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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 01:03:16 AM   #11
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Do you have any "before" pics ? The journals show wear marks even after the REM process !?!?
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 07:47:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Looks amazing! Can't wait to see your progress and how your engine is able to handle the increased redline.
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 11:18:05 AM   #13
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by Abad46 View Post
Very nice! Excited to see this progress
Thanks Abad46 Ready to get it done!!



Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerdriver View Post
Micropolishing has been proven to reduce windage losses. Presumably you're planning other changes if you intend to run your engine up to 9k RPM, such as rods and valve springs.
Yes, doing a complete build but I don't think I'd run up to 9k on a consistent basis. Redine will be set more in-line with where the 280/272 cams peak, but there are a few guys here I'd like to consult with first. 9k is more like "let's see if it'll do it" type of thing.



Quote:
Originally Posted by stash1 View Post
Just out of curiosity, how much $$$ did they charge to do that?
stash, I paid $450 for everything, which included a discount. Normally they charge $500 for 6 & 8 crankshafts.



Quote:
Originally Posted by admranger View Post
Can one assume that if you list one fewer significant figure the number is a zero?

Crank and journals look lovely!

Also, in for pics of transparent aluminum oil pan.
Thanks.. Yeah, those extra digits in the measurements were probably a little unnecessary. I was talking with A. Lang and needed to send him the measurements so I went a little nuts taking them down.



Quote:
Originally Posted by digger View Post
I would have though you would first bullnose the leading and knife edge the trailing edge of the counterweights if you were concerned about windage and going to get this done. Itís a bit like a brick is never going to have low drag no matter how smooth it is because the geometry is not efficient. skin friction is important but its only one aspect of the resistance

If you are concerned about friction the regular lip seals can be replaced by much better PTFE types if you are spendy enough.
I'd be curious to see this done on an S54 crank. Wouldn't something like that make the crank more difficult to balance, with so much material being removed?
As mentioned earlier, I wanted to take advantage of the anti-wear and oil control improvements in the journal areas. The DFL coated bearings will complete the "package" so to speak.



Quote:
Originally Posted by paffy View Post
Do you have any "before" pics ? The journals show wear marks even after the REM process !?!?
Actually I do, now that you mention it. I took them while unpacking the crank when it arrived, but I don't think they were very detailed. I look for them.
I think what you're seeing is some streaks of residual oil after I wiped the journals down for the pics. I didn't want to solvent wipe them just yet, as the surface will oxidize pretty quickly if left unprotected.



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Originally Posted by TheGenius46M View Post
Looks amazing! Can't wait to see your progress and how your engine is able to handle the increased redline.
Thanks man. Yeah that 9k redline will most likely be a one-time deal for me. Probably keep a it at a more conservative 8500.
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 05:02:36 PM   #14
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by SliM3 View Post
Yes, doing a complete build but I don't think I'd run up to 9k on a consistent basis. Redine will be set more in-line with where the 280/272 cams peak, but there are a few guys here I'd like to consult with first. 9k is more like "let's see if it'll do it" type of thing.
There is a discussion about balancing raging in another thread. If anything, on top of rods and valvesprings, balancing is probably the most important thing for you to consider if you're planning to run your engine to 9k. Please keep posting updates about your build.
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 05:19:23 PM   #15
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

I have got some Nutty bars and going to watch this build! Good work!
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 05:39:56 PM   #16
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Lovely. Interested in seeing more.
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 05:45:02 PM   #17
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Almost a year ago, I started looking into the specs on the S54 to say "okay, if X wasn't a weak point, what could you get out of the S54?"

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=497248

The first thing you need to look at when you start talking about screaming to 9,000 RPM is what kind of force does that put on the piston? The stroke length and RPM have an immediate affect.

You can spitball an ideal rev limit by using:
RPM = (desiredPistonSpeed * 6)/ stroke

To get an idea of the amount of force you're putting on the internals, you can calculate the amount of acceleration you'll be calling for your piston to do with:
(RPM^2 * stroke / 2189) * 1.333

^And note that's RPM SQUARED! In other words, the forces going from 8000 to 9000 RPM are massively greater than the forces between 7000 and 8000

The normally accepted limit is 150 k ft/s^2 - depending on the material used. The higher you go, you can see the acceleration is enough to literally rip the pin out of the bottom of the piston.

As I noted in that thread a year ago, even if you beef up the rod, piston and crank, even if you beef up the valvesprings to prevent valve float... F1 engines don't like to go far beyond 5,000 feet/ minute mean piston speed for a reason. It turns out that once you exceed 5,500 fpm, it's actually nearly impossible to keep a film of oil lubricating the cylinder wall.

Last edited by Drewster; Mon, Nov-02-2015 at 05:51:12 PM.
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 06:34:02 PM   #18
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Here is the piston/rod combo. The skirts & ring lands are coated with tungsten/moly DFL, and the rings & cylinder bores will be treated with tungsten disulfide just prior to assembly. I also opted for upgraded tool steel wrist pins, and the rods are actually slightly longer than stock so rod:stroke ratio changes by a small amount (1.52 to 1.54).



I'm also swapping-out the ARP 2000 rod bolts for a set of SPS-CARR Multiphase bolts, same kind used in the Sprint Cup motors turning 9800+ continuous rpm.



I'd say the rotating assembly will be bulletproof and oil control to the piston skirts vastly improved since the DFL has fluid retention properties. Needless to say, 9000 is nothing I'm looking to continuously run, just wanna see if the engine can pull it off. I'll probably "chicken s**t" out though!!

In all seriousness, redline will be set based on what the cams tell me.
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 06:44:10 PM   #19
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Just running the numbers, you'll cross that "accepted limit" at ~8273 RPM.

By 8500 RPM, you're at ~158,428 ft/s^2. If you give it a jab to rev up to 9,000 RPM, you're at 177,615 ft/s^2, so about 18% over the accepted limits, and almost 27% over the forces at stock redline.

Looking at it another way, with stock 470g pistons, 9,000 RPM puts 25.4 kN of force between the wrist pin and the crank.. by my napkin math that's enough to stretch most rod bolts a decent amount, if not break them. If you hold it there for just one second, you just slammed each piston with that force 150 times.

Bear in mind this is spitballing pure *force*, not even friction, heat, etc.

[EDIT]
In all seriousness, redline should primarily be based on what the piston is rated for, and stroke is what says how much force will be placed on the piston during a revolution by the crank, not the ratio.. and that's neglecting if you'll have higher cylinder pressures with longer rods. I'd be curious what the engine can do as well, but I would be seriously concerned about a quick experiment ending up a very expensive and explosive mistake. Not to mention that even *if* the engine can take that RPM, there's no guarantee that the clutch disk and other driveline components can. I watched a video of a Corvette running NASA TT money shift, overrev, and the clutch actually decimated his oil and fuel lines.. which burned the car to a crisp. Your car, of course... but be very careful

Last edited by Drewster; Mon, Nov-02-2015 at 06:59:56 PM.
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Old Mon, Nov-02-2015, 06:49:59 PM   #20
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Default Re: REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft

Quote:
Originally Posted by SliM3 View Post
Here is the piston/rod combo. The skirts & ring lands are coated with tungsten/moly DFL, and the rings & cylinder bores will be treated with tungsten disulfide just prior to assembly. I also opted for upgraded tool steel wrist pins, and the rods are actually slightly longer than stock so rod:stroke ratio changes by a small amount (1.52 to 1.54).



I'm also swapping-out the ARP 2000 rod bolts for a set of SPS-CARR Multiphase bolts, same kind used in the Sprint Cup motors turning 9800+ continuous rpm.



I'd say the rotating assembly will be bulletproof and oil control to the piston skirts vastly improved since the DFL has fluid retention properties. Needless to say, 9000 is nothing I'm looking to continuously run, just wanna see if the engine can pull it off. I'll probably "chicken s**t" out though!!

In all seriousness, redline will be set based on what the cams tell me.
A longer rod increases the peak force, although your rods aren't that much longer than stock. How does the mass of your piston / rod / bearings compare with stock? Did you consider the Lang Racing approach of going with a wider rod bearing?
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Discussing REM (ISF) Microfinished S54 Crankshaft in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)