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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Thu, Apr-20-2017, 03:41:13 PM   #111
terraphantm
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

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Originally Posted by mcfreid View Post
The front csl is 30.8mm vs non-csl 27mm. The fact that it's hollow shouldn't matter much.

The rear csl (equivalent to z4m) is 22.5mm vs non-csl 21.5mm.

It seems quite clear that adding a stiffer front (up to a point) does increase traction and therefor speed through corners. Arguments about this increase only being valid for those with square setups or lowered suspensions or stiffer suspensions doesn't seem to be true as the csl has very minor adjustments in those regards.
1) As Ian mentioned, the bar being hollow does matter. Hypothetically if you had a 30.8mm OD and 26mm ID, the bar would be slightly less stiff than a solid 26mm bar

2) I don't know if you've ever seen a real CSL bar in real life, but it's not 30.8mm for the entire length. There are narrower sections (I'd estimate 27mm).


You can see the narrower sections here


If the bar was a uniform diameter throughout, probably could have estimated the ID based on weight (CSL bar is about 8lbs vs 15 for stock)
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Old Thu, Apr-20-2017, 04:00:09 PM   #112
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

Interesting. That looks like tubular bits shrunk/welded to solid portions. So probably its as stiff overall as a 27mm solid bar but lighter. So no different from standard as far as stiffness goes? Just the rear is a little bit stiffer. This should give a little less understeer?

Ive just fitted Turner arb's to my otherwise standard car. While I like the change in handling I dont think I like the added hardness to the ride. Ive got Continental Conti Sport M3 with 4mm tread which Im told have a hard ride so the combination is probably too much. I think Ill change back to standard at least while Ive got these tyres. I might try the csl rear.
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Old Thu, Apr-20-2017, 04:20:54 PM   #113
terraphantm
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

Stock (for coupes) is 26mm. If we assume the front bar is equivalent to a 27mm bar in stiffness, then that would be about 16% stiffer than stock (and the 22.5mm rear bar would be about 20% stiffer than the stock 21.5mm bar).

My gut says the front bar is stiffer than that though because BMW saw the need to use the steel brackets rather than the stock aluminum ones. (Convertible which has a factory 27mm bar still uses the aluminum brackets)
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Old Thu, Apr-20-2017, 04:47:49 PM   #114
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

Yes just measured my old bars and its as you say. So front and rear are a little stiffer on the CSL which makes sense. I think my Turners ones are much too stiff for a road car ie 30mm front and 25mm rear even though they are on their softest settings. Seemed a good idea at the time.

No point in just fitting the CSL rear then. Ive asked for prices for F & R CSL bars (assuming they fit) but I dont expect they will be cheap.
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Old Thu, Apr-20-2017, 05:45:15 PM   #115
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

I got my full kit (front and rear, new end links, new brackets, bushings, nuts/bolts) for $650 shipped a while ago from bmw-oem-parts.com
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Old Thu, Apr-20-2017, 06:47:09 PM   #116
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

FWIW, Hotchkis makes a kit with a tubular 30mm front bar. Not sure what the ID is, but it is about 4 lbs lighter than he stock bar. The interesting part is that they list the settings in percentage to the stock set up as follows:

Specifications: 1-3/16 in. (30mm) Tubular Front Bar 3 Way Adjustable. Rate Increase vs. Stock +11% +28% +49%. 1 in. (25mm) Tubular Rear Bar 2 Way Adjustable. Rate Increase vs. Stock +79% +105%. Note: May not fit convertibles

I have my front set to medium and the rear to soft. I was a little surprised at first that they are increasing the rear a lot more than the front, but figured I give it a try and like it. (one disclaimer. the rear bar does not clear the trailing arm well, nor does it allow for it to be set to soft when the car is lowered. I think it is a design flaw, but what I did is add a 3/8 spacer to there the bar mounts, thus moving it back a bit. I am not sure if that make it softer, with the rear points a bit further away, but that was probably a good thing if it did)
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Old Sat, Apr-22-2017, 12:08:40 PM   #117
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

The csl f&r arb's surprisingly turned out to be only slightly more expensive per pair as the standard ones so might suit me. The std rear is expensive while the csl rear is cheap and vice versa. Just need to be sure they will fit which they should do.

Ok only a little bit stiffer but I only use the car on the road and our roads are getting quite bad with unrepaired pot holes.
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Old Mon, Jun-19-2017, 08:51:26 AM   #118
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Default Re: Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it?

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Originally Posted by zaharias View Post
Yesterday I installed a H&R front anti roll bar put it in the middle setting.
You can definitely feel the car became more "tight". It's also a bit more firm at some road imperfections (we have awful roads here - I live in an island).
Did not manage to drive it a lot but I like it.
There are 3 holes, which one is the softest setting? I wanna try it.

Found this http://m3.madrussian.net/diy_front_eibach_sway.shtml
I read that you can set it also at different holes at each side. (??)
What will achieve by setting it that way does anyone know?


Iam on square apex 9.5 et35 255/35/18 and AC schnitzer suspension with GC street camber plates. (I also removed the rear bottom spring pads to lower the rear abit more yesterday).

I also weighted the bar and according to realoem/bmwfansinfo the H&R is ~2 kilos heavier.
I got a pair of oem CSL front anti roll bar bushings to try with my H&R front sway bar to see if they soften up things a bit. Maybe its my ACS suspension shot. I have already ordered a set of koni yellows. If it still is not comfy for me i will put the oem back.
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Discussing Aftermarket front sway bar: worth it? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)