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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 03:40:39 AM   #31
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

vids...
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 03:57:45 AM   #32
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

Did you forget something?
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 05:03:09 AM   #33
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 06:51:44 AM   #34
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Originally Posted by stash1 View Post
FWIW, I've seen some other stroker kits come to market recently in the $4k range (supposedly using high quality forgings), but I can't frickin' remember where...think I saw where Jaws Motorsports was offering one and I made a reference to another one over on E46fanatics. (If I get real motivated, I'll go look it up.)
http://www.rebelloracing.com/bmw1.htm

These guys?
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 12:39:48 PM   #35
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

Interesting
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 01:47:39 PM   #36
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Rebello's stroker modifies your stock crankshaft the same as how I described in the previous post. It's definitely a reasonable price if you're an individual who's not necessarily interested in doing all the leg work and/or managing the project to that extent.

You can always pay a machinists to come up with the numbers for you but I'm sure it will reflect in your total investment. However, armed with the right information you're better equipped to consult as opposed to being directed.

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What is the maximum bore possible ? Are liners possible? I wouldn't be afraid of pushing the oil control ring into the pin area.

Are there any aftermarket cranks available for the s54? I would imagine the crank is fairly lightweight to begin with.
5ABIVT,
Per the TIS, maximum allowable bore for the stock block is 87.5mm (3.44").

There are vendors who perform sleeving services, but honestly that's kind of beyond the scope of a budget stroker so I haven't really put much consideration into the possibility of using them.

I can definitely see the benefits of opening up the bores beyond 87.5mm. The obvious being more displacement = HP/TQ, but you can also bring the bore:stroke ratios back to within stock parameters (think: undersquared, oversquared & squared if you want some research topics). The closer you can stay within the engineered parameters under which the motor was designed and tested, the less probability you stand of severely effecting it's reliability, IMHO

To play devils advocate for a sec, and looking beyond the price of just sleeving the block, there may be added costs associated with the head work needed to support larger bores. Particularly, focusing attention on the combustion chambers for one. You start having to address things like squish clearances and stuff like that!! Far beyond anything I'd be interested in trying to manage.
Now that doesn't go without repeating what someone once told me, in that considering the overall cost of an engine build you should try to devote no less than 40% of your budget to head work. Ideal but not always an option in most cases.

One word of caution I failed to mention previously, is to remain cognizant of the fact that you still need tuning. Seeing as how this is geared more toward a budget build I'd assume the DME would remain in control. Another reason why staying as close to the stock engine parameters as possible is pretty important.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 02:41:03 PM   #37
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

Good post, you hit the big points
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 04:19:22 PM   #38
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Yup, that's the one that I linked over on E46fanat!cs, there's still another kit out there somehwere though that I ran across recently (F-me for not saving it!)

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Unfortunately, the engine lived in a race car. This was a budget rebuild to get the car back on the track, due to the fact that the engine (previously) was put together in what looked like a sand box, and the rods were not torqued correctly, damaging his first engine. Despite our efforts to have the valves/springs/retainers replaced for race insurance, the owner didn't have the money to do that- and it dropped a valve a few races down the road.

We offered to rebuild the engine (again) for HALF the labor to help him out (obviously no lower end work would cause a random valve to drop- it was just a freak accident...) but he said he was out of money for the season.

The dropped valve damaged the block, one piston and the head.
The block was trashed, one piston from JE would fix that bottom up, and the head could have even been salvaged..... But that's where we stood with that one.
Well damn, that went south quick! Yeah, you definitely can't really cheap out on these motors. I was looking forward to maybe a pic or two, and maybe even a vid.
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Old Sun, Jan-26-2014, 05:07:39 AM   #39
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

Funny, I just found this while doing some research. We ended up doing something very similar to save a few crankshafts from the trash when they had spun bearing journals. No offset grinding though just trying to save the crank and use a wider rod bearing. I always wondered how far you really could take the stock crank if you offset ground it. It looks like if you're willing to experiment then it can be done.

Not quite as much stroke as a billet crankshaft like the one we made but definitely would cost a lot less. My math adds up to around 3500$ for rods, crankshaft grinding, bearings, and custom pistons. I wonder how people are getting up to 4000$ on something like this?
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Old Sun, Jan-26-2014, 03:52:52 PM   #40
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Not quite as much stroke as a billet crankshaft like the one we made but definitely would cost a lot less. My math adds up to around 3500$ for rods, crankshaft grinding, bearings, and custom pistons. I wonder how people are getting up to 4000$ on something like this?
The kit from Robello Racing was $3,849 Andrew, so it's in the ballpark of your $3,500 estimate. I think pricing in this range is fairly 'reasonable' considering the limited demand of this market, and considering that most folks probably aren't interested in doing the necessary leg work/research to come up w/a kit on their own.

Also, it's nice to know that folks also now have another alternative (in you), to source a built motor from...good stuff Andrew!

Reviving this thread, still makes me wonder where I saw that 'billet stroker kit' (including a billet crank) from, for under $6k??? IIRC, JAWS's offers a piston/rod kit for around $3,900, but I don't think that includes a crank, or any crank work for that matter...
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Discussing Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)