BMW M3 Forum
BMW M3 Forum BMW M3 Gallery BMW M3 Reviews BMW M3 Social Groups BMW M3 Chat M3Forum Sponsors >>
Loading


Mobile M3forum
Go Back   BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) > BMW M3 Discussions > E46 M3 (2001-2006)
Tire Rack Buy Winter Tires Now!
Not a member? Register Now!
Register Gallery All Albums Garage Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Calendar FAQ

E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 05:10:19 PM   #41
fastsoup
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 190
Reputation: 0 fastsoup is on a distinguished road

Canada




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

OK well...this is odd.

Went to the shop this morning and saw my M parked outside. Asked him if he pushed it out and he said no, drove it out...started right up. ��.

I walked out to the car, hit the disarm button and right away hear the pump prime. Went about 9-10 seconds and stopped. Popped the hood and checked the level of SMG fluid and she was down. Started it right up. Shut it off and key on engine off, went through the gears trying to get the motor to prime pressure and sure enough it did! Checked the level, it dropped and primed back up to the full mark. Popped the cover off the salmon relay, took the relay out and turned the key on and moved the shifter lever. Cog light came on and it would not engage gear. Installed a brand new salmon relay and turned the key on...pump primed and cog light went out. Scanned for codes and 3 transmission codes came up.

Fault Code: 000015
Fault Explanation: riving hydraulic pump relay
Fault Code: 000002
Fault Explanation: :Solenoid Shift Lock / Solenoid valve Shift lock /
Printing plates EDS 2
Fault Code: 000038
Fault Explanation: :hydraulic pressure / symptom GLUE / Duty
hydraulic unit

Cleared the codes, went for a drive...drove beautifully, came back, parked it, scanned for codes and nothing ��

What the hell is going on?
Jump to top fastsoup is online now   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Register now and remove these ads
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 05:16:09 PM   #42
Texaz3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,898
Reputation: 0 Texaz3 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

Did you add the fluid?
__________________
“Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.” - Enzo Ferrari
Jump to top Texaz3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 05:32:06 PM   #43
fastsoup
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 190
Reputation: 0 fastsoup is on a distinguished road

Canada




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaz3 View Post
Did you add the fluid?

No! It was right at the top of the resovoir when I towed it. Perfect level today
Jump to top fastsoup is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 06:06:23 PM   #44
Aeko
Registered User
 
Aeko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 140
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Aeko is on a distinguished road
Location: Houston

United States




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

Hmmmmm. Weirdness with codes and disappearing intermittent symptoms leads me to think you need to work backwards and look at grounding issues, or other electrical problems.
__________________


If you wanna make REAL donuts, run Crisco in your diff.
Jump to top Aeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 06:47:51 PM   #45
fastsoup
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 190
Reputation: 0 fastsoup is on a distinguished road

Canada




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aeko View Post
Hmmmmm. Weirdness with codes and disappearing intermittent symptoms leads me to think you need to work backwards and look at grounding issues, or other electrical problems.
Really? 6 years I've owned it...nothing done to the electrical system recently...battery always put on tender during off season.

You don't think it could be the SMG motor? Maybe it's on its way out? I was thinking of buying that foxwell scanner and doing a pressure test etc.
Jump to top fastsoup is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 07:22:15 PM   #46
fastsoup
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 190
Reputation: 0 fastsoup is on a distinguished road

Canada




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SMG cog light View Post
The pressure accumulator test can be done on a hand held bwm specific scan tool like the foxwell NT510 ($170 amazon) or the schwaben scanner (identical to foxwell NT510, just different name)

I can give you a DIY to do the accumulator test if you buy the foxwell scanner. Or you can search the forums i believe someone posted a DIY of how to bled the smg pump with the schwaben scanner.

The burkhart kit https://burkhart-engineering.com/54160en

I purchased back then was $450 not $1200. The kit from the burhart website is only $500-$600. The kit comes with a new temp sensor, electric motor, high performance grease, thicker fluid.

There is a USA re-seller named bluntech that sells burkhart products in USA.
https://www.blunttech.com/products/13219506

There are 2 ways to install the pump motor. I did both ways. You can do it on jack stands with driver wheel removed. There is several videos on youtube showing how.

E46 M3 SMG Motor Swap DIY - YouTube

Burkhart Engineering replacing the electric motor SMG 2 BMW E46 M3 S54 CSL instruction DIY HD - YouTube

The other way which I recommend is to remove the intake manifold plenum and then remove the entire pump so you can change the parts on a bench. This method however requires you to bleed the system of air since you will be opening the hydraulic lines. This is where your mechanic autoenginuity, gt1, DIS, or whatever program they use to bled the smg pump. I used my foxwell scanner to do this bleeding processes. I also did the smg transmission adaptation, clutch curve reset, clutch bite point calibration, after the bleed on this same scanner.

You can do it yourself or have your mechanic do it. I can write down the DIY tutorial step by step for you or for your mechanic if you need more help.


So the schwaben scan tool is far cheaper than the foxwell. Are you certain it can do the same thing? Which model # is the one I want?

Thanks
Jump to top fastsoup is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 07:29:08 PM   #47
Texaz3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 1,898
Reputation: 0 Texaz3 is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

If you have a Windows laptop, just get ODBII cable and install INPA or something similar to do all the testing.
__________________
“Aerodynamics are for people who can't build engines.” - Enzo Ferrari
Jump to top Texaz3 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 07:29:10 PM   #48
Aeko
Registered User
 
Aeko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 140
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Aeko is on a distinguished road
Location: Houston

United States




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fastsoup View Post
Really? 6 years I've owned it...nothing done to the electrical system recently...battery always put on tender during off season.

You don't think it could be the SMG motor? Maybe it's on its way out? I was thinking of buying that foxwell scanner and doing a pressure test etc.
Doing tests is a better place to start than just replacing stuff, the foxwell / schwaben tool will get you a LOT of useful information for SMG troubleshooting.

As far as the codes, they all seem to indicate something different as far as symptoms. That's why my suggestion was to work backwards and look at what they could all have in common: Bad grounds or other electrical issues. Doesn't matter if you've owned it for 6 years, it's still almost a 20 year old car. Grounds coming loose is a general problem with older cars. Plus, diagnosing these issues generally does not require special tools other than a multi meter and a few hours of your time.

That being said, those codes relate to a possible salmon relay issue, shift level lockout solenoid, and SMG pump motor issue respectively. Replacing the pump motor when it seems to work, even intermittently, is jumping the gun at this point. You need more results to verify the motor is bad since you are still getting it to work periodically. Here's a good reference on the codes from Burkhart:

https://burkhart-engineering.com/epa...gories/SMGWiki

__________________


If you wanna make REAL donuts, run Crisco in your diff.
Jump to top Aeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 07:30:04 PM   #49
Aeko
Registered User
 
Aeko's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 140
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 Aeko is on a distinguished road
Location: Houston

United States




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texaz3 View Post
If you have a Windows laptop, just get ODBII cable and install INPA or something similar to do all the testing.
Or this. At the risk of beating this to death (as I've done lately): just use INPA.
__________________


If you wanna make REAL donuts, run Crisco in your diff.
Jump to top Aeko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Mon, Apr-29-2019, 07:47:16 PM   #50
SMG cog light
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 146
In the garage:
Reputation: 0 SMG cog light is on a distinguished road

United States




Default Re: I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not.

The smg electrical motor will ALWAYS fail on SMG equipped m3's. It's a matter of when. The #1 reason why the motor will eventually burn out or fail is because people are not aware of their accumulator pressures. I recommend testing your smg pressure accumulator at least every 3 months, if not more often. Your smg pump will still work with a defective or bad accumulator! But at the cost of your motor prematurely dying. if you are getting the error code: 56 (0x38) Switching-on time of hydraulic unit or error code: 55 (0x37) Switching-on frequency of hydraulic unit ; then that is one of the signs your motor is being over worked and will eventually die.

WHY? Because the nitrogen gas that comes pre-charged inside the tank will eventually either dissipate, seals leak and mix with hydraulic fluid, or just go bad over time. When you go buy a brand new accumulator there is an expiration date on this inventory part. There is an expiration date on it for a reason. Even if it is brand new, it has been sitting on the shelf waiting to be purchased; it will naturally lose it's charge over the years. And if it exceeds the expiration date, the supplier isn't supposed to sell it to you. Now, if your car is almost 20 years old, then think what the pressure inside your accumulator will look like. A brand new accumulator will have a charge of up to 41 psi. Any lower than that and you can get an idea of how old or abused you accumulator is. Once is goes below 29 psi, the accumulator is no longer effective or working properly.

This is when your motor starts to get over worked because it has to come on more often than normal and will almost continuously stay on to make enough pressure for gear shifts. And when the motor comes on, it makes the hydraulic fluid hotter. There is a hydraulic pressure sensor and a hydraulic fluid temp. sensor on the aluminum block of the the smg pump. When the hydraulic fluid gets too hot, it will trigger the safety limp mode and thus the reason why you get kicked into neutral. When the fluid cools or when the pump is able to build up enough pressure, then you can shift gears again. Then it keeps doing this over and over until eventually you wont be able to shift at all, until you let the car cool down for a few hours.

And because the motor is being used more often, that means your commutator is being prematurely worn out by the brushes inside the motor. You can open the motor and clean it; do a resistor mod; do a smg pump relocation or other band aid fixes, but to do the proper fix, is to make sure your pump is in great condition by testing all solenoids, replacing bad sensors and seals, and replacing worn parts like accumulator and motor. Only then will your smg pump run like new. I've already reconditioned 3 smg pumps and might do a DIY on how to completely overhaul your smg pump if requested.

The accumulator acts as back up pressure or a reserve tank that stores pressure that the motor builds up. It stores enough pressure for 5 gear shifts before the motor needs to prime and build up more pressure. If your accumulator cannot store the pressure, guess what happens? Your smg pump motor will work non stop and this is why you get the code error hydraulic motor continuous on time. Your motor will eventually fail.

For this reason, you must check accumulator pressure often.

Yes the Foxtwell NT510 will work, yes the schwaben will work. They are identical. I purchased the foxwell because it's cheaper in the USA than the schwaben. If the schwaben is cheaper for you, then go for it. I like these scanners because they are easy to use, portable and fast. I dont have to lug a big laptop around or do other things. All i do is connect the tool to the OBD2 port and use the handheld on screen menu options. Highly recommended. Another pro to this is that you can drive and have this small hand held device on your lap or instrument cluster and view hydraulic pressure and data in real time while driving. Much harder to do with a laptop.

Last edited by SMG cog light; Mon, Apr-29-2019 at 09:04:53 PM.
Jump to top SMG cog light is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT. The time now is 12:56:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
M3Forum.com and M3forum.net is in no way sponsored, endorsed or affiliated by or with BMW NA / BMW AG or any of it's subsidiaries or vendors.
BMW and M3 (E90 M3 | E92 M3 | E93 M3 | E46 M3 | E36 M3 | E30 M3) are registered trademarks of BMW AG.
M3Forum Terms of Service
Copyright ©1999-2017 M3Forum.com
Discussing I think it's the SMG pump...hopefully not. in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)