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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sun, Jan-26-2014, 10:43:50 PM   #41
AndrewLang
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Originally Posted by stash1 View Post
The kit from Robello Racing was $3,849 Andrew, so it's in the ballpark of your $3,500 estimate. I think pricing in this range is fairly 'reasonable' considering the limited demand of this market, and considering that most folks probably aren't interested in doing the necessary leg work/research to come up w/a kit on their own.

Also, it's nice to know that folks also now have another alternative (in you), to source a built motor from...good stuff Andrew!

Reviving this thread, still makes me wonder where I saw that 'billet stroker kit' (including a billet crank) from, for under $6k??? IIRC, JAWS's offers a piston/rod kit for around $3,900, but I don't think that includes a crank, or any crank work for that matter...
My intention wasn't specifically to post that price so people would consider me an alternative but more to illustrate that when it comes to hardware for engine components people should know what they are getting. I get a lot of phone calls about people selling "stroker kits" for very little money and then I have to spend lots of time explaining on the phone that not all stroker kits are equivalent. There are many ways to do things that cost varying amounts of money. Grinding a stock crankshaft and reducing rod bearing diameter significantly to obtain a worthwhile stroke increase might not be the way to do it if you are interested in a safe and reliable solution. Depending on your goals, your budget, and your willingness to open up your motor and check on it it may or may not be a good solution.

For someone like me it probably makes more sense as I tend to have lots of engine blocks and crankshafts sitting around that I can experiment with but, I don't know how comfortable I would be selling such an engine kit out the door and having to warranty my labor on it.

In a world where labor costs are starting to exceed parts costs I tend to prefer to use the highest quality parts I can get my hands on for a reasonable price. That's why, when I can afford to, I build stroker engines using billet crankshafts ground to my specifications. Although it costs more to design an engine from the ground up and use custom crankshafts, rods, and pistons, this is really the only way to obtain a significant stroke increase without absolutely destroying your rod ratio or sacrificing crankshaft/journal strength. That being said, it may not be prudent for some applications to go to those lengths. For most naturally aspirated applications a Eagle (or equivalent) manufactured in China type rod tends to be acceptable, for other applications it's more important to use the best quality stuff you can get your hands on.

There's so many options in building engines, I just hope that people know what those options are and realize what they are paying for.

Around here people charge this:
600-1000 to regrind a stock crankshaft depending on how much modification needs to be done. Usually measured in hours of unpleasantness they spend grinding away on your journals.
3600 for a custom billet inline 6 BMW crankshaft (on average)
Chinese rods: 95$ each
High quality custom Carrillo/Cunningham rods: 260-320 a piece.
custom pistons sets: 125-180 each.

Generally these are what things cost at least from what I've seen, obviously the prices range quite a bit depending on how you choose to do things. Any competent engine builder should have the resources to build/design an engine that works using either the lower quality stuff or the higher quality stuff but in the end you basically get what you pay for in terms of component quality unless you just overpay out of ignorance or someone is being dishonest about what they are putting into an engine.
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Old Thu, Jan-10-2019, 02:28:13 AM   #42
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

Digging up an old thread. I just did the math on weight saving of stock pistons (470 grams each) and stock rods (632 grams each) replaced by forged pistons at 350 grams each and forged rods around 500 grams each.

Total weight savings is about 1550 grams or the weight of essentially 3+ stock pistons or about 2.5 stock rods.

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Old Thu, Jan-10-2019, 07:52:12 AM   #43
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Digging up an old thread. I just did the math on weight saving of stock pistons (470 grams each) and stock rods (632 grams each) replaced by forged pistons at 350 grams each and forged rods around 500 grams each.

Total weight savings is about 1550 grams or the weight of essentially 3+ stock pistons or about 2.5 stock rods.

Feff
This must lower kinetic energy exponentially, enabling power at higher piston speeds If one is inclined to rev past 8k
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Old Thu, Jan-10-2019, 01:34:10 PM   #44
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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This must lower kinetic energy exponentially, enabling power at higher piston speeds If one is inclined to rev past 8k
My rods came in even under that weight, can't remember what my pistons were but that sounds right. I'll check the build sheet later. But thats my plan after I update my valvetrain
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Engine: Karbonius CSL airbox, Lang Racing stage 2.5 head, Schrick 288/280 cams & followers, Lang Racing rod journal widening kit w/ CP 12:1 87.5mm pistons & Carrillo rods, ARP head studs, Epic Motorsports tune, TMS Power Pulleys, ECS catch can, SS V1 stepped headers & catless section 1, SS 2.5 twin-piped resonated section 2, SGT scza section 3.
Drivetrain: Clutch Masters FX725, Clutch Masters Hydraulic TB, RTD V2 mini shifter, RE trans mounts, Motorsport 4.10 R&P, Revshift 80A diff bushings, mason clutch pedal.
Suspension/Brakes: Bilstein PSS9's, RE RSM's, UUC sway bars, PFC direct drive rotors, PFC 08's, Nitto NT05's, Motorsport Hardware 75mm stud kit.
Coming soon: Cobra Nogaro seats, BW Street/Track rear camber arms, Turner monoball RTAB's.

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Old Thu, Jan-10-2019, 01:42:55 PM   #45
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

Even tho I have the valvetrain to do so. I keep it at 8k still....
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Old Thu, Jan-10-2019, 01:57:12 PM   #46
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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Even tho I have the valvetrain to do so. I keep it at 8k still....
What valvetrain are you on? also I imagine there's not as much of a need/desire to rev out a FI motor as much.
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2001 E46 M3 - Slicktop Manual Coupe - Alpine White on Imola Red

Engine: Karbonius CSL airbox, Lang Racing stage 2.5 head, Schrick 288/280 cams & followers, Lang Racing rod journal widening kit w/ CP 12:1 87.5mm pistons & Carrillo rods, ARP head studs, Epic Motorsports tune, TMS Power Pulleys, ECS catch can, SS V1 stepped headers & catless section 1, SS 2.5 twin-piped resonated section 2, SGT scza section 3.
Drivetrain: Clutch Masters FX725, Clutch Masters Hydraulic TB, RTD V2 mini shifter, RE trans mounts, Motorsport 4.10 R&P, Revshift 80A diff bushings, mason clutch pedal.
Suspension/Brakes: Bilstein PSS9's, RE RSM's, UUC sway bars, PFC direct drive rotors, PFC 08's, Nitto NT05's, Motorsport Hardware 75mm stud kit.
Coming soon: Cobra Nogaro seats, BW Street/Track rear camber arms, Turner monoball RTAB's.

IG: Zach_e46M
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Old Fri, Jan-11-2019, 09:11:26 PM   #47
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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What valvetrain are you on? also I imagine there's not as much of a need/desire to rev out a FI motor as much.
Ferrea oversized on intake and exhaust, with their springs and updated retainers. Also port and polished.
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Old Mon, Jan-14-2019, 11:44:21 PM   #48
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

For giggles, I called to Pauter price titanium connecting rods (1/3 lighter than forged steel rods) for an S54. They are $1,080 each. Forged steel it is unless the oil well in the back yard kicks in.
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Old Tue, Jan-15-2019, 12:33:38 AM   #49
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Default Re: Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion

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For giggles, I called to Pauter price titanium connecting rods (1/3 lighter than forged steel rods) for an S54. They are $1,080 each. Forged steel it is unless the oil well in the back yard kicks in.
I think composites will be the next big step for engine internals. I hear Lamborghini wants to offer cf rods in the next Aventador, and this is one of the companies (below) currently developing cf rods for domestics.

https://www.lsxmag.com/tech-stories/...nnecting-rods/
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Discussing Forged Con-Rod Alternative - Discussion in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)