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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 08:14:09 PM   #1
VinceSE2
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Default Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

I've now come far enough in the development of the VinceSkinz (fka VincePlates) that I feel it's time to share what I'm up to.

Here are some pictures of the "Stage 1" skinz that'll hopefully help catch your interest.









And here are a couple of pictures of the front "Stage 2" skinz











And here's the story.

While repairing and reinforcing my personal M3 http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...p?p=1067164063 I really wanted to get something better than just a plate to cover the existing cracks.

Ideally I wanted something that was more of a "cup" rather than a plate. Something that would fit snugly against the RACP and essentially add more thickness to it.

The closest I could find where the Redish plates. So I got them.

They are a great product, but while welding them to my RACP I kept thinking about that "cup" option. And could there be a way to avoid this welding mess while still securing the plate/cup to the threaded receiver inside the RACP?

After thinking about this for a long time, and having developed the Epoxy/Rivet version of the VinceBar kit, I felt I had figured it out. While also addressed a few issues not yet covered, as well as introducing a couple of "Industry firsts".

So I decided to develop what I called the VincePlates at that time.

As some of you already know, you can read more about the background and early development in this thread http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=552534

If your impatient jump to post #28


So lets talk about the design itself.

This application is designed primarily for epoxy/rivet installation. Mostly because I feel there's really no such design commercially available today (at least not that I've seen), and because I really believe it's very beneficial to not have to weld. And thus not have to deal with the heat related consequences associated with welding.

That said, it'll certainly be possible to weld these on as well.

(While talking about epoxied plates, I have been asked multiple times if it would be possible to remove previously installed plates and move to the VinceSkinz.
If you currently have TMS style plates epoxied they should come off fairly smoothly with the use of a powerful heat gun. And after some cleaning up you should be good to install a set of VinceSkinz in a Stage of your choice.)

Unique features.

The VinceSkinz design offers these major benefits (which I believe have not previously been commercially available):

1. No welding required (but possible) - The VinceSkinz are designed with epoxy and rivets in mind. This means they can be installed without needing a welder. Thus potentially cutting cost (if youd need to hite a welder) and avoiding all heat related issues it also offers a clean and DIY friendly installation.
* The rivets secure the skinz to the base plate of the threaded receiver, as well as to all dual layer sheet metal areas in reach of the particular skin.
* The epoxy bonds the entire surface of the skin to the mating surface of the RACP. This adds thickness to the RACP as no gaps are present between the two.
* Welding is naturally still an option. The Vince Skinz should in fact be a lot easier to weld to the RACP as the sheet metal thicknesses are so much closer to each other. The rivet holes would be enlarged to accommodate plug welds.

2. Pre formed - The Vince Skinz are pre formed to snuggly fit against the RACP.

In addition to very efficiently utilizing the material (saving weight) by using a thinner skin which is tightly bonded to the RACP to provide exceptional strength, this also saves a lot of time during installation. And it makes the installation much easier then for instance having to form a plates during installation.

3. Smother stress transition - By using thinner sheet metal (1mm), and thinning the perimeters even further

(Notice how the perimeter has been ground at an angle in this picture)

there's no large step in thickness (going from the sub 1mm RACP skin to a 2mm or 3mm or more in some cases). Large steps create harmful stress concentrations that are prone to fatigue failure. Especially if that perimeter also has been welded and the material is weakened by the local heat from the weld.

So smoothening the stress transition is beneficial in terms of fatigue.

Thanks to the multi layer option (bullet 5 below) where each layer has a coverage difference which results in multiple thickness transitions

this smooth stress transition is preserved even at larger total skin thickness.

4. Multiple sizes - In an effort to address damage of varying degrees while at the same time minimizing the impact on the chassis and the labor required, the VinceSkinz come in different sizes and coverage.
If cracks are found at an early stage,







AND the VinceBar kit (or an equivalent RACP load reliving option) is installed along with the VinceSkinz, there's no need to install large skinz.

However, if the damage has gone so far that the cracks reach beyond the immediate vicinity of the mounting surface, and/or material is even missing from the RACP



Notice how the crack runs all the way to the end of the RACP skin to the right in this picture.

There's a VinceSkin that addresses this as well












This is the pre feb 2000 build date issue


There are various VinceSkin stages that addresses this as well.

5. Multilayer option - For anyone who wants/needs maximum strength, or needs to cover areas where the RACP may have holes, the VinceSkinz are designed to allow multiple layers.

The multi layer design of the VinceSkins provide:
• A very close fit against the underside of the RACP (hence "skins" rather than plates) made possible by the thinner sheet metal in each layer
• Digressive plate thickness providing a smooth stress transition
• Flexibility in terms of coverage and protection. Larger skins with more coverage for old RACP with existing cracks, and smaller skins for pristine, or replaced, RACP's with minimal or no cracks.
• Ability to mix and match skin layers to accommodate any special needs



TBC

Last edited by VinceSE2; Sat, May-20-2017 at 10:32:45 PM.
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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 08:14:49 PM   #2
VinceSE2
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Default Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

Reserved in case there's interest in a group buy


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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 08:39:05 PM   #3
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

Vince this is great news. Well done on another well thought out product for our cars.

I have the tms plates welded on so I will go for the Vince bar epoxy version for my own car very soon.
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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 08:48:52 PM   #4
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

Do you have any forecasts on what your price would be?

Is it safe to assume that an expoy installation is less work than welding?

Subscribing for the group buy. I just bought the PSDesign / Reddish plates but won't mind switching to the Vince Skins depending on price.
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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 09:51:17 PM   #5
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

You are a beast!!! Looks like another great product!

Just waiting for that SMG relocation kit now
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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 10:46:34 PM   #6
VinceSE2
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

Quote:
Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports View Post
Vince this is great news. Well done on another well thought out product for our cars.

I have the tms plates welded on so I will go for the Vince bar epoxy version for my own car very soon.

Thanks Ejaz!
Yes, you'll be perfectly fine with the TMS plates and the VinceBar kit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrCooperS View Post
Do you have any forecasts on what your price would be?

Is it safe to assume that an expoy installation is less work than welding?

Subscribing for the group buy. I just bought the PSDesign / Reddish plates but won't mind switching to the Vince Skins depending on price.
The introductory price for Stage 1 will be $150 and $200-ish for Stage 2. Prices for Stage 3 and up are TBD.

Included with the skinz are:
• Required rivets
• Etching metal prep for maximum epoxy adherence
• The massive installation time savings due to the pre formed geometry

How do you feel about these prices?


Quote:
Originally Posted by suaveflooder View Post
You are a beast!!! Looks like another great product!

Just waiting for that SMG relocation kit now
Thanks for the encouragement!
Yes, I feel bad that it keeps being pushed out. But I believe I might be able to positively surprise you with a twist or two in that product as well.



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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 11:24:57 PM   #7
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

I won't be needing these after your bar but I wanted to chime in and say thank you for your continuing dedication to the platform. Cheers to you sir!
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Old Sat, May-20-2017, 11:27:49 PM   #8
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

Just to make sure, I can weld these in place if I wanted to? Also how soon can I purchase a Stage 2? What modifications are needed on your vincebar to mate it with the mason x bar?


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Old Sun, May-21-2017, 12:09:08 AM   #9
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

Quote:
Originally Posted by suaveflooder View Post
You are a beast!!! Looks like another great product!

Just waiting for that SMG relocation kit now


LOL same here. Temps in the evening are around 39c!
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Old Sun, May-21-2017, 12:28:37 AM   #10
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Default Re: Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates)

Awesome work Vince, they look great! I definitely want a set with my VinceBar kit.

I guess the only issue is which ones to order. I don't know if there's cracks under the subframe until I drop it down. I visually inspected it and do not see any at this point.

The price point seems reasonable. Thanks for all the hard work Vince!
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Discussing Introducing the VinceSkinz (subframe plates) in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)