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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Mon, Sep-06-2010, 11:42:07 PM   #101
Obioban
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Originally Posted by ClarkeBurns View Post
How are you getting your E46 to oversteer? I'm running 245/275s and it understeers like a ************
Add or remove throttle

Other than that, the normal:

Higher front tire pressure
Lower rear tire pressure
Larger front tire section
Smaller rear tire section
More negative front camber
More positive rear camber
Softer front springs
Stiffer rear springs
Thinner (weaker) front sway bar
Thicker (stronger) rear sway bar
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Old Tue, Sep-07-2010, 12:00:04 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Burrito, you've long been wanting a high torque engine. Maybe you should just get (gasp) not a BMW?

Mercs make nice cars with lots of torque.
The new Mustang is a really nice car.
The CTS-V will sure as hell feel fast, and isn't bad at all.

Why not go that route? It seems like it's what you really want...
I know what you mean, the M5 I have now has sufficient torq, with the S85 and all, but its not very agile feeling in the narrow roads, although it probably could handle just as well if I really chose to barrel thru with the large e60.

new mustang does seem like a good car, but I just cant bring myself to do it yet.
I enjoy the passion I hear in the S54, it's like a poor man's ferrari engine. I think Im just gonna get another e46 m3. this time the color Ive always wanted. LSB or AW>

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Originally Posted by M3_Dust View Post
the steering is good, it's quick and responsive, the feedback is also fine, but the suspension is very soft and floaty at higher speeds, and simply replacing the springs and dampers will not solve this problem. the stock subframe bushings used on the 135i are complete mush and need to be swapped-out with M3 bushings or powerflex (if they make them yet). I don't care to dump any money into modifying parts on this car that still function fine for daily driving and are covered under warranty, but if you are looking for the connected feel that the M3 gives, you are going to need to spend around $3k on suspension upgrades, and even then you still have an open differential, which is really not that bad in most situations, but in spirited driving, you will miss it, and it's quite expensive to swap an LSD into the car.

the 135i is a great daily driver, it is a lot of fun in stock tune, and with additional power it becomes a total hooligan. the sports seats are very comfortable, the interior ergonomics are good and the layout is simple and basic, the brakes are excellent for street use, and most people (who are not dedicated E46 M3 forum types) really like the car's looks and it actually gets a lot more attention and compliments than my M3 ever got in real life, and I have never seen another in my exact color combination and configuration on the road.

I would advise you to be very weary of any used car with the N54, and definitely do not buy one that has every had any type of piggyback computer installed.

there's not much point in me posting any more in this thread, a bunch of people who have no idea what they are talking about will take it from here, hopefully you saw all of the posts I made.

you can PM me or hit me up on msn messenger if you want to ask me anything else


the price difference between an identically equipped 135i vs. 335i is about $7k, the rest of what you said is completely subjective and I disagree.
thank you for that wonderful input. Your post has convinced me to stay with what I know, the M3. I guess one just has a lot of hesitations considering the e46 m3 is now 10 years old, you just get spooked that perhaps you're not remembering it right, maybe other cars have a better feel, a better connection, but indeed the e46 m3 has proven itself to be so amazingly ready to connect with you as a driver.

No, definitely not the fastest, but really, honestly, a really fast car, I cant even drive a really fast car near it's limit, at least in the e46 m3 I can get a little closer to the limit.

I also havent found any other engine I like as much as the S54. I m driving an S85 right now, but it seems to have a slight lumbering quality about it, it revs up to 8200 fine, just fine, seems to be fine sitting in high revs all day, but the engine doesnt seem to enjoy doing it, it just complies. call me crazy but i swear the s54 feels to me like it loves to rev up to 8k, it lives and was built for it. thats the feeling I get and I cant find that anywhere else, maybe in a gt3 or some ferrari, but those are out of my price right now.
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Old Tue, Sep-07-2010, 12:22:36 AM   #103
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I hear that. I used to want torque, but recently... I freaking love the S54
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Old Tue, Sep-07-2010, 12:35:50 AM   #104
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http://www.insideline.com/features/t...-vehicles.html mentions the M3 but not the 135.

I test drove the 135 but didn't push it to the limit or anything like that. I liked the M3 better because it was more roomy and had better utility.
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Old Tue, Sep-07-2010, 06:49:25 PM   #105
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I've owned both.

2008 135 6 speed manual
2002 M3 6 speed manual

135 - Awesome little car, but lacks the M refinements we have become spoiled by. The engine is phenomenal, the feel and responsiveness of the turbos, the low end torque, the feeling of being hit by a freight train when the turbos jump on! Downfall, due to the turbo nature, the HP curve becomes very flat and even declines higher in the rev range. Not a peaky motor like the typical NA M cars. Chassis, way too soft, but hey, this was designed as a mass market car, not an M car, so we have to be real with our expectations. We are not comparing apples to apples with these two cars. Interior, excellent, love the simplistic, yet teutonic feel. Perfect design and the dash is angled towards the driver ever so slightly like a proper BMW should.

I did install KW V2 coilovers on mine and it certainly helped to give much better performance and style, but it still lacked that raw on rails feel of an M car. This is likely due to the lack of harder bushings, control arm geometry, and the poor runflat tires. Additionally, the lack of LSD in the 135 is a HUGE hinderance.

E46 M3 - Brilliant car, excellent combination of all things M. I actually prefer this car over the 135 for driver feel and performance. This car COMMUNICATES! Feel, sound, smell, it ignites the senses, whereas the 135 is somewhat numb or muted.

Here is my comparison and the category winner....

Suspension - M3
Interior - 135
Exterior styling - 135 (yes the E46 M3 looks amazing, but 135 gets points for having a new fresh look...I agree the front headlights look awkward at times)
Exhaust sound - M3
Engine - This is a tie. E46 for raw race power and grunt, 135 for the daily drivability and the amazing twin turbo feel. Two totally different animals that both shine in their own unique way.
Car I enjoy driving the most - M3
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Old Tue, Sep-07-2010, 11:06:46 PM   #106
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There are some odd opinions in this thread. I've had my e46 M for three years, while my roommate has had his 135i for two years this week. I've been in the 135 for thousands of miles in this time.

As a few others have noted: the benefit of having a 135 is that you'll get to drive a lot of other BMWs as well. You'll have a different loaner car to try every few months as that's about all you get out of the fuel pump. It seems BMW has no idea how to design the high pressure units in the current cars. Roommate has been through 4 pumps (3 different revisions!) and they've all failed within months. The car isn't tracked or abused in any way, but is driven hard on the street. My Land Rovers were more reliable.

That said, the 135 is definitely a hoot. He has an almost-stripper model with manual sport seats (the side bolsters are oddly the only electric function of the seat) and they're honestly some of the best I've sat in for road trips, way better than the e46 M, even for curvy roads. The rest of the interior is junk though, with cheap plastic and pieces that break or fall off all the time. The radio is horrendous. The motor is fantastic, but sounds like garbage. There's always grunt. As a result, he keeps the RPMs a lot lower for cruising than I do in the M, and routinely averages 26 MPG for commuting. Pretty amazing, really. It is useless for more than 2 people. The trunk holds more stuff though, thanks to less incursion of the wheel wells compared to our cars. With PS2s on it, it can definitely hang with a stock e46 M3. The chassis is sublime. I'm not sure why folks think it's softer than the e9x chassis, or even the e46. It is WAY, WAY stiffer. There's basically no body flex at all. But, in usual BMW fashion, the suspension is a joke. Tons of body roll and poor shock control lead to nightmarish body motions and a poor ride. But it still isn't worse than a stock e46 M.

Is it better than my M with just Konis and sway bars? Most definitely not. It isn't faster either, unless I'm caught lugging mine.

And the 335 (especially e90, really) is better in every way over the 135, feeling more balanced, more comfortable, more luxurious, and much better put together, though still not an e46 M. The 1 series really misses the mark in my experience.
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Old Wed, Sep-08-2010, 01:44:42 AM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Add or remove throttle

Other than that, the normal:

Higher front tire pressure
Lower rear tire pressure
Larger front tire section
Smaller rear tire section
More negative front camber
More positive rear camber
Softer front springs
Stiffer rear springs
Thinner (weaker) front sway bar
Thicker (stronger) rear sway bar

I hear you. Can you explain to me the logic for the weaker front sway increasing the grip? Wouldn't that allow the front tires to roll more, decreasing their section and grip?
Sorry for the threadjack but it's been meandering for a while.
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Old Fri, Sep-10-2010, 06:00:35 AM   #108
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Originally Posted by nowclickthis View Post
There are some odd opinions in this thread. I've had my e46 M for three years, while my roommate has had his 135i for two years this week. I've been in the 135 for thousands of miles in this time.

As a few others have noted: the benefit of having a 135 is that you'll get to drive a lot of other BMWs as well. You'll have a different loaner car to try every few months as that's about all you get out of the fuel pump. It seems BMW has no idea how to design the high pressure units in the current cars. Roommate has been through 4 pumps (3 different revisions!) and they've all failed within months. The car isn't tracked or abused in any way, but is driven hard on the street. My Land Rovers were more reliable.

That said, the 135 is definitely a hoot. He has an almost-stripper model with manual sport seats (the side bolsters are oddly the only electric function of the seat) and they're honestly some of the best I've sat in for road trips, way better than the e46 M, even for curvy roads. The rest of the interior is junk though, with cheap plastic and pieces that break or fall off all the time. The radio is horrendous. The motor is fantastic, but sounds like garbage. There's always grunt. As a result, he keeps the RPMs a lot lower for cruising than I do in the M, and routinely averages 26 MPG for commuting. Pretty amazing, really. It is useless for more than 2 people. The trunk holds more stuff though, thanks to less incursion of the wheel wells compared to our cars. With PS2s on it, it can definitely hang with a stock e46 M3. The chassis is sublime. I'm not sure why folks think it's softer than the e9x chassis, or even the e46. It is WAY, WAY stiffer. There's basically no body flex at all. But, in usual BMW fashion, the suspension is a joke. Tons of body roll and poor shock control lead to nightmarish body motions and a poor ride. But it still isn't worse than a stock e46 M.

Is it better than my M with just Konis and sway bars? Most definitely not. It isn't faster either, unless I'm caught lugging mine.

And the 335 (especially e90, really) is better in every way over the 135, feeling more balanced, more comfortable, more luxurious, and much better put together, though still not an e46 M. The 1 series really misses the mark in my experience.
your roommate's car is a lemon.

my 135i is 2 years old November 4th, it has almost 26k miles and is only on the second fuel pump (I have the latest revision and the car has functioned flawlessly since it was installed), by the way, those have a 10 year/120k mile warranty. what's the warranty on the VANOS in the S54? because that failed on my brand new E46 M3 @ 27k miles and seems to be a trend if you do a simple search here. warranty or not, compare the cost of a fuel pump vs. a vanos unit, gears, chain, solenoids, etc.

I'm guessing that your buddy doesn't take very good care of his car anyway, mine is still as new in every way, nothing is falling apart, the interior is flawless, there are no strange noises from the engine (no rasp either).

I've had an E36 M3 for 9 years, had 2 E46 M3's for 5 years total as well, overall, the 135i is the single most reliable of the bunch so far.

keep in mind that I already answered multiple times that the E46 M3 is the better car, you might have skipped my plethora of posts in this thread, I also really like your configuration and mod list in your sig
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Old Fri, Sep-10-2010, 06:27:06 AM   #109
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your roommate's car is a lemon.
His and dozens of others according to Stevens Creek BMW. Maybe they're liars, but I'm not sure why they'd want to perpetuate an obvious epidemic of cars with failures that they still sell. Out of thousands of 1- and 3-series they've sold, is that a high percentage? Probably not, but I don't have their numbers. Then again, I've never heard of cars needing a fuel pump every other month. There are three revisions of fuel pumps from BMW for some reason, and I'm guessing it wasn't just for my roommate's car. Just a guess.

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warranty or not, compare the cost of a fuel pump vs. a vanos unit, gears, chain, solenoids, etc.
I'm not sure where I said failed VANOS is cheaper than failed fuel pumps, nor am I sure where I or anyone else has said they've gone through 4 VANOS/S54s either. Now that would be a lemon...

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I'm guessing that your buddy doesn't take very good care of his car anyway, mine is still as new in every way, nothing is falling apart, the interior is flawless, there are no strange noises from the engine (no rasp either).
You guessed wrong. His car is as well-maintained as anyone's I've known, with routine interior care and always-on-time maintenance (or extra off-cycle maintenance). The cheap interior in the 1 series is inexcusable, and that's coming from someone who's plenty displeased with the rattles in his e46 M. And the rasp sounds damn fine compared to the moan of the N54, but to each his own.

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keep in mind that I already answered multiple times that the E46 M3 is the better car, you might have skipped my plethora of posts in this thread, I also really like your configuration and mod list in your sig
Thanks. Keep in mind this wasn't to slam the 135i -- I made it very clear the car is a hoot to drive. But make no mistake, it is NOT an E46 M3, does not have the same enjoyable characteristics, and is not as luxurious, newer design or not.
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Old Fri, Sep-10-2010, 07:30:07 AM   #110
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most N54 cars are complete garbage, no argument there. I think I got pretty lucky so far, but I am also extremely meticulous in the care and operation of my cars.
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Discussing What's more fun, 135i or e46 m3? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)