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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, Jul-25-2018, 10:43:34 PM   #11
Maxima SE
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Not fully assessed yet. At least one crack is visible with the subframe in place, so I'm expecting the damage to be pretty bad, possibly enough to necessitate replacement.
It is very hard to fully inspect the RACP unless all the dirt and grime is sanded off down to the bare metal to find all the cracks etc but if you have separation anywhere with floor dropping then I would consider replacing the whole thing. I would start by looking inside the trunk around the wheel well area to see if you have signs of seperation. The idea is hard to digest but sometimes a new RACP is the only way to go and really not that much more money or labor compared to fixing extensive damage. Last thing you would want is to throw thousands at an already fatigued sheet metal and cover it up with a bunch of bandages with uncertainties about its durabilty.
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Old Wed, Jul-25-2018, 10:48:57 PM   #12
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

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Originally Posted by Dr M3an M3 View Post
If you don't already have reinforcement plates, Redish plates have been the 'Gold-Standard' here.

To reach Vince, checkout his FB page, where he is more active (if you haven't already):
https://www.facebook.com/PPRnDnews
vincent@practicalperformance.se

Another option (No personal experience outside of reading his posts on here) is CMP Design (Australian) -- Very similar to the VinceBar. Same idea. By the looks, this option likely weighs a bit more and is not totally hidden like the VinceBar...but something to consider, especially if you can't get ahold of Vince.
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=565038

Honestly, it wouldn't be hard to get a local metal fab shop to fabricate up a "VinceBar". Would be much cheaper done locally (especially since you avoid international shipping).


Really surprised your RACP wasn't already reinforced!
Agree with all of this. Ive felt the CMP one and it is quite heavy. Im not sure the weight difference between the 2 though.

But keep us posted if you get a hold of vince, I was planning to use his also.
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Last edited by Sandeep1212; Thu, Jul-26-2018 at 01:23:01 AM.
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Old Wed, Jul-25-2018, 11:49:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Hmm, I'm not a fan of CMP's design being visible after everything is done. Sent Vince an email, but based on his comments on facebook, I'm not too hopeful about being able to get a full kit in a reasonable timeframe.

Maybe brand new RACP + Redish plates + foam might be the way to go
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Old Thu, Jul-26-2018, 12:09:16 AM   #14
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Hmm, I'm not a fan of CMP's design being visible after everything is done. Sent Vince an email, but based on his comments on facebook, I'm not too hopeful about being able to get a full kit in a reasonable timeframe.

Maybe brand new RACP + Redish plates + foam might be the way to go
See if he has any of the gussets in stock. I had Vince send me everything for the weld kit, aside from the long square metal bar -- WAY cheaper to source locally and have welded in than to have him ship that huge piece from Scandinavia. Honestly, if you look at the design, it should be easy for a local metal fab shop to recreate it....especially if they are going to be doing all the labor installing it. I'd think any shop that does cages would find this to be simple to recreate for you.
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Old Thu, Jul-26-2018, 12:19:37 AM   #15
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Hmm, I'm not a fan of CMP's design being visible after everything is done. Sent Vince an email, but based on his comments on facebook, I'm not too hopeful about being able to get a full kit in a reasonable timeframe.

Maybe brand new RACP + Redish plates + foam might be the way to go
I went with brand new RACP with reddish plates mounted onto it, mason X brace bolted in through the RACP and welded onto shock towers from the above. for the front I did the vince front gussets. then my RACP was extra welded all the way around, and especially around the RTAB area. I think it does the job and you walk away knowing that you've got a reinforced stress free RACP in there. Parts would be about $2000 and another $3000 or so in labor. the vince bar requires too many additional hours of labor over the mason x brace which is probably just as effective but way easier to install.
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Old Thu, Jul-26-2018, 12:33:04 AM   #16
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

If you trunk isn't sinked in, it should cost less than 3k. My trunk sinked in on the left side. It cost me 3k. I had Piper Motorsports do it, and 2 and half hours away from Philly.
However he fabricated all the plates for me. Send me a PM, and I will send you the work he did for me. Mine was badly cracked.
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Old Thu, Jul-26-2018, 01:18:49 AM   #17
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

I actually just tried emailing Vince two nights ago myself about getting a VinceBar and the supporting accessories. I still have not heard from him, and while I'd prefer not to pester him while's he's trying to handle more pressing and personal issues in his life... I'd also like to be able to drive my car without worrying about my subframe failing further. The suggestion made in this thread to try and get in touch with him via Facebook sounds like it could be a good one. Again, I would hate to bug him, but I may attempt the FB route if I don't see an email from him in the next few days.

Also, speaking of M3 community members who I really like but occasionally seem to have trouble getting in touch with, I got what I feel was a pretty reasonable installation quote from Kaiv for installing a rivet/epoxy VinceBar + VinceSkinz kit. And, not only that, but when I last spoke to him he sounded open to reducing the install cost if it turns out Vince's newest version of the VinceBar, which is supposed to be easier to install, does indeed take less time to put in. I don't remember the exact numbers floated around, but I do know the estimate for everything (components + labor) was well under your 5K cap.

Alongside the reasonable total costs I've been quoted, I like Vince's solution in theory as well, and for the moment I still personally feel like his solution is best for me. However, if I can't in touch with Vince soon, then I'll probably be in the same boat as you terraphant, and will need to start seriously looking at alternatives... For now though, I'm going to hold out a little longer. According to Vince's FB page, he just shipped out the first batch of his updated VinceBar about 11 days ago, so I feel he's still making progress.
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Old Thu, Jul-26-2018, 01:32:00 AM   #18
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

I just got my vincebar today actually. I ordered it a couple of weeks ago. Iím looking forward to his skinz when those are available.

Side question:
Is it fine to tune solid subframe mounts without plates? I plan to foam the cavity as well.
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Old Thu, Jul-26-2018, 06:33:47 AM   #19
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

I recently had the PSDesigns (Redish) RACP reinforcement plates installed. I can't speak to the effectiveness of this kit for severe or obvious preexisting RACP damage. However, I did install this kit mostly as preventative measure (after a tech claimed that he found a hairline crack) and a precursor to a more comprehensive underbody restoration. I chose this kit over the more common (Active, Turner) kits because its plates cover a larger area while also being a thicker gauge metal. I also understand the concerns about cost as it quickly become a slippery slope. As so much has to be removed to install, I took the opportunity to replace/upgrade the subframe bushings (Powerflex), reseal diff, diff bushings,new sways,shifter rebuild, CSB,guibo front control arms etc etc.

At any rate, I'm happy with the solidity of this kit especially when paired with the Powerflex E46 M3 Handling Pack. Incidentally, I also had a front subframe reinforced with Garagistic front plates (along with new motor mounts). To me, for the street and maybe driving school/ light track duty I believe this kit is a fine option.
The Vincebar looks impressive and I considered it along with the Mason engineering solutions but ultimately went with the PSDesigns/Redish kit for my needs.
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Old Thu, Jul-26-2018, 06:49:52 AM   #20
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Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

I would never do foam in case welding is required later.
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Discussing Best subframe repair options as of July 2018? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)