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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 06:16:52 AM   #101
icecream
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

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Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
I’m serious lol. It happens quite a lot actually. My friends with the shittiest cars are the biggest critics. They think they’re purists and any new hyped cars are “cookie cutter”.
Yes, I have met those types, f**king jokers.

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Originally Posted by yhp2009 View Post
Not a fan of the M2 look... but to be honest the black color seems to make up for the shortcomings somehow. Makes it look more masculine and balances out the "goofy" image
That goofy look is what will make this a classic 20 years from now. Its why I love the M coupe (which looks far better IMO), 1M and why I like the M2, call me goofy.

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It’s completely unrelated. I fail to see how this is even a discussion if you have even the smallest level of understanding when it comes to design approach and driving dynamics.
No wonder every manufacturer is going electric and manufactures stopped giving a f*** about the enthusiast and focus on the majority of buyers that can't tell a spark plug from a butt plug.
BMW comes out with a pretty freakin sweet car, tons of power, good handling, decent weight, out performs the holy grail CSL and comes with a 6 speed to boot and all they get is sh*t on by "enthusiasts", ffs.
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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 12:14:29 PM   #102
Paulo M
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

BMW is marketing to people that would buy their cars new (obviously). Most are corporate young professionals that just want the highest trim “it” car. Can’t blame bmw for that.

True Enthusiasts of previous models make up a small % of the new car buyer pool. They’re very critical of any necessary and unecessary engineering changes, from the previous model they’ve become emotionally attached to (understandably).

Even Porsche, as purist of a company, have moved forward. Makes sense for sedan based luxury sport bmw’s to do the same.
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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 02:48:45 PM   #103
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

I loved my E46 M3 but its time is long past. I like the new M2 there is a guy who runs one at my local track it seems very capable. However I think if your in the market for a new sports car and you can swing 85k the C8 is gonna steal just about every other new cars thunder. In the early 2000's American cars didn't have a chance with their live axles and horrible styling, that is no longer the case.
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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 03:11:49 PM   #104
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

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I loved my E46 M3 but its time is long past. I like the new M2 there is a guy who runs one at my local track it seems very capable. However I think if your in the market for a new sports car and you can swing 85k the C8 is gonna steal just about every other new cars thunder. In the early 2000's American cars didn't have a chance with their live axles and horrible styling, that is no longer the case.
But don’t vettes do this every generation? They’re the bang for the buck American sports car. Performance wise, C5, C6, and C7 was unrivaled for the $. They eventually become forgotten or hertz rental cars.

Unless you buy the Z or Zr1, which I believe would cost considerably more?
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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 04:26:43 PM   #105
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

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But don’t vettes do this every generation? They’re the bang for the buck American sports car. Performance wise, C5, C6, and C7 was unrivaled for the $. They eventually become forgotten or hertz rental cars.

Unless you buy the Z or Zr1, which I believe would cost considerably more?
Now with an actually nice interior, dct (in a world where most other players are cost savings back to torque converters), and more betterer engines (everyone else resorting to turbos).

For most people, there’s less reason than ever to not get a corvette with the C8.
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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 04:29:46 PM   #106
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

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Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
But don’t vettes do this every generation? They’re the bang for the buck American sports car. Performance wise, C5, C6, and C7 was unrivaled for the $. They eventually become forgotten or hertz rental cars.

Unless you buy the Z or Zr1, which I believe would cost considerably more?
New for new, most people who were buying M3s and P-cars and such weren't buying them strictly for performance and driving feel. The creature comforts and refinement were also important, and the corvette did not do well there. The C8 seems to be enough of an improvement in those areas to make it tougher to justify the competition.
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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 06:57:52 PM   #107
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

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Originally Posted by icecream View Post

That goofy look is what will make this a classic 20 years from now. Its why I love the M coupe (which looks far better IMO), 1M and why I like the M2, call me goofy.
Chances are youre right in 20 years there is a lot to like about the M2. But its sort of inevitable with a lot of cars in 20 years they have good chance of becoming classics for one reason or other.
But right now today, I dont really like the way it looks, and derives its power from turbos, and gets fed exhaust notes from the speakers, and has auto blep downshifts etc... I think its the little things like that in unison it ruins the overall vision.
I understand that is the direction of the overall auto industry and cannot be simply ignored by being stubborn. But I also think it wouldnt kill BMW to just offer a simple stripped version of their "enthusiast" cars like porsche did with the Carrera T.
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Old Sun, Dec-08-2019, 11:33:47 PM   #108
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

The M3 CSL is a terrible road car. Can you sell a car today if they had to pay extra for AC? Or even worse...BMW fans? Never.

Different car...comparison is purely marketing.

For the record, I think the M2 looks good except for the rear end. It has a fat looking arse. There is just a high level of disappointment. You see the front, looks good, get to the back and it looks like shiet. There is no reason for this.
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Old Mon, Dec-09-2019, 12:02:38 AM   #109
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
The M3 CSL is a terrible road car. Can you sell a car today if they had to pay extra for AC? Or even worse...BMW fans? Never.

Different car...comparison is purely marketing.

For the record, I think the M2 looks good except for the rear end. It has a fat looking arse. There is just a high level of disappointment. You see the front, looks good, get to the back and it looks like shiet. There is no reason for this.
AC was a no cost option
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Old Mon, Dec-09-2019, 03:08:20 AM   #110
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Default Re: BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL

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Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
But don’t vettes do this every generation? They’re the bang for the buck American sports car. Performance wise, C5, C6, and C7 was unrivaled for the $. They eventually become forgotten or hertz rental cars.

Unless you buy the Z or Zr1, which I believe would cost considerably more?
I don't think you can compare the M2 in any trim level to a zo6 or zr1 of any of the last few gens. The 85k M2CS doesn't stand a chance against any of them esp since most of the late model Z cars can be had for less $$, however it doesn't make sense versus the new C8 base model either which is how it would likely be compared. I have heard the supras are sitting unsold no matter how well the mags are talking them up, and I bet the M2's and caymans will be suffering the same fate. I sat in the new c8 at Carlise this summer, its a game changer for sure. I won't trade my ZR1 for it but I can see myself adding one to the stable once someone else turns their lease in.
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Discussing BMW's 2020 version of an E46 M3 CSL in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)