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Old Sat, Apr-21-2018, 11:31:49 PM   #111
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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That's sick! I am so jealous I didn't go to the race this year (it's a trek from seattle tho).

boo marc for me. loudly.
I’m surprised he didn’t come to the medical center after his incident during qualifying. Maybe he’ll pay us a visit tomorrow morning. If he does, I’ll boo him for ya
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Old Sun, Apr-22-2018, 04:30:14 AM   #112
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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Was just taking to a friend of mine who’s a genius at the local dealership. He told me that for any project where the intake manifold had to be removed (not infrequent) on the x5M and x6m (same engine as this), the engine has to be removed from the car.

Totally not harder to work on
Thanks to direct injection, the intake ports / valves on most current engines have to be media blasted. This procedure will be required several times during the life of a vehicle. For this vehicle, the engine will have to be dropped. That's going to cost serious bucks. Some manufacturers are going to direct and port injection to alleviate this issue.
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Old Sun, Apr-22-2018, 04:36:13 AM   #113
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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4. What are these other “common failure” items that would necessitate intake manifold removal in an S63? The reason we think of intake manifolds as being often removed is because they’re typically located in the top of the engine and restrict access to other components. Those other components haven’t moved... you just remove exhaust manifold now in Hot V engines.
I'm speechless at this reply. Periodic intake manifold removal is a SOP on any direct injection engine.
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Old Sun, Apr-22-2018, 06:05:47 AM   #114
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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I'm speechless at this reply. Periodic intake manifold removal is a SOP on any direct injection engine.
The engine does not need to be removed to take off the intake manifolds.
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Old Mon, Apr-23-2018, 11:35:00 AM   #115
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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The engine does not need to be removed to take off the intake manifolds.
I feel like we need to work on your reading comprehension skills, or at least convey to you that sometimes you have to read past the first page of the TIS into the substeps required to get there:





I have highlighted the relevant passage to assist you.

https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/f...its/1VnXZX5iSo
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Old Mon, Apr-23-2018, 12:37:37 PM   #116
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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1. According to TIS the engine is not removed for knock sensor R/R. It is supported by a brace while the mounts are removed. I believe the subframe is left in place. Access is through the wheel well.

2. I don’t see how it’s any different from knock sensor replacement on any other BMW V8. Only difference is the removed intake manifold would be an exhaust manifold with regular flow heads. Either way it’s still the same amount of work.

3. Knock sensor probably more reliable not being within 2” of 1000+ deg exhaust manifolds with reverse flow heads.

4. What are these other “common failure” items that would necessitate intake manifold removal in an S63? The reason we think of intake manifolds as being often removed is because they’re typically located in the top of the engine and restrict access to other components. Those other components haven’t moved... you just remove exhaust manifold now in Hot V engines.

5. It’s still better than drilling & gluing ur car together so the trunk floor doesn’t tear the **** out.
1. See above

2. Exhaust components are more of a PITA to remove than intake components 100% of the time. I never go into an exhaust project without new hardware ready to go, because it's pretty much a given bolts will snap. If nothing else, most of the nuts are one time use parts. Having to remove the engine to do it is also significantly different.

3. I can't speak for every BMW engine ever, but at least on the s62 and s54, the knock sensors are also on the intake side of the engine. So, don't think this is buying them any increased knock sensor reliability.

4. How about the routine maintenance that all BMW direct injection engines require-- walnut blasting.

5. Amusing you find the e46 to be the standard to what all cars should be compared. But, not certain how a 15 minute one time procedure is worse than a routine/repeated 15 hour procedure
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Old Mon, Apr-23-2018, 03:41:31 PM   #117
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

BMW has changed their procedures then. The e70 x5m instructions I searched on my phone did not require engine removal. I'm sure you could still do it this way if you wanted. Likely BMW changed it cuz it was faster to just remove the entire thing and do the work on a bench.

Still in the end this is the same for any "Hot V" Ferrari, merc, alfa, Porsche. You want 600whp with a warranty? The packaging is going to be tight. That's the price paid.

Besides even if valves clogged to shit after 80000mi this thing will still make 200 more HP than any NA s54.

Last edited by Serious; Mon, Apr-23-2018 at 03:48:47 PM.
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Old Mon, Apr-23-2018, 03:59:42 PM   #118
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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BMW has changed their procedures then. The e70 x5m instructions I searched on my phone did not require engine removal. I'm sure you could still do it this way if you wanted. Likely BMW changed it cuz it was faster to just remove the entire thing and do the work on a bench.

Still in the end this is the same for any "Hot V" Ferrari, merc, alfa, Porsche. You want 600whp with a warranty? The packaging is going to be tight. That's the price paid.

Besides even if valves clogged to shit after 80000mi this thing will still make 200 more HP than any NA s54.
Always a bad sign when the faster way to do a job is the remove the engine. Are you still taking the position these new cars aren't significantly harder to work on?

Someone should tell the Americans-- a quick look at the hellcat and Z06 forums shows the knock sensors are still replaceable with the engine in the car, despite being 600hp+ with a warranty.

Agreed that the e46 M3 is the standard to which all cars should be compared
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Old Mon, Apr-23-2018, 04:55:51 PM   #119
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

Is it fair to say that the DI engines in the 987.2 S models are going to be a much bigger PITA than the non-DI base models?

Sorry for the thread jack, but it's relevant to my interests...
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Old Mon, Apr-23-2018, 05:05:29 PM   #120
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Default Re: BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5.

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Always a bad sign when the faster way to do a job is the remove the engine. Are you still taking the position these new cars aren't significantly harder to work on?

Someone should tell the Americans-- a quick look at the hellcat and Z06 forums shows the knock sensors are still replaceable with the engine in the car, despite being 600hp+ with a warranty.

Agreed that the e46 M3 is the standard to which all cars should be compared
I am taking the position that I don't really give a shit at all. I am able to buy new enough cars that they almost never break and if they did and it was an annoying job that I didn't feel like doing myself I would just pay someone to do it. I really couldn't give any ****s less about what a burden this thing will be at 95,000 miles.

I am pretty confident no matter what it will have less problems between 50-65k miles than my e46 had tho. That thing had horrible reliability. Worst of the 6 BMW's I've owned despite being one of the lower mileage ones. Didn't matter how EZ it was to fix cuz something else would just ****ing break or wear out the next month.
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Discussing BMW is NOT playin games with the F90 m5. in the Off Topic Forum - Place to discuss this and that. Note: We also have "request to join" forums: Guns and Fitness.
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