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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 04:04:29 PM   #21
TheDoogan
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

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Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
This is related/slightly off topic but:

I drive my car everyday (for work) and during cold start/drive, my SMG always seems to want to rev it up to 5-6K RPM on the first cycle shift (1st gear -> 2nd) then on the next cycle shift (1st->2nd) it goes back to normal cycle shifting at 2-3k RPM.
I assume this is how SMG was programmed from the factory.

Is reeving it to 5-6K RPM during cold start good for the engine (car is moving, not standstill reeving)?
I've been letting computer decide how to shift and not sure if it was good for the car.
It sounds like it's not ideal. I was very surprised to hear that we should keep it under 3,000 RPMs until the oil temp gauge is in the middle. I've tended to follow the tachometer caution / warm-up lights, and I tend to let her run up to 5500 RPM for shifts once it hits the first dot on the oil temp gauge; the one that seems to imply the beginning of the acceptable operational range.

But: I am certainly going to tread a little more lightly now!

DGN

PS- remember that when the SMG sequence was programmed, it was done so with an attempt to strike a balance between hundreds of factors. Not the least of which is: cars are built to please their FIRST owners. Not the second or third.
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Last edited by TheDoogan; Fri, Jan-12-2018 at 04:10:41 PM.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 04:17:38 PM   #22
mrgizmo04
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by LemonOne View Post
This is related/slightly off topic but:

I drive my car everyday (for work) and during cold start/drive, my SMG always seems to want to rev it up to 5-6K RPM on the first cycle shift (1st gear -> 2nd) then on the next cycle shift (1st->2nd) it goes back to normal cycle shifting at 2-3k RPM.
I assume this is how SMG was programmed from the factory.

Is reeving it to 5-6K RPM during cold start good for the engine (car is moving, not standstill reeving)?
I've been letting computer decide how to shift and not sure if it was good for the car.
I don't have an smg, but in general... if you first start the car cold, start dirivng, and your first couple of shifts are at 5-6k rpm, that is not good. That sounds like a bug in software. Also, shift/warm up lights on the tach (assuming you have everything programmed stock) are going off your coolant temp, which warms up MUCH quicker than the oil.

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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 04:26:46 PM   #23
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

Failure at high rpm is a result of degraded bearing surfaces, but not necessarily the initial cause of it.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 04:31:27 PM   #24
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

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Failure at high rpm is a result of degraded bearing surfaces, but not necessarily the initial cause of it.
S54 Z3Ms, with their 7600rpm redlines but identical hardware, do not suffer the same bearing wear as our 8000rpm S54s.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 05:22:37 PM   #25
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

Per what Ian said, I think there is some oil starvation going on at higher rpms on these engines, so the closer and the more frequently you want to play around 8k rpm (or even above), the faster your bearings will wear/fail.

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All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 05:42:46 PM   #26
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

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Originally Posted by mrgizmo04 View Post
Per what Ian said, I think there is some oil starvation going on at higher rpms on these engines, so the closer and the more frequently you want to play around 8k rpm (or even above), the faster your bearings will wear/fail.

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And yet I am quite positive the first two owners rarely if ever redlined my car, and I myself have only been over 7500 rpms a dozen times - and my bearings were quite worn by 68,000 miles.

I am sure you're right about operating at that range, but I have a feeling the first owner iof my car had the oil changed twice in her first 30,000 miles of ownership, and the second put so few miles on in his 4 years that he probably used the same oil for two years at a time. And both owners, I'm sure, disregarded the oil temp; and we all know these cars can feel sluggish amid traffic unless you shift at 4500rpm or better.

I'm hoping to put 100,000 more miles on this car (or more) in my time with it, and I'd love to see the idea of mitigating cold-start damage with frequent oil changes and babying until the oil is up to temp keep the bearings healthy.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 05:48:22 PM   #27
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

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Originally Posted by TheDoogan View Post
And yet I am quite positive the first two owners rarely if ever redlined my car, and I myself have only been over 7500 rpms a dozen times - and my bearings were quite worn by 68,000 miles.

I am sure you're right about operating at that range, but I have a feeling the first owner iof my car had the oil changed twice in her first 30,000 miles of ownership, and the second put so few miles on in his 4 years that he probably used the same oil for two years at a time. And both owners, I'm sure, disregarded the oil temp; and we all know these cars can feel sluggish amid traffic unless you shift at 4500rpm or better.

I'm hoping to put 100,000 more miles on this car (or more) in my time with it, and I'd love to see the idea of mitigating cold-start damage with frequent oil changes and babying until the oil is up to temp keep the bearings healthy.
I think there are many factors, one of which is definitely playing at high rpm. Others include shifting at higher rpm before it properly warms up, highway cruising at or above 6k (looking at you from other threads ).

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All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 06:13:10 PM   #28
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDoogan View Post
It sounds like it's not ideal. I was very surprised to hear that we should keep it under 3,000 RPMs until the oil temp gauge is in the middle. I've tended to follow the tachometer caution / warm-up lights, and I tend to let her run up to 5500 RPM for shifts once it hits the first dot on the oil temp gauge; the one that seems to imply the beginning of the acceptable operational range.

But: I am certainly going to tread a little more lightly now!

DGN

PS- remember that when the SMG sequence was programmed, it was done so with an attempt to strike a balance between hundreds of factors. Not the least of which is: cars are built to please their FIRST owners. Not the second or third.

Personally I don't let the oil warm up FULLY before passing 3k. I live on a road where I'm sometimes pulling out into traffic so keeping it rigidly under 3k isn't always realistic, but I do try to keep the engine speed as low as possible. I slowly start pushing it up as everything comes up to temp.

Normally when it's cold I'll shift out of first at 3.5k, then out of second at 3k and cruise in third keeping it around 3k. Once I get to the first dot I'll cruise around at 3-4k and from then I never go past 5.5k until it's 100% at temp (all at as light throttle as possible, of course).

To some degree I feel like there's a balance between lugging the engine and letting it rev.

All engines experience some of the highest wear and tear during cold start and shortly after. I don't believe a pre-oiler is the solution but I'd be amazed if an engine with one installed over 50-100k miles didn't see reduced wear.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 07:01:12 PM   #29
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

I think it's fine to go up to 4k once the oil temp needle reaches the first dot. You can even go up to 4k prior to the needle reaching the first dot if you choose. Definitely do it with a soft throttle and avoid hills or anything that will require a little more load on the engine.

I'm just a little a**l about how I warm up my car and so that's why I'm willing to wait until the needle reaches 210 degrees before I go past 3k. My method is not for everybody. It works for me so I'm cool with it plus my commute is 20 mins of back road driving before I hit a highway.
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Old Fri, Jan-12-2018, 07:06:13 PM   #30
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Default Re: Mitigating Cold Start Wear

My car never sees 210 in daily driving. I usually hover around 180-190. With very hard driving I can get it closer to 200, but it doesn't top that.

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All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.
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Discussing Mitigating Cold Start Wear in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)