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E90 M3 (Sedan) | E92 M3 (Coupe) | E93 M3 (Convertible) (2008-2013) {Engine: S65 - Max Hp: 414 hp (420 hp Euro) at 8,300 rpm / 295 lb/ft at 3,900 rpm}


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Old Tue, Jan-01-2019, 04:00:42 PM   #21
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
How does anyone know stock bearings are fine to 60k miles? A few posts up are pictures of stock bearings with 35k miles (57k kilometers) and they look bad.
Well I did say "barring abuse". Can't imagine these bearings had a good life.

Either way, the guidance I've heard from shops that have done a lot of these suggests that, unless you're driving like an ass or going by oil analysis, 60k-ish is where you start planning rod bearing replacement, and many bearings that come out at 60k-100k miles still look fine. The few bad cases at lower mileage are outliers.
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Old Tue, Jan-01-2019, 04:31:36 PM   #22
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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....The cost for this service is around $3k plus taxes and alignment.
What alignment? Unless you specifically asked to be quoted for a wheel alignment, RB replacement doesn't have any type of "alignment"
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Old Tue, Jan-01-2019, 06:52:37 PM   #23
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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Originally Posted by HofmeisterKinky View Post
Well I did say "barring abuse". Can't imagine these bearings had a good life.

Either way, the guidance I've heard from shops that have done a lot of these suggests that, unless you're driving like an ass or going by oil analysis, 60k-ish is where you start planning rod bearing replacement, and many bearings that come out at 60k-100k miles still look fine. The few bad cases at lower mileage are outliers.
I have been following the S65 rod bearing issue for 8 years and based on everything I have read there is no mileage or usage guideline for changing them. Itís not the mileage or how you drive it how often you change the oil that wears the bearings. About 90% that come out look prematurely worn regardless of mileage. There are no outliers and there is nothing to make you feel like you are fine, except changing them. That said, probably 90% of E9xM3 are still on their original bearings and seem to be driving fine. Itís worrying though that 90% of the bearings that come out look bad.
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Old Wed, Jan-02-2019, 01:54:31 AM   #24
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

Hi All,

I am new to this so please forgive me for questions that may be basic or obvious to you guys. I am assuming that waiting till the engine is warm before letting it really go is the smart thing to do with this car and any car in general because the oil needs to be warmed up. Is there a certain oil that is preferred by you guys that one should consider? I live in Pittsburgh so it does get cold here, but I would only be driving it in the spring/summer so it would be warmer.

Thanks!
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Old Wed, Jan-02-2019, 02:46:02 AM   #25
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
I have been following the S65 rod bearing issue for 8 years and based on everything I have read there is no mileage or usage guideline for changing them. Itís not the mileage or how you drive it how often you change the oil that wears the bearings. About 90% that come out look prematurely worn regardless of mileage. There are no outliers and there is nothing to make you feel like you are fine, except changing them. That said, probably 90% of E9xM3 are still on their original bearings and seem to be driving fine. Itís worrying though that 90% of the bearings that come out look bad.
Fair enough.

Don't you think that means there's a difference between bearings that look bad and bearings that are about to fail?
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Old Wed, Jan-02-2019, 02:50:44 AM   #26
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Default Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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Originally Posted by HofmeisterKinky View Post
Fair enough.



Don't you think that means there's a difference between bearings that look bad and bearings that are about to fail?


There are many kind of s65 owners. 2 main ones are;

Owner type A: No i babied my car very well so need not get too paranoid on CRB. I be fine

Owner type B: i will change my crb so i can sleep better


I belong to B and the crb on my 57k km proved that it really wear irregardless of mileage






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Old Wed, Jan-02-2019, 03:34:26 AM   #27
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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Originally Posted by pkalhan View Post
Hi All,

I am new to this so please forgive me for questions that may be basic or obvious to you guys. I am assuming that waiting till the engine is warm before letting it really go is the smart thing to do with this car and any car in general because the oil needs to be warmed up. Is there a certain oil that is preferred by you guys that one should consider? I live in Pittsburgh so it does get cold here, but I would only be driving it in the spring/summer so it would be warmer.

Thanks!
On most engines most of the time, just wait until the idle settles and then drive off -- but GENTLY until your oil is up to temp. I like to stay below half throttle and half the indicated redline until the oil temp needle is past the first dot on the gauge, and then I don't go WOT or redline it until it's warm enough for the OBC to read the oil level.

Engine oil: The problem here is that there's no general spec for this car, like LL-01 for other BMWs, that many oils meet. All BMW says is that Twin Power Turbo 10W-60 is the only recommended oil. On the plus side, that oil was specced by BMW M for this family of engines, which is a benefit that not a lot of cars have. Basically no one has the wherewithal to figure out whether one oil actually works better than another (hint: cheap oil analysis doesn't even begin to cut it), so even if there were a better option out there, it'd be nearly impossible to find it. A lot of people like to run other 10W-60 oils, e.g. from Castrol, Liqui-Moly, and Shell. Those are all fine oils, though none of them has official endorsement. Castrol TWS 10W-60 was the original spec oil for this engine, but it's not any more and no one knows if it has been reformulated since then. A lot of people also like to run thinner oils (xW-40 and xW-50), but that's mainly for winter use so it seems you don't even need to get into that. So yeah, stick with BMW Twin Power Turbo 10W-60. And buy it from FCPEuro.com so you can do lifetime exchanges and get mostly-free oil.
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Old Wed, Jan-02-2019, 11:33:26 AM   #28
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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Originally Posted by HofmeisterKinky View Post
Fair enough.

Don't you think that means there's a difference between bearings that look bad and bearings that are about to fail?
Yes. But few want to spend 4 hours taking them out, looking at them and guessing how many miles until they fail, spending 4 hours putting them back in, waiting until just before the guessed failure point, and then spending 8 hours removing them and installing new bearings.

I wish there was something comforting people could rely on. The only way I would be comfortable is if I had an 08-10 car with lead bearings and had oil analysis from every oil change since new. Other than that the only comfort is the risk analysis - most cars still seem to be driving fine on original bearings. I had expected failures to increase but that does not seem to be the case, at least not yet.

Last edited by pbonsalb; Wed, Jan-02-2019 at 04:39:54 PM.
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Old Wed, Jan-02-2019, 12:14:53 PM   #29
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

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Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
Yes. But few want to spend 4 hours taking them out, looking at them and guessing how many miles until they fail, spending 4 hours putting them back in, waiting until just before the guessed failure point, and then spending 8 hours removing them and installing new bearings.

I wish there was something comforting people could rely on. The only way I would be comfortable Iíd if I had an 08-10 car with lead bearings and had oil analysis from every oil change since new. Other than that the only comfort is the risk analysis - most cars still seem to be driving fine on original bearings. I had expected failures to increase but that does not seem to be the case, at least not yet.
Word.

Following on:

1. Accepting that we've seen a lot of bad looking bearings before the 60k mile mark, how many failures have we seen before that mark? AFAICT, it's rare enough that it doesn't make sense to bet on.

2. Contrary to widespread assumptions, oil analysis is meant to be used regularly, at every OCI if not more frequently. You're supposed to establish a baseline and then watch for deviations. If you don't do that, it's unreliable at best, no matter what your bearings are made of. But if you do do that, it's reasonably reliable -- again, no matter what your bearings are made of.
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Old Wed, Jan-02-2019, 04:51:26 PM   #30
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Default Re: Rod bearing - preventive maintenance?

There is a report of bearing failure at 6k miles. Someone in this thread just posted his bearings with 57k km or 35k miles and some of them look terrible. I have seen nothing yet that gives me any confidence that waiting to 60k miles is reasonable. I changed mine at 60k but only because it was a coincidence that the extended warranty expired at that mileage. The most postings are at M3Post. A member there from Belgium has a worldwide failures list but obviously it just tracks failures reported by people interested in reporting them. Probably 75% of E9xM3 owners don’t even know there have been issues so it’s hard to track problems experienced by the majority of owners.

There is a court case going on and I was hoping that BMW might be forced to provide the number it has seen in discovery in that litigation. I don’t think that has happened yet. All cars are now past their factory 4 year warranty so more and more are being serviced by independents so whatever BMW might have wound not be complete.
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Discussing Rod bearing - preventive maintenance? in the E90 M3 (Sedan) | E92 M3 (Coupe) | E93 M3 (Convertible) (2008-2013) Forum - {Engine: S65 - Max Hp: 414 hp (420 hp Euro) at 8,300 rpm / 295 lb/ft at 3,900 rpm} at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)