BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 03:18:09 PM   #461
EricSMG
40 something
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,861
Reputation: 0 EricSMG is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Do you have the steel brakes or the carbon brakes?

Never driven a car with carbon brakes that I was overly pleased with the feel of.
Steel. This car is a total stripper - only options are ZCP and Apple Car Play.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
I know you are on the conservative side, but do you have plans to mod the f80? Of leaving it stock?
Not sure - I read about engine tunes but then I think to myself, "why tune this thing? It's super fast and you'll void the warranty." The only tune I would consider is the CS factory tune, though.

Ultimately probably no mods. I'm extremely busy with work these days, baby on the way, really don't have the time/energy/desired to jack around with mods right now. Just wanted a complete solution out of the box that was fully covered.
__________________


'04 SG/Black 6MT || '04 JB/IR SMG
Jump to top EricSMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 03:27:27 PM   #462
HassanEido
Registered User
 
HassanEido's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 3,279
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 HassanEido is on a distinguished road

Lebanon




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Wish you were local Eric, I'd give u a test drive
__________________

Mods:
-Custom CF airbox
-SSV2 catless headers, Custom 2.5" dual sec1, Custom sec2 2.5" dual with e9xM X pipe, SuperSprint Race inspired custom section 3..
-Cat Cams 280 272.
-Custom dyno tune
-Tms pulleys and electric fan conversion
364.1 whp 287.8 wtq

Custom exhaust thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=569086
Cams thread and dyno http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=554439
Custom cf airbox thread http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=595180
Why not to use after market bearings with surfacetreatments and /or increased clearance
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showp...4&postcount=10
Jump to top HassanEido is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 03:50:22 PM   #463
nasieg
Registered User
 
nasieg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,800
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 nasieg is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post

- The ZCP damper tuning is quite good BUT the overall system would be too soft for serious track use. Sport (middle setting) is good for super aggressive street driving while Sport+ gets a little hard-edged (feels like too much high speed damping) and the springs could be firmer for high speed/bumpy tracks. That said, the chassis is ULTRA planted at high speed. Steering gets a little floaty up there but overall very good.

This confirms that if I were to get an used F80 M3 and wanted it for occasional track duties, then going with a stock suspension, and putting a coil over on it, would be the better route to go.



Now that this car is on my radar again, I am quite surprised at the used prices. I mean you can get clean ones, with low miles for $50k ish. And almost new condition for a little more. Although the GT4 (which is what I had my sights on) isn't the same type of car at all, it still comes down to value at some point and this is a great value in that regard.


Someone else pointed out to me that the M4 GTS's have come way down in price also. I checked, and it is true. Many of them selling in the 90k range. That is crazy since they started at $135k just two years ago. Now all over sudden that car comes in to play.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
Do you have the steel brakes or the carbon brakes?

Never driven a car with carbon brakes that I was overly pleased with the feel of.

I have only driven a Porsche with CC brakes, but loved it. I know the consumable disadvantage is huge, but I recently spoke to a couple of guys that track their GT3 RS's with the CC brakes, and the cost isn't as bad as I though (relatively speaking). According to one of those guys, who is very analytical and tracks a lot of data, he can go through 4 sets of brake pads per set of Carbon rotors. Or about 5k track miles. That would take me a long time, probably 3 years. Now granted that it still a steep price to pay over 3 years, but man would I love to have brakes that worked for both street and track, not squeal while street driving or pad swapping, and the added benefit of the lighter un-sprung weight. It almost sounds like ~$10k every 3 years is worth it
__________________



My Journal

Besian VANOS, Euro Headers & Section1, TTFS tune, TMS under-dive pulleys, TC Kline S/A Coil Overs, Brembo 996 Calipers, ECS 2 Piece Rotors, Sportline CS8's, SG CSL Diffuser, OEM CSL Trunk
Jump to top nasieg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 04:05:41 PM   #464
EricSMG
40 something
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 10,861
Reputation: 0 EricSMG is on a distinguished road
Location: San Diego

United States




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by HassanEido View Post
Wish you were local Eric, I'd give u a test drive
Haha, yes! I would love to feel a fully built NA 46M.... bet that thing is a beast. Mega top end pull, I bet. Probably as fast as the F80, but with a much bigger top end and much less mid-range.

The S55 is mid-range for days. Not a lot of low end power though.... contrary to what you might think.

The marketing of "full torque from 2350 to 5000" or whatever is HIGHLY misleading. As I noted earlier, the motor is mega laggy below ~3k. If you floor it at 2500rpm you get no real boost for a good 2 full seconds or so. And then by then you're at 3k when the monster awakens. At least in the later cars - the early cars had a HUGE torque spike very low in the rpm window which gave the F80 a reputation for being hard to control.

In other words, compared to a late model, your car probably 'feels' stronger below 3k and certainly feels stronger above 7k. But within that range the S55 is potent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nasieg View Post
Now that this car is on my radar again, I am quite surprised at the used prices. I mean you can get clean ones, with low miles for $50k ish. And almost new condition for a little more.

Someone else pointed out to me that the M4 GTS's have come way down in price also. I checked, and it is true. Many of them selling in the 90k range. That is crazy since they started at $135k just two years ago. Now all over sudden that car comes in to play.
Yeah dude. 50k will get you a like-new low mile '15. From there you can do coilovers and CS/diff/DSC tune and you'll be living in value-city. The only differences between the early/late cars are fine tuning of the systems which can be easily applied via the aftermarket. That said, I think the '16s got most of the updates from the factory.

The GTS' have TANKED in value because poor value. The CS is the new badboy on the block but even those are going for deep discounts new, apparently, since again, not the best value.

Brand new, the ZCP is the sweet spot but you can't buy a new F80ZCP any longer save for what's sitting on dealer lots. But for you, used-then-mod is the way to go.
__________________


'04 SG/Black 6MT || '04 JB/IR SMG

Last edited by EricSMG; Sun, Sep-23-2018 at 04:11:08 PM.
Jump to top EricSMG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 04:17:57 PM   #465
Paulo M
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,916
Reputation: 0 Paulo M is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

There’s reviews of people that hated the f80 but loved the zcp. Is it that big of a difference? And with mods, standard f80 can be as “fun” as zcp? May look into an f80 myself in a few yrs as a nice daily.
__________________
BREMBO BBS DIXIS
Jump to top Paulo M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 05:02:05 PM   #466
Keiser
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 479
Reputation: 0 Keiser is on a distinguished road
Location: SF Bay Area

United States




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
There’s reviews of people that hated the f80 but loved the zcp. Is it that big of a difference? And with mods, standard f80 can be as “fun” as zcp? May look into an f80 myself in a few yrs as a nice daily.
Yes, the ZCP is a different animal on this car.
__________________
My Cars:

2003.5 E46 Steel Gray/Black SMG Coupe SOLD
2003.5 E46 Jet Black/Imola SMG Coupe SOLD
2008 E90 Interlagos/Beige 6MT Sedan SOLD
2005 E46 Mystic/Black 6MT Coupe SOLD
2015 F80 Sakhir/Black 6MT Sedan SOLD
2002 E46 Tiag/Black SMG Coupe Converted to Estoril/Cinnamon
2018 F80 Tanzanite/Cloth 6MT ZCP Sedan
Jump to top Keiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Sep-23-2018, 08:29:01 PM   #467
nasieg
Registered User
 
nasieg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 1,800
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 nasieg is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post


Yeah dude. 50k will get you a like-new low mile '15. From there you can do coilovers and CS/diff/DSC tune and you'll be living in value-city. The only differences between the early/late cars are fine tuning of the systems which can be easily applied via the aftermarket. That said, I think the '16s got most of the updates from the factory.

The GTS' have TANKED in value because poor value. The CS is the new badboy on the block but even those are going for deep discounts new, apparently, since again, not the best value.

Brand new, the ZCP is the sweet spot but you can't buy a new F80ZCP any longer save for what's sitting on dealer lots. But for you, used-then-mod is the way to go.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keiser View Post
Yes, the ZCP is a different animal on this car.

A low mile '16 for high 50's would be the best start for me, but if the right ZCP comes up, I wouldn't hesitate. In fact it might be wiser. Two schools of thoughts here. On one hand why bother with ZCP if you are going to mod? However, when selling down the road, the ZCP will be more desirable and returning to stock should recoup the upfront cost. So while I wouldn't necessarily want/need the ZCP package, it makes it a more desirable car down the road.
__________________



My Journal

Besian VANOS, Euro Headers & Section1, TTFS tune, TMS under-dive pulleys, TC Kline S/A Coil Overs, Brembo 996 Calipers, ECS 2 Piece Rotors, Sportline CS8's, SG CSL Diffuser, OEM CSL Trunk
Jump to top nasieg is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Thu, Oct-04-2018, 01:18:21 PM   #468
Dave B
M3 collector
 
Dave B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 4,149
Reputation: 0 Dave B is on a distinguished road
Location: Miami

Italy




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post
I'm having a hard time with this if I'm honest.
Wow. Sad face. Never thought I'd hear you say this.

I imagine it's unlikely, given a baby coming, but it really does sound like you of all people need to do a CSL weight high HP NA build in the E46 now to get that comparison. Just order a bunch of parts and drop it off at Kaiv's. I'm sure he'd have the entire car done for you in the time it took to go get lunch

This all makes me really curious all over again about driving an F8x or even the new M2 competition. Because I do love the look of these new Ms. I have just always hated turbos.

(That said... I got a nice side by side shot of my blue ZCP yesterday next to a white M2 and the 18 year old design still totally holds its own against the new kid. It really does.)
Jump to top Dave B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Oct-06-2018, 03:29:34 AM   #469
black bnr32
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 163
Reputation: 0 black bnr32 is on a distinguished road

Canada




Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3

Quote:
Originally Posted by EricSMG View Post



We almost got sucked into the F80M scene. Test drove a couple 6MTs, one a ZCP car with the black 666 20" wheels. Absolutely drop dead gorgeous car.

However - did nothing for us from the driver's seat. Laggy, disconnected, spongy HUGE midrange = not at all what you want from an M car. Steering was fine, not great. Car is badass and fast but leaves you wanting more, especially when you look at the price tag. Funny thing is, jumping out of an F80 M3 and into a healthy 46M makes you realize how good the 46 really is - you literally don't feel like you've stepped down at all. It feels better, it's got WAY more response from the motor and is just so rewarding. That was the shocker - going from the F80M directly to the 46M - you're instantly aware that walking away from the $75k F80 was the right move and that buying it would've been a mistake. Not to mention the massive depreciation hits.
Just curious, why the change in tune from your first impression back in January?

Last edited by black bnr32; Sat, Oct-06-2018 at 05:21:55 AM.
Jump to top black bnr32 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sat, Oct-06-2018, 01:20:03 PM   #470
pbonsalb
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 3,631
Reputation: 0 pbonsalb is on a distinguished road





Default Re: Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3. Sold the E90 M3, picked up an F80 M3.

I asked the same some posts back and Eric explained. Interestingly, there are are E9x M3 owners who bought F80 M3 and sold them to buy another E9x M3 in the E9x M3 section of M3Post dot com.

There are lots of opinions and you are reading just one here. Generally, though, I agree that the newer version is usually faster and handles better, two things I like. I also like torque and turbos deliver more of that than high revving N/A motors of similar displacement. Much more accessible power in daily driving but a little less controllable on the track. Ever improving traction control favors the newer car and the newer car has more tech and comfort features that most buyers who daily drive will want.

There will always be the hardcore people who want a manual transmission, manual steering, roll up windows, no abs or traction control, etc so it is really them driving the car rather than them participating in driving the car. As I have aged and learned how much faster modern tech is — autos today are faster than manuals in a straight line and around a track — I no longer feel like driving must be a lot of work or it’s not really driving. I still have 10-20 year old cars but will be transitioning to auto/DCT/pdk autos and AWD and newer higher tech cars over the next few years as the budget allows.
Jump to top pbonsalb is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 02:05:30 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright ©1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing Sold the Jet Black, picked up an E90 M3. Sold the E90 M3, picked up an F80 M3. in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)