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M3 Track: Racing and DE Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start!


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Old Tue, Jul-23-2013, 02:52:39 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Can't you run a square set of the ZCP rear wheels?
+1 This is a perfect solution for you OP
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Old Tue, Jul-23-2013, 05:11:44 AM   #12
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Possibly purchase 2 rear ZCP wheels to swap on before a track day? That way the cost is less, and you can still have your staggered dd setup
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Old Tue, Jul-23-2013, 01:09:25 PM   #13
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Default Re: Minimizing understeer without square setup (ZCP wheels)

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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
Can't you run a square set of the ZCP rear wheels?
My initial thought was that this would look too weird on the street.
And then I saw this additional reply...

Quote:
Originally Posted by M3ANMACHINE View Post
Possibly purchase 2 rear ZCP wheels to swap on before a track day? That way the cost is less, and you can still have your staggered dd setup
Now, that is not a bad idea as I can pick up another set of 255/35/19 street tires for a very good price.
If I can find ZCP rears for a reasonable price, this solution might just work and lets me rotate rear tires as needed.

Thank you!

Last edited by eljay; Tue, Jul-23-2013 at 01:11:57 PM. Reason: merged posts
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Old Tue, Jul-23-2013, 04:52:54 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by eljay View Post
My initial thought was that this would look too weird on the street.
And then I saw this additional reply...


Now, that is not a bad idea as I can pick up another set of 255/35/19 street tires for a very good price.
If I can find ZCP rears for a reasonable price, this solution might just work and lets me rotate rear tires as needed.

Thank you!
I believe tischer bmw stocks them.

Also, if you want to run a square setup full-time, do it. It looks phenomenal
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Old Wed, Jul-24-2013, 06:07:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: Minimizing understeer without square setup (ZCP wheels)

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Originally Posted by M3ANMACHINE View Post
I believe tischer bmw stocks them.

Also, if you want to run a square setup full-time, do it. It looks phenomenal
I looked at some pictures of a square ZCP rear setups and I just don't like the look. For track, I don't care, so I'll still look into the cost of that option, especially after reading the wheel weights of the OEM 18s are noticeably higher than ZCP 19". Then again the tire wall on the 18" may just make up for that difference in grip even with the same tire width, right?

Another option I'm thinking about is finding a set of front OEM CSL wheels (19x8.5") and put 255/35/19 on those with 255/35/19 in the rear. I should be able to fit 255s on an 8.5" wheel, correct?
That would probably be a nice handling setup that I can run full-time street/track. I guess the downside would be that I won't be able to rotate wheels front to back. But maybe I'd go through the trouble of switching the back tires to the front half-way through their tread life.

Again, this would only be cost effective if I can find a deal on OEM CSL fronts, which is probably never gonna happen!

What do you guys think of this idea?
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Old Wed, Jul-24-2013, 06:24:50 PM   #16
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4 rears will be better. 8.5" square is too small
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Old Wed, Jul-24-2013, 06:42:20 PM   #17
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Default Re: Minimizing understeer without square setup (ZCP wheels)

Quote:
Originally Posted by eljay View Post
I looked at some pictures of a square ZCP rear setups and I just don't like the look. For track, I don't care, so I'll still look into the cost of that option, especially after reading the wheel weights of the OEM 18s are noticeably higher than ZCP 19". Then again the tire wall on the 18" may just make up for that difference in grip even with the same tire width, right?

Another option I'm thinking about is finding a set of front OEM CSL wheels (19x8.5") and put 255/35/19 on those with 255/35/19 in the rear. I should be able to fit 255s on an 8.5" wheel, correct?
That would probably be a nice handling setup that I can run full-time street/track. I guess the downside would be that I won't be able to rotate wheels front to back. But maybe I'd go through the trouble of switching the back tires to the front half-way through their tread life.

Again, this would only be cost effective if I can find a deal on OEM CSL fronts, which is probably never gonna happen!

What do you guys think of this idea?
To get less understeer, a cheaper route would be to run slicks up front and A/S tires in the rear with a sway bar on the rear on full stiff and run shocks full stiff. That should get you some nice rotation LOL.

If you're a novice, I don't think you want too much oversteer.

Get camber plates and better tires or run a square set up and play with pressures or do both.

Remember, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. =)

Good luck.
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Old Sun, Jul-28-2013, 03:13:05 AM   #18
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Default Re: Minimizing understeer without square setup (ZCP wheels)

Swap the strut hats. Then pull the struts upright in the slots to minimize the camber. No more understeer problems. In fact, you'll need to balance w/tire pressure to stop from oversteer rearing it's head.
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Old Tue, Aug-13-2013, 03:24:09 PM   #19
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Default Re: Minimizing understeer without square setup (ZCP wheels)

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Originally Posted by Vdub_FTW View Post
To get less understeer, a cheaper route would be to run slicks up front and A/S tires in the rear with a sway bar on the rear on full stiff and run shocks full stiff. That should get you some nice rotation LOL.

If you're a novice, I don't think you want too much oversteer.

Get camber plates and better tires or run a square set up and play with pressures or do both.

Remember, insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. =)

Good luck.
LOL, I'm looking for more neutral ride, not 911-style with the rear tailights checking whether the front blinkers are still working at every turn.

Well, I decided to look for two ZCP rear wheels.
My plan is put my two new 255 tires on those and put them onto the rear of the car and then take my existing rears with near-worn 255s and put them on the front the night before driving to the events. I think, currently, this will give me the cheapest way to a square setup and I'll only have to swap 2 wheels and I can drive to the event on them.
I think I will also need a 10mm spacer for the rear though, so if I leave that on there full-time, the understeer on the street will be much worse. Hmm...

These days we can push a button to adjust damping of suspension and engine mounts. Let's hope the next invention is to adjust the track width and camber at the push of a button.
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Old Fri, Aug-16-2013, 10:09:35 PM   #20
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Default Re: Minimizing understeer without square setup (ZCP wheels)

Just to add -- I've been running swapped strut hats for the past 15k miles on Michelin Pilot Super Sports with perfect tread wear all the way across. This setup with Eibach Pro-Kit springs on Koni Yellows provides 3.5 degrees of camber. My car is also my daily driver, seeing 80% highway and very little track time unfortunately.

Even with a square tire setup chances are you're still going to understeer until you add camber. So given the choice, I'd be swapping strut hats.
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Discussing Minimizing understeer without square setup (ZCP wheels) in the M3 Track: Racing and DE Forum - Best mod for speed is learning to get the most out of what you currently have. Tracks and DE's is the place to start! at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)