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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Thu, Nov-29-2012, 03:19:32 AM   #21
nickpiper12
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Originally Posted by bigugly View Post
i did an S54 with pauter rods, NASCAR bearings, reground crank (in-house!) and JE pistons..... twas pretty neat


if yall want something similar lemme know, ill get ya set up
more info!
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Old Thu, Nov-29-2012, 03:29:29 AM   #22
bigugly
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

well- if you want to fix the rod bearing issue- start from scratch


get some GOOD bearings in it
put some GOOD rods in it.
put some GOOD pistons in it. (we bumped compression to 14.5:1 for race fuel)
whoop ass accordingly
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Old Thu, Nov-29-2012, 03:34:42 PM   #23
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Originally Posted by bigugly View Post
well- if you want to fix the rod bearing issue- start from scratch


get some GOOD bearings in it
put some GOOD rods in it.
put some GOOD pistons in it. (we bumped compression to 14.5:1 for race fuel)
whoop ass accordingly
Would you mind posting up and/or PM'ing me some more details of the build, very interested! Thx!
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Old Sat, Dec-01-2012, 09:33:31 PM   #24
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

I mean literally that's the specs lol. I have the technology to do that type of work. I think it you are gonna build the bottom end like that, you might as well have me fully port and polish the head, flow bench it and put some cams/springs/valves with a custom valve job. No, I'm not talking about a standard "performance" valve job. I have proprietary cuts that can be proven to show power increases- just from the valve seat being changed. Now...... If we could get a stand alone harness to work on it with the factory DME, we could dyno it as well
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Old Sat, Dec-01-2012, 10:43:33 PM   #25
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Originally Posted by bigugly View Post
I mean literally that's the specs lol. I have the technology to do that type of work. I think it you are gonna build the bottom end like that, you might as well have me fully port and polish the head, flow bench it and put some cams/springs/valves with a custom valve job. No, I'm not talking about a standard "performance" valve job. I have proprietary cuts that can be proven to show power increases- just from the valve seat being changed. Now...... If we could get a stand alone harness to work on it with the factory DME, we could dyno it as well
Ok, thanx! Let me get more specific...did you use oversize valves in your head & what cams are you using? VANOS delete, or retaining the VANOS? Any dyno graphs that you would mind sharing w/the forum?
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Old Sun, Dec-02-2012, 01:53:09 AM   #26
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Originally Posted by stash1 View Post

.did you use oversize valves in your head & what cams are you using?

we built it as the customer wanted it. he brought us 2 engines out of his race car and we made one good one. he had factory valves/springs and CSL cams. If you want major head work - the only thing limiting you is your pocket book lol

VANOS delete, or retaining the VANOS?
modified Dr. Vanos assembly to limit the amount of timing change.

Any dyno graphs that you would mind sharing w/the forum?

sorry, we didnt dyno it. A) he took the engine to finish the build (he was on a budget and time constraint) B) we dont have a stand alone wiring harness and DME to run it on the dyno. that would be thousands of dollars for a very niche market.
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Old Tue, Dec-04-2012, 05:31:27 PM   #27
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Originally Posted by stash1 View Post
FWIW, I've seen some other stroker kits come to market recently in the $4k range (supposedly using high quality forgings), but I can't frickin' remember where...think I saw where Jaws Motorsports was offering one and I made a reference to another one over on E46fanatics. (If I get real motivated, I'll go look it up.)
stash1, you're reply got me delving deeper into a "home grown" stroker possibility and I think I've come up with a decent alternative. Albeit a little more planning and involvement on the part of the individual would be required. It's really just gee-whiz info, and can be pinged by a forum search in the event someone else might be intrigued, or just needs some measurements.

The biggest concerns I've approached with caution are (1) rod:stroke (r/s) ratio and (2) main:rod journal overlap.

(1) In stock trim the S54 has a 1.52 r/s ratio. A deck height of 216.9mm (8.54") doesn't leave much room to get too extreme on the rod lengths without severely affecting piston compression height and ring land spacing. I don't know the measurements of vendor stroker kits so I really have no comparison, but I'm interested to know how they manage a 97mm crank and what the r/s ratios are.

(2) According to my calculations, in stock trim the S54 maintains about a 7-8mm (+/-) main:rod journal overlap. Since we wouldn't have the benefits of running a redesigned forging, but rather removing material from the journals, it's ABSOLUTELY imperative to maintain as much overlap as possible to prevent crank flex.

Strictly for this arena, I've calculated 3.4l as the best compromise, with an 87.5mm bore and 95mm stroke (209 CID, 3428cc). We're looking at roughly a 6% increase in displacement and a 4% increase in stroke.

Again, to rehash the point of maintaining nothing less than the stock r/s ratio, I've found that rods out of a 2005+ Ford Focus (Ford 2.0l Duratec) fit the bill. The pertinent measurements are:

5.758" c-c length
1.970" BE bore (Duratec has 1.85" journals)
.860" BE width

This will give us a r/s ratio of 1.53, which is a bit better than stock, and not too aggressive as to severely affect piston dwell. 0.912" compression height doesn't seem to be that bad either, but I'd caution against saying that oil ring supports wouldn't be needed for the pin bores (a minor expense when getting custom pistons).

As far as crank work is concerned, of course you're looking at offset grinding. Now here's where the math and research pay off. We're increasing stroke by +4mm but only need to remove 2mm of material from the journal. Not only does this give us the desired 95mm stroke, but leaves us with enough material to finish up with a 1.85" journal dia., and still maintain decent main:rod overlap. Keep in mind that there's quite a huge spread in pricing when doing an offset-ground stroker as opposed to a welded stroker where material would need to be added, stress relief done and possible straightening.

You're probably looking at anywhere from $200-$250 to have the journals offset ground/polished to size and another $80-$130 to have the rod BE and bearings milled from .860" to .784" (.038" each side & I'd have an additional set of bearings done to keep in stock). For all intents and purposes you can increase the journal width but since we've already removed a significant amount of material it's not really a great idea to start messing with the cheeks, other than machining a deeper radius. I'd also consider nitriding, indexing, and probably a DFL (dry film lube) application.

Considering everything were to remain the same, efficiency wise, I'd guesstimate a possible 25-30HP increase. I don't want to quote an estimate on total cost, as people would have their own ideas on component selection and shopping around. BUT, if strategically planned, one could stand the chance of having a pretty inexpensive stroker that wouldn't be too far outta reach.
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- Checksum corrections for modified DME partial & full bin files

- CSL SMG Engine Parameters (DME) by Slim

- Fuel adaptations explained

- Checksum Verification

Last edited by SliM3; Tue, Dec-04-2012 at 05:35:35 PM.
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Old Tue, Dec-04-2012, 06:54:59 PM   #28
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

been so long since we've had this kind of thread in the e46 section.


bigugly - can we see the engine in action anywhere online?
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Old Tue, Dec-04-2012, 10:23:30 PM   #29
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

I'm scared to want to get involved in this thread as I've just do finished a second engine build for the vette and my budget doesn't really allow something like a no limit motor build on my m3 BUT.. This car is much better than I anticipated (not that I didn't think highly of the m3 already) and since I plan to keep it for a long time an engine build will happen when the opportunity arises.

What is the maximum bore possible ? Are liners possible? I wouldn't be afraid of pushing the oil control ring into the pin area.

Are there any aftermarket cranks available for the s54? I would imagine the crank is fairly lightweight to begin with.
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Old Wed, Dec-05-2012, 02:26:52 AM   #30
bigugly
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Originally Posted by Vox Populi View Post
been so long since we've had this kind of thread in the e46 section.

bigugly - can we see the engine in action anywhere online?

Unfortunately, the engine lived in a race car. This was a budget rebuild to get the car back on the track, due to the fact that the engine (previously) was put together in what looked like a sand box, and the rods were not torqued correctly, damaging his first engine. Despite our efforts to have the valves/springs/retainers replaced for race insurance, the owner didn't have the money to do that- and it dropped a valve a few races down the road.

We offered to rebuild the engine (again) for HALF the labor to help him out (obviously no lower end work would cause a random valve to drop- it was just a freak accident...) but he said he was out of money for the season.

The dropped valve damaged the block, one piston and the head.
The block was trashed, one piston from JE would fix that bottom up, and the head could have even been salvaged..... But that's where we stood with that one.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 5ABIVT View Post
I'm scared to want to get involved in this thread as I've just do finished a second engine build for the vette and my budget doesn't really allow something like a no limit motor build on my m3 BUT.. This car is much better than I anticipated (not that I didn't think highly of the m3 already) and since I plan to keep it for a long time an engine build will happen when the opportunity arises.

What is the maximum bore possible ? Are liners possible? I wouldn't be afraid of pushing the oil control ring into the pin area.

me neither, we did a (no joke!) 837 cubic inch big block - it had the wrist pins WAY into the oil ring. JE uses these super stiff rings to support the oil ring in the floaty area

Are there any aftermarket cranks available for the s54? I would imagine the crank is fairly lightweight to begin with.
I think an ultimate would be an ultra light. Knife the crank, aluminum or Ti rods, light weight pistons, under drive pullies, super light flywheel etc.etc.


Basically make it rev very quickly. Would sound super neat


My m3 has a clutch masters FX800.... The whole rotating assembly weighs like 14 lbs


It makes revving the car SUPER fast and fun blipping between gears/down shifting etc.
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Discussing Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)