mean "also erase all the VIN and EWS data thats stored in the double secret areas of the ECU". WinKFP can't do that.

But what I think you meant to say is still probably correct.. that with WinKFP you could restore it to a 'factory original' program and calibration (tune). But if the current DME is having communcations problems its very hard to say if you'll be able to pull that off or not... If none of the other tools can talk to the DME, WinKFP might not be able to flash to it either.

Hard to say if you have some wiring or a DME problem, or whatever Epic does to 'encrypt'. I'm betting they just move maps around so that in fact (per Randy) it shoudlnt have been a problem to read with any of those tools... so that leaves either the DME having a real fault, or, a car wiring issue...

Can you borrow another DME from a buddy to toss in the car and see if you can read that? It won't start the car unless its EWS-deleted, but at least you can try to comm with it. If you can't, then sure there seems like a wiring problem in the car. If you can, then yep seems like your DME has some issue.

Yes, if you are able reset to a factory tune, then he can just send you whatever you need to flash there, he should have no need for you to pull a read (any respectable tuners save backups of your tunes when they start the job...)

BTW I presume your INPA can see all the other modules in the car fine and read codes and live data blah blah blah. ie. we assume its not a PC/software/cable problem...

(also - to clarify... you had TTFS tune on the car, then moved to Epic? whose tune will you be using w/ the new motor? )
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Old Wed, Oct-17-2018, 08:26:27 PM   #3
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Default Re: Can't get a read off the DME after tune (supposedly not locked)

Quote:
Originally Posted by geargrndr View Post
Well WinKFP doesn't actually "virginize" the way that we use that term around here. When we say "virginize" we don't just mean "reset the tune to factory" we mean "also erase all the VIN and EWS data thats stored in the double secret areas of the ECU". WinKFP can't do that.

But what I think you meant to say is still probably correct.. that with WinKFP you could restore it to a 'factory original' program and calibration (tune). But if the current DME is having communcations problems its very hard to say if you'll be able to pull that off or not... If none of the other tools can talk to the DME, WinKFP might not be able to flash to it either.

Hard to say if you have some wiring or a DME problem, or whatever Epic does to 'encrypt'. I'm betting they just move maps around so that in fact (per Randy) it shoudlnt have been a problem to read with any of those tools... so that leaves either the DME having a real fault, or, a car wiring issue...

Can you borrow another DME from a buddy to toss in the car and see if you can read that? It won't start the car unless its EWS-deleted, but at least you can try to comm with it. If you can't, then sure there seems like a wiring problem in the car. If you can, then yep seems like your DME has some issue.

Yes, if you are able reset to a factory tune, then he can just send you whatever you need to flash there, he should have no need for you to pull a read (any respectable tuners save backups of your tunes when they start the job...)

BTW I presume your INPA can see all the other modules in the car fine and read codes and live data blah blah blah. ie. we assume its not a PC/software/cable problem...

(also - to clarify... you had TTFS tune on the car, then moved to Epic? whose tune will you be using w/ the new motor? )
Thanks for explaining that better. Yes I definitely wouldn't want to wipe the dme clean more like just a factory reset if it came down to that. But good point about likely having the same issues of communicating with the dme with WinKFP as the other tools. Basically if I could do that I wouldn't need to reset it anyways. I really doubt it's a wiring issue since none of it was touched anytime close to before and after. I've tried multiple laptops and cables so that rules that out also. So it's either an encryption issue or a dme issue (might be a good time to convert to an HP dme \_(ツ)_/) Sounds like I've got some other things to try though. My motor got delayed a few days so I have a little more time to screw with it. And yes I went from a TTFS to to an Epic tune. My plan has been to retune the new motor with Epic assuming the cost to go from maf based tune to mafless tune wouldn't be killer (which it wasn't). After talking with Randy he wants me to just bring the car down since I'm local after I break the new motor in on the current tune and we'll re-dyno tune the car there. This may take care of the issue completely if he either doesn't have any issues communicating with the dme or has better ability to troubleshoot it.
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2001 E46 M3 - Slicktop Manual Coupe - Alpine White on Imola Red

Engine: Karbonius CSL airbox, Lang Racing stage 2.5 head, Schrick 288/280 cams & followers, Lang Racing rod journal widening kit w/ CP 12:1 87.5mm pistons & Carrillo rods, ARP head studs, Epic Motorsports tune, TMS Power Pulleys, ECS catch can, Supersprint V1 stepped headers & section 1, SGT scza section 3.
Drivetrain: Clutch Masters FX725, Clutch Masters Hydraulic TB, AKG stage II shifter, RE trans mounts, Motorsport 4.10 R&P, Revshift 80A diff bushings, mason clutch pedal.
Suspension/Brakes: Bilstein PSS9's, RE RSM's, UUC sway bars, PFC direct drive rotors, PFC 08's, Nitto NT05's, Motorsport Hardware 75mm stud kit.
Coming soon: Cobra Nogaro seats, Supersprint dual 2.5" section 2, RTD V2 mini shifter, BW Street/Track rear camber arms, Turner monoball RTAB's.

IG: Zach_e46M
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