BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006) > Coding and Tuning
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

Coding and Tuning Discuss all avenues of coding and tuning here!


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Thu, Jan-23-2020, 04:45:05 AM   #31
Chanman1029
Registered User
 
Chanman1029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 57
Reputation: 0 Chanman1029 is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

I was tuning with Randy this past monday and my car was pulling timing at around 7200 rpm. I’m slightly more convinced that maybe my ccv is the culprit bc there was a decent amount of smoke on the decel. I’ll probably end put my radium catch can on to see if that helps.
Jump to top Chanman1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Thu, Jan-23-2020, 05:49:48 PM   #32
10speed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 944
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 10speed is on a distinguished road
Location: Bremerton, WA

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanman1029 View Post
I was tuning with Randy this past monday and my car was pulling timing at around 7200 rpm. Im slightly more convinced that maybe my ccv is the culprit bc there was a decent amount of smoke on the decel. Ill probably end put my radium catch can on to see if that helps.
Well that's interesting. Keep us informed.
__________________
Jump to top 10speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Jan-23-2020, 06:39:47 PM   #33
PITT M3 RR
PA
 
PITT M3 RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 1,728
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 PITT M3 RR is on a distinguished road
Location: Pittsburgh

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10speed View Post
Would be great to log the knock sensors. I recall someone doing that on the forum here.

IAT and coolant temps were logged in BMWlogger. 80 IAT 2-3 degrees higher than ambient. Coolant temps were around 160f - 170f. Is that perhaps too cool?

Ill listen around to the engine again under load to see if any noises stand out. The motor has harder BW group n motor mounts but they do seem to cause any extreme vibrations under load.

I dont believe any changes where made to vanos timing to cause this. Basically made 325 on previous mods, added the airbox and made less power.
Looks like at your IAT/coolant temp combo your at about -1 on the map for ignition compensation.

Just to confirm, youre not mistaking the 80 IAT for Fahrenheit when its really Celsius right?

At 80C intake temperatures (176F IAT) and coolant at 176 youre at about -10 for ignition compensation. If Randy is asking for 28-30 WOT at the top of the band, youd see this behavior.

Ive been inside a lot of tunes...big name shops will simply go into this map and set MIN ignition between 24-26 regardless of conditions and just tell you that you need to run 93+.

I logged ALOT over the passed few months and saw some crazy ignition behavior. OEM Euro tune was my recurrently smoothest and even cylinder ignition rise hitting closest to target WOT values.
__________________
S54 E36 BUILD
Jump to top PITT M3 RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Jan-23-2020, 06:58:46 PM   #34
sullyz
Frequent Tire Investor
 
sullyz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Age: 44
Posts: 726
Reputation: 0 sullyz is on a distinguished road
Location: Bay Area





Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

I swapped the knock sensors and logged again. Still didn’t resolve my issues. Above 5k rpm it’s dropping to 18 degrees, then comes back up to a little over 20 between 7-8k rpm.
Going to try some higher octane fuel and log again in case the crappy CA 91 octane is an issue. If I rule out the fuel then I’m not sure where to go from there.
__________________

Mods: GC Coilovers|GC Sways|Pulleys|CSL airbox|SS V1 Stepped Headers|SS Sec.1|SS X-Pipe|SS Race Muffler|EPIC Alpha-N tune|19" BBS CH's|CSL bootlid|GT4 splitter|GTS wing|RTD shifter|Kirk rollbar|Recaro SPG's|Rear seat delete
Jump to top sullyz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Jan-23-2020, 08:34:38 PM   #35
10speed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 944
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 10speed is on a distinguished road
Location: Bremerton, WA

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PITT M3 RR View Post
Looks like at your IAT/coolant temp combo your at about -1 on the map for ignition compensation.

Just to confirm, youre not mistaking the 80 IAT for Fahrenheit when its really Celsius right?

At 80C intake temperatures (176F IAT) and coolant at 176 youre at about -10 for ignition compensation. If Randy is asking for 28-30 WOT at the top of the band, youd see this behavior.

Ive been inside a lot of tunes...big name shops will simply go into this map and set MIN ignition between 24-26 regardless of conditions and just tell you that you need to run 93+.

I logged ALOT over the passed few months and saw some crazy ignition behavior. OEM Euro tune was my recurrently smoothest and even cylinder ignition rise hitting closest to target WOT values.
I think I understand what you are saying, although, I do believe I was logging IAT in Fahrenheit.
__________________
Jump to top 10speed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Jan-23-2020, 09:59:40 PM   #36
PITT M3 RR
PA
 
PITT M3 RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 1,728
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 PITT M3 RR is on a distinguished road
Location: Pittsburgh

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10speed View Post
I think I understand what you are saying, although, I do believe I was logging IAT in Fahrenheit.
If you werent, that would explain the pulling. When I first swapped my motor in, I had an open cone intake and saw similar IAT 170F+

1. You can try to turn knock control off for a pull
2. Try setting min timing to 24 WOT for a pull
3. Try a base European flash then tune on that for a few pulls
4. Log MAF kg/hr too to see if youre at 100% efficiency.

Its been a few months since I read about relative filling vs ignition so Im foggy on that...maybe check into that. I mention RF because I saw very different values (better) after retiming and a valve adjustment. In one of those training manuals, it mentions the ITBS max at 1000KG/HR. I was peaking at 965kg/hr before I did the vanos timing and valve adjustment. After I fixed all that, I was hitting the 1000kg/hr and a tiny bit more at the top end with raised rev limit.

Definitely log AFR for all of this so you know youre not running dangerously.

Lastly, why dont you log with testo and view everything in megalogviewerHD. Its rare to have a WOT pull where all cylinders are advanced exactly the same. I often see variance across the 6. BUT I had seen steady rise to 28+ on the euro tune with some crispy cold IATs.
__________________
S54 E36 BUILD
Jump to top PITT M3 RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Jan-25-2020, 01:29:14 AM   #37
Chanman1029
Registered User
 
Chanman1029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 57
Reputation: 0 Chanman1029 is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

From my understanding, the CCV’s on these cars don’t really have issues. Last night I did a leakdown test, and all of my cylinders were between 2%-4%, it was tested at 100psi. I also took my intake off too look inside of the intake manifold. It didn’t really seem that oily though, there was a little bit of oil down at the base where the drain tube is, and the trumpets that lead to each ITB only had a minimal amout of residue on them. I’m starting to fear the source of my smoke might be the valve stem seals. Hopefully soon, I’ll take the catch can off my 325i and put it on the M3, and see if the smoke on decel persosts, aswell as if my timing keeps pulling.
Jump to top Chanman1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Jan-25-2020, 01:44:54 PM   #38
PITT M3 RR
PA
 
PITT M3 RR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Age: 34
Posts: 1,728
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 PITT M3 RR is on a distinguished road
Location: Pittsburgh

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chanman1029 View Post
From my understanding, the CCVs on these cars dont really have issues. Last night I did a leakdown test, and all of my cylinders were between 2%-4%, it was tested at 100psi. I also took my intake off too look inside of the intake manifold. It didnt really seem that oily though, there was a little bit of oil down at the base where the drain tube is, and the trumpets that lead to each ITB only had a minimal amout of residue on them. Im starting to fear the source of my smoke might be the valve stem seals. Hopefully soon, Ill take the catch can off my 325i and put it on the M3, and see if the smoke on decel persosts, aswell as if my timing keeps pulling.
Any recent vanos work? I noticed a moderate oil smell in the cabin after running a vanos test in DIS. That smell is gone after retiming, valve adjustment and some miles driven.

The CCV is very basic and unless its cracked, really has no other failure points. Take it off and look at it.
__________________
S54 E36 BUILD
Jump to top PITT M3 RR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Jan-25-2020, 08:05:02 PM   #39
Chanman1029
Registered User
 
Chanman1029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 57
Reputation: 0 Chanman1029 is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

No recent vanos work, I’m also pretty sure I did a vanos test on a scanner and everything came back good. That was about a year ago probably, but the car has also probably only seen a thousand miles of driving in the last year.
Jump to top Chanman1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Jan-26-2020, 05:43:12 AM   #40
Chanman1029
Registered User
 
Chanman1029's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 57
Reputation: 0 Chanman1029 is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: What pulls timing on the S54?

Quote:
Originally Posted by sullyz View Post
I swapped the knock sensors and logged again. Still didn’t resolve my issues. Above 5k rpm it’s dropping to 18 degrees, then comes back up to a little over 20 between 7-8k rpm.
Going to try some higher octane fuel and log again in case the crappy CA 91 octane is an issue. If I rule out the fuel then I’m not sure where to go from there.
Did you have any smoke on decal when you were doing this?
__________________
2002 M3-Zirgo electric fan-Turner Underdrive pulleys-Euro Headers-OEM section 1&2-Borla muffler-K&N intake-Epic motorsports tune
Jump to top Chanman1029 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 03:33:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright 1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing What pulls timing on the S54? in the Coding and Tuning Forum - Discuss all avenues of coding and tuning here! at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)