BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Sat, Oct-06-2018, 12:37:18 AM   #181
haas16
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 3
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 haas16 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chapelle View Post
If you have a welder who is experienced with this job or can weld thin sheet metal, that seems to be the preferred method. If not, it becomes very easy to create more problems with ineffective or burned through welds.

Epoxy is used in several automotive and aeronautical applications where its strength can be relied on in the harshest environment.

Either application can be ruined without proper pre and post-treatment such as rust removal and undercoat protection.

I went with welded because my installer had done several jobs prior.
Thanks for the info. Iíll check with the shop I was going to go with if they have a welder who does these well.
Jump to top haas16 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Sun, Oct-21-2018, 02:15:14 AM   #182
terraphantm
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,482
In the garage:
Reputation: 11 terraphantm is on a distinguished road
Location: Philadelphia

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

I've been awake nearly 40 hours and completed 28 hour shift earlier, so this will be quick.

Just to update this thread - I dropped off my car at Matt's (Coinage) shop about 2 weeks ago and picked it up today. Car was actually done earlier, but I couldn't pick the car up until this morning due to my schedule.

As we knew, my car had some cracks. All in all it didn't look as bad as some other samples I've seen, especially considering my car has 170k miles. Worst of it was apparently the wheel arch edges, which I don't have a good picture of (Matt might). On the floor itself the front right mount was the main damage, which you can see below:



Cracks were repaired, Redish plates were welded in, and everything was rust proofed. He described the rust proofing as:

Quote:
I use POR15 on the bare metal and a 3m undercoating top coat to fill any small voids
Here's a picture of how that ended up looking:



Then from the top, a VinceBar (I believe the new design?) was installed, along with his front gusset cups. I don't currently have good pictures of that.

While he was in there, I also had Matt do the following:

Replace diff bushings (stock)
Replace diff seals/fluid
Replace subframe bushings (stock)
Replace RTABs (Turner Monoball V2.0)
Replace Trailing Arm Ball Joints (stock)
Replace Lower Control Arms (Ground Control Sealed Ball Joint Camber Arm)
Replace Upper inner control arm bushings

As far as my impressions: It's pretty much what I was going for. The car feels more solid from the driver's seat without really impacting the character or quality of the ride. I can shift through gears quickly without upsetting the balance of the car and I can give pretty much full power out of corners without feeling uneasy. Ride quality wise it's absolutely no worse than before I brought in the car, and may actually be improved over uneven surfaces and such. I've heard of people complain of some harshness over road reflectors, uneven pavement, expansion joints, etc when using monoball RTABs. I get none of that.

Perhaps most importantly, I can now drive this car as hard as I want without having that worry at the back of my mind of destroying my rear end.

In hindsight, I think I should have gone with solid rear subframe bushings since apparently those don't add any NVH, but I'm happy with how everything turned out nonetheless. From what I hear, there may be a replica of the BMW Motorsport subframe bushings at some point in the future, and I may go for those when the time comes.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_4342.jpg (490.3 KB, 220 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_4364.jpg (671.5 KB, 218 views)
__________________

Last edited by terraphantm; Sun, Oct-21-2018 at 02:21:30 AM.
Jump to top terraphantm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Oct-21-2018, 02:22:07 AM   #183
Exclusivs
Registered User
 
Exclusivs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 383
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Exclusivs is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Must feel good! Nice work, and agree with your assessments. Did you go w weld/or rivet VinceBar? A complete refresh of bushings / balljoints / arms + solidity of Reddish plates/ and top bar. Very nice! Glad to hear the car is fully sorted!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jump to top Exclusivs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Oct-21-2018, 02:26:12 AM   #184
terraphantm
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 11,482
In the garage:
Reputation: 11 terraphantm is on a distinguished road
Location: Philadelphia

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Exclusivs View Post
Must feel good! Nice work, and agree with your assessments. Did you go w weld/or rivet VinceBar? A complete refresh of bushings / balljoints / arms + solidity of Reddish plates/ and top bar. Very nice! Glad to hear the car is fully sorted!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I went with the weld kit. Matt was more comfortable with welding, and with there being cracks present, it's not like welding could have been avoided altogether anyway. If I had a low mileage car with no cracks whatsoever, I would have pushed for epoxy + rivets.

And yeah definitely figured I may as well do it right and do everything in the rear end while we're at it. My wallet is definitely lighter now, but it's something that had to be done if I intend to keep this car long term (which I do). At this point, not a single bushing on the car is original to the car (though my front end could perhaps use a 2nd refresh).
__________________
Jump to top terraphantm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Oct-21-2018, 02:31:40 AM   #185
Exclusivs
Registered User
 
Exclusivs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 383
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Exclusivs is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Awesome job! Agree half the battle is using what you/or installer are comfortable/ have experience with. Enjoy the solid refreshed rear end feeling for miles to come!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Jump to top Exclusivs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Oct-21-2018, 05:58:31 PM   #186
mrgizmo04
Registered User
 
mrgizmo04's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,693
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mrgizmo04 is on a distinguished road
Location: Menlo Park

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Nice, enjoy!

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
__________________
'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: VANOS, WPC rod bearings, full SS (SS stepped V1 headers, catted S1, stock S2, SS sport), AFD E85 Proflex kit, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, Beyer driveshaft, valve adjustment, cooling refresh.

Happy to help with VANOS or any other DIY job around NorCal
Jump to top mrgizmo04 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sun, Oct-21-2018, 06:04:22 PM   #187
mcfreid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 252
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 mcfreid is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
I've been awake nearly 40 hours and completed 28 hour shift earlier, so this will be quick.

Just to update this thread - I dropped off my car at Matt's (Coinage) shop about 2 weeks ago and picked it up today. Car was actually done earlier, but I couldn't pick the car up until this morning due to my schedule.

As we knew, my car had some cracks. All in all it didn't look as bad as some other samples I've seen, especially considering my car has 170k miles. Worst of it was apparently the wheel arch edges, which I don't have a good picture of (Matt might). On the floor itself the front right mount was the main damage, which you can see below:



Cracks were repaired, Redish plates were welded in, and everything was rust proofed. He described the rust proofing as:



Here's a picture of how that ended up looking:



Then from the top, a VinceBar (I believe the new design?) was installed, along with his front gusset cups. I don't currently have good pictures of that.

While he was in there, I also had Matt do the following:

Replace diff bushings (stock)
Replace diff seals/fluid
Replace subframe bushings (stock)
Replace RTABs (Turner Monoball V2.0)
Replace Trailing Arm Ball Joints (stock)
Replace Lower Control Arms (Ground Control Sealed Ball Joint Camber Arm)
Replace Upper inner control arm bushings

As far as my impressions: It's pretty much what I was going for. The car feels more solid from the driver's seat without really impacting the character or quality of the ride. I can shift through gears quickly without upsetting the balance of the car and I can give pretty much full power out of corners without feeling uneasy. Ride quality wise it's absolutely no worse than before I brought in the car, and may actually be improved over uneven surfaces and such. I've heard of people complain of some harshness over road reflectors, uneven pavement, expansion joints, etc when using monoball RTABs. I get none of that.

Perhaps most importantly, I can now drive this car as hard as I want without having that worry at the back of my mind of destroying my rear end.

In hindsight, I think I should have gone with solid rear subframe bushings since apparently those don't add any NVH, but I'm happy with how everything turned out nonetheless. From what I hear, there may be a replica of the BMW Motorsport subframe bushings at some point in the future, and I may go for those when the time comes.
Nice, this is exactly what I'm hoping to have Matt perform on my car this winter! Glad to hear it went well. Now just waiting for Vince to replenish his stock of weld-in vincebars.
Jump to top mcfreid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Jan-11-2019, 09:04:41 PM   #188
tdott
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 90
Reputation: 0 tdott is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Trying to decide what to do here in 2019.

I have a 2001 6spd M3 vert w/118k miles I just picked up. Had to do some rear end work. (RTAB, Ball joints) Decided to drop the sub-frame. I cleaned up the mounting points and confirmed there are no cracks.

After reading everything, it seems like just doing the plates won't prevent issues. Being a vert, this is planned to be a weekend cruiser, no track/drag strip here.

Should I just clean everything up, change everything I am there for and put it back together? Hmm, originally I was planning to weld or epoxy a set of plates in as I assumed that was the best approach, but I haven't ordered a set yet. Now I am not so sure anymore...

First E46 M3 yay.
Had several other Ms and BMWs.
Jump to top tdott is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Jan-11-2019, 09:16:40 PM   #189
Aeko
Registered User
 
Aeko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 38
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Aeko is on a distinguished road
Location: Houston

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdott View Post
Trying to decide what to do here in 2019.

Should I just clean everything up, change everything I am there for and put it back together? Hmm, originally I was planning to weld or epoxy a set of plates in as I assumed that was the best approach, but I haven't ordered a set yet. Now I am not so sure anymore...

First E46 M3 yay.
Had several other Ms and BMWs.
I'm of the opinion I'd rather pay a little now than a lot later. Putting some money into doing the plates now, especially while it's apart, is a wise idea considering M3s are especially susceptible to it. It also increases the resale appeal should you ever decide to do so. Even just changing the subframe mounting bushings to solid should help prevent issues.

An aside.. I just bought my first M3, an '02 coupe @137k. Initially I thought I could get away with just reinforcement (turns out it has some nasty cracks). I did a lot of research on this and what I've come across tells me that while epoxy is strong, in most situations it will be prone to moisture being trapped during the application process and may eventually fail. As much as I'd like for the epoxied plates to be viable, welding may be the only option. I'd do it myself but I don't have anywhere I can use a welder.
Jump to top Aeko is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Fri, Jan-11-2019, 10:50:53 PM   #190
Goose81
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 847
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Goose81 is on a distinguished road
Location: St. Louis

United States




Default Re: Best subframe repair options as of July 2018?

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
I've been awake nearly 40 hours and completed 28 hour shift earlier, so this will be quick.

Just to update this thread - I dropped off my car at Matt's (Coinage) shop about 2 weeks ago and picked it up today. Car was actually done earlier, but I couldn't pick the car up until this morning due to my schedule.

As we knew, my car had some cracks. All in all it didn't look as bad as some other samples I've seen, especially considering my car has 170k miles. Worst of it was apparently the wheel arch edges, which I don't have a good picture of (Matt might). On the floor itself the front right mount was the main damage, which you can see below:



Cracks were repaired, Redish plates were welded in, and everything was rust proofed. He described the rust proofing as:



Here's a picture of how that ended up looking:



Then from the top, a VinceBar (I believe the new design?) was installed, along with his front gusset cups. I don't currently have good pictures of that.

While he was in there, I also had Matt do the following:

Replace diff bushings (stock)
Replace diff seals/fluid
Replace subframe bushings (stock)
Replace RTABs (Turner Monoball V2.0)
Replace Trailing Arm Ball Joints (stock)
Replace Lower Control Arms (Ground Control Sealed Ball Joint Camber Arm)
Replace Upper inner control arm bushings

As far as my impressions: It's pretty much what I was going for. The car feels more solid from the driver's seat without really impacting the character or quality of the ride. I can shift through gears quickly without upsetting the balance of the car and I can give pretty much full power out of corners without feeling uneasy. Ride quality wise it's absolutely no worse than before I brought in the car, and may actually be improved over uneven surfaces and such. I've heard of people complain of some harshness over road reflectors, uneven pavement, expansion joints, etc when using monoball RTABs. I get none of that.

Perhaps most importantly, I can now drive this car as hard as I want without having that worry at the back of my mind of destroying my rear end.

In hindsight, I think I should have gone with solid rear subframe bushings since apparently those don't add any NVH, but I'm happy with how everything turned out nonetheless. From what I hear, there may be a replica of the BMW Motorsport subframe bushings at some point in the future, and I may go for those when the time comes.
Mind me asking what all this cost you?
Jump to top Goose81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 11:50:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright ©1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing Best subframe repair options as of July 2018? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)