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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sat, Jan-12-2019, 01:48:22 PM   #61
RedOctober330
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
E30 and e36 guys said the same thing about the e46 when it was new. It’s just how it is.


Agreed, and while a lot of people like the e30 and e36, I think you still see more stuff about the e46. E9x has been out for 10 years now, and a lot of folks say even there, the “enthusiast” community isn’t as big or active. As cars become more electronic, and more difficult to work on, people become less and less drivers and more passengers. Passion drops. I’d bet $100 you don’t see many articles 10 years from now taking about how the F80 M3 is a “dream drivers car.”
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Old Sat, Jan-12-2019, 02:16:59 PM   #62
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

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Agreed, and while a lot of people like the e30 and e36, I think you still see more stuff about the e46. E9x has been out for 10 years now, and a lot of folks say even there, the “enthusiast” community isn’t as big or active. As cars become more electronic, and more difficult to work on, people become less and less drivers and more passengers. Passion drops. I’d bet $100 you don’t see many articles 10 years from now taking about how the F80 M3 is a “dream drivers car.”
The newer stuff is on a different performance/precision level... you really gain a lot more than you lose. That said, they are "different"... cars have changed and they will continue to do so.

The F80's future remains to be seen - it's still too new to really know. But from what I can see already, it's popular because of it's HUGE power potential and killer chassis.

The E9XM has a pretty healthy enthusiast following - it's a fantastic drivers car and really the end of the "older" era. But at the risk and getting into another debate with Terra (wink, wink), it's too heavy and slow to every come close to mathcing the 46M's following/popularity. Plus, the 46 looks WAY better.

And that's a huge part of it - while the F80 M3 is close, the 46M is still, easily, the most visually appealing M3 of all time. That matters, a lot. It also happens to be a very well rounded drivers car.

(now someone make me an offer on my SG car so I can get into another JB car.... haha)
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Old Sat, Jan-12-2019, 02:31:27 PM   #63
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

The next M3 will almost certainly be a better version of the same concept as the F8X. BMW seems to be making much better cars now than they were 7-10 years ago (they're still not making anything I want for a sporty car), and I see no reason that trend shouldn't continue with the M3. I don't know anyone who things the F10 is superior to the F90, or that the F30 is superior to the G20-- BMW was at their lowest point of sportiness when the last generation chassis came out.

Similarly, the e46 was last time where BMW basically evolved the same concept (e46 being an evolved e36). The e30 is a very different car than the e36, and the e9X is a very different car than the e46. But, the e46 is fundamentally very similar to the e36, just with every aspect of it worked over and improved. (that said, the e36 is a MUCH more fun/rewarding/involving to drive chassis than the F30)

My guess is that the F8X will end up like the e36. They'll be some people that like it, but it'll mostly live in the shadow of the superior car that followed it.

That will be hampered somewhat by modern BMWs being a HUGE pain in the ass to work on. I sold our e9X because I couldn't stand working on it. The current crop is much worse than the e9X was. I suspect the F8X will have a reduced enthusiast base because you can't buy it post depreciation, and then afford to run it by DIYing the repairs nearly as easily. The F8X is also kind of... generic. BMW is no longer doing their own thing, like they did prior to the F8X. Everyone makes a turbo eps sports sedan these days, that's roughly the same speed. And, it's just too big these days to really be a sports car. It's more moved into the M5 category, imo (bigger than an e39... and the size of the e39 is why I stopped DDing our M5-- ruined the experience for me).

I think the e9X will be looked fondly upon, if for no other reason than it's NA, has steering feel, and (sometimes) manual. With that becoming increasingly scarce, everything NA and/or manual will start to rise.

... but I believe the e30 and e46 will remained looked upon as high water marks for the 3 series, and increasingly the e46 over the e30.
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Old Sat, Jan-12-2019, 08:31:54 PM   #64
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

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The next M3 will almost certainly be a better version of the same concept as the F8X. BMW seems to be making much better cars now than they were 7-10 years ago (they're still not making anything I want for a sporty car), and I see no reason that trend shouldn't continue with the M3. I don't know anyone who things the F10 is superior to the F90, or that the F30 is superior to the G20-- BMW was at their lowest point of sportiness when the last generation chassis came out.

Similarly, the e46 was last time where BMW basically evolved the same concept (e46 being an evolved e36). The e30 is a very different car than the e36, and the e9X is a very different car than the e46. But, the e46 is fundamentally very similar to the e36, just with every aspect of it worked over and improved. (that said, the e36 is a MUCH more fun/rewarding/involving to drive chassis than the F30)

My guess is that the F8X will end up like the e36. They'll be some people that like it, but it'll mostly live in the shadow of the superior car that followed it.

That will be hampered somewhat by modern BMWs being a HUGE pain in the ass to work on. I sold our e9X because I couldn't stand working on it. The current crop is much worse than the e9X was. I suspect the F8X will have a reduced enthusiast base because you can't buy it post depreciation, and then afford to run it by DIYing the repairs nearly as easily. The F8X is also kind of... generic. BMW is no longer doing their own thing, like they did prior to the F8X. Everyone makes a turbo eps sports sedan these days, that's roughly the same speed. And, it's just too big these days to really be a sports car. It's more moved into the M5 category, imo (bigger than an e39... and the size of the e39 is why I stopped DDing our M5-- ruined the experience for me).

I think the e9X will be looked fondly upon, if for no other reason than it's NA, has steering feel, and (sometimes) manual. With that becoming increasingly scarce, everything NA and/or manual will start to rise.

... but I believe the e30 and e46 will remained looked upon as high water marks for the 3 series, and increasingly the e46 over the e30.
Good post, I generally agree. I think the G80 M3 will be lighter, more refined (the F80 is hugely unrefined), have better steering and less turbo lag. Assuming it looks killer it will be a way better overall car than the F80. But I doubt it will be anywhere near the same "step up" that was 36 --> 46. That was MASSIVE, just as the step up from the E9XM to the F80 was MASSIVE.... literally no contest in both cases.

However, as you say, the modern stuff is very complex. If the reliability holds solid then they will be very popular enthusiast cars. We'll see.

But I still think the E9XM is the odd duck. It's stuck in-between. The new stuff blows it out of the water, but the older stuff is more fun. But it is fast, reliable and sounds good so it will probably become the new 46M as the 46s get long in the tooth. It (E90) is by far the most refined M3 to date..... that's good and bad.
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Last edited by EricSMG; Sat, Jan-12-2019 at 08:39:06 PM.
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Old Sat, Jan-12-2019, 09:01:20 PM   #65
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Obioban View Post
The next M3 will almost certainly be a better version of the same concept as the F8X. BMW seems to be making much better cars now than they were 7-10 years ago (they're still not making anything I want for a sporty car), and I see no reason that trend shouldn't continue with the M3. I don't know anyone who things the F10 is superior to the F90, or that the F30 is superior to the G20-- BMW was at their lowest point of sportiness when the last generation chassis came out.

Similarly, the e46 was last time where BMW basically evolved the same concept (e46 being an evolved e36). The e30 is a very different car than the e36, and the e9X is a very different car than the e46. But, the e46 is fundamentally very similar to the e36, just with every aspect of it worked over and improved. (that said, the e36 is a MUCH more fun/rewarding/involving to drive chassis than the F30)

My guess is that the F8X will end up like the e36. They'll be some people that like it, but it'll mostly live in the shadow of the superior car that followed it.

That will be hampered somewhat by modern BMWs being a HUGE pain in the ass to work on. I sold our e9X because I couldn't stand working on it. The current crop is much worse than the e9X was. I suspect the F8X will have a reduced enthusiast base because you can't buy it post depreciation, and then afford to run it by DIYing the repairs nearly as easily. The F8X is also kind of... generic. BMW is no longer doing their own thing, like they did prior to the F8X. Everyone makes a turbo eps sports sedan these days, that's roughly the same speed. And, it's just too big these days to really be a sports car. It's more moved into the M5 category, imo (bigger than an e39... and the size of the e39 is why I stopped DDing our M5-- ruined the experience for me).

I think the e9X will be looked fondly upon, if for no other reason than it's NA, has steering feel, and (sometimes) manual. With that becoming increasingly scarce, everything NA and/or manual will start to rise.

... but I believe the e30 and e46 will remained looked upon as high water marks for the 3 series, and increasingly the e46 over the e30.
Mechanically the the F3x/F8x chassis is basically a worked over E9x, very similar to the E46 vs E36 chassis. Where things have changed is how BMW approaches engines, and I think a lot of that is due to changing regulations, particularly in Europe. Otherwise I believe the intention was to have it be an E36/E46 situation. On a different worldline, the F8x would perhaps have an S65 with all excess mass removed throughout the rotating assembly to achieve 9K RPM (much like the S54 vs S50).

G20 seems to be continuing with more of the same. I'm a little surprised they didn't end up going with double wishbone front suspension like the 5 and 7. Perhaps the M could still get that.
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Old Sat, Jan-12-2019, 09:47:59 PM   #66
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Mechanically the the F3x/F8x chassis is basically a worked over E9x, very similar to the E46 vs E36 chassis.
Yep.

In both cases we have a new/initial design, followed by a vastly improved iteration of that new design. Aggressiveness, precision, response, power, grip, rigidity and looks.
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Old Mon, Jan-14-2019, 09:59:00 PM   #67
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

I love my E46 - have owned it for about 5 year now and every year I feel like I am more attached and in love with her
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Old Tue, Jan-15-2019, 11:31:46 AM   #68
Obioban
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
Mechanically the the F3x/F8x chassis is basically a worked over E9x, very similar to the E46 vs E36 chassis. Where things have changed is how BMW approaches engines, and I think a lot of that is due to changing regulations, particularly in Europe. Otherwise I believe the intention was to have it be an E36/E46 situation. On a different worldline, the F8x would perhaps have an S65 with all excess mass removed throughout the rotating assembly to achieve 9K RPM (much like the S54 vs S50).

G20 seems to be continuing with more of the same. I'm a little surprised they didn't end up going with double wishbone front suspension like the 5 and 7. Perhaps the M could still get that.
Yeah, but they feel completely unrelated. HPS vs EPS, mechanical diff vs computer diff, and the S65 define the driving experience of the F8X... and couldn't be more different than the S55.

Whereas the e46 is a very similar experience to the e36, just more.
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Old Tue, Jan-15-2019, 01:14:55 PM   #69
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

Been DD'ing my M3 for the past 5 years (no winter) and concluded that it will be damn hard to get a better DD for me. The E46 M3 is litteraly perfect for my needs.

But as my familly is getting bigger now, currently have a toddler and another one coming, i am getting more and more interested in a E90 M3 with 4 doors.

Currently with a baby seat in the back i have absolutely no problem with the M3 and actually it is easier to get my kid in the M3 than the 4-door E46 330xi since the M3 seat folds to the front allowing my to put my feet in the back seat instead of extending my arms in the 330, hard to explain but better to put a kid in the M3 than the 330.

My concern is with the 2nd baby seat, it might start to get crowded.

Also looked at the E39 M5 but seems bit Uncle'ish to me, as in, it looks nice, it sounds nice, it has a bit more room but i doubt it will drive like my E46 M3.

All in all, once i have tasted DD'ing the E46 M3 i have a really really hard time trying to find a better DD.
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Old Tue, Jan-15-2019, 01:29:34 PM   #70
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Default Re: My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy?

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Originally Posted by BigLooga View Post
Been DD'ing my M3 for the past 5 years (no winter) and concluded that it will be damn hard to get a better DD for me. The E46 M3 is litteraly perfect for my needs.

But as my familly is getting bigger now, currently have a toddler and another one coming, i am getting more and more interested in a E90 M3 with 4 doors.

Currently with a baby seat in the back i have absolutely no problem with the M3 and actually it is easier to get my kid in the M3 than the 4-door E46 330xi since the M3 seat folds to the front allowing my to put my feet in the back seat instead of extending my arms in the 330, hard to explain but better to put a kid in the M3 than the 330.

My concern is with the 2nd baby seat, it might start to get crowded.

Also looked at the E39 M5 but seems bit Uncle'ish to me, as in, it looks nice, it sounds nice, it has a bit more room but i doubt it will drive like my E46 M3.

All in all, once i have tasted DD'ing the E46 M3 i have a really really hard time trying to find a better DD.
As soon as a second baby was on the way, I got an suv for daily duty. The SUV takes the daily beating, saved my M3 a shitload of scratches and dents, and most importantly miles. Best thing I ever did lol.
Besides it used to drive me crazy if my kid stepped on the leather seats with his shoes, I mean, I love the little guy, but my seats man, common
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Discussing My m3 seems to get better and better every year, am I crazy? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)