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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 03:09:18 PM   #31
EricSMG
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

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Originally Posted by M3_Ed View Post
IMO, I hated the stock staggered setup in autox, under-steered like mad mid corner then would break into snap over-steer. Was a bit better after I put 15mm spacers up front (looked a bit goofy) but still under-steer and ate tire shoulders. Moved to a 9.5" square setup and it was much better, car is completely neutral now.

I would probably still have my 67's if one of them didn't crack. But I agree, on the street the 18's were great, if you're hitting their limit on the streets you're probably driving recklessly.
Yes, it understeers during autoX but it's still fast and fun. There's no point in modifying an street car so that it understeers less on the autoX course, in my opinion. You gain nothing. A better driver will still smoke you with his staggered setup If you're routinely placing 1st and 2nd in BMW CCA M-stock with a staggered setup why jack with it, eh?

Now, if you're going to swap wheels and tires for autoX and then back to your staggered setup for street use then yes, I can see the point.

But if you're not going to have two wheel/tire sets and just want a fun, crisp, easy to drive street car that you can drive to the AutoX course and have fun in .... the stock setup works extremely well. I've (almost) never swapped for AutoX and always had a blast.
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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 05:42:42 PM   #32
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

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no spacers, just lowered on Eibachs , I think it looks pretty good, I had spacers before, but I found that not running spacers will make the flared arches look even better, especially when lowered. When I had spacers, I used to feel like it needed more "shoulder" area. I felt a massive difference when I put 18s back on, it took me a a couple of days to warm up to them look wise. Then I got a glimpse of it in a shop window while passing by it. I thought oh look an M3, for like a fraction of a second, ... Then I realized it looks proper and just right! Also its like being in sport mode all the time, gotta love the response If you like to fill up those arches with rubber, then go with 45/40 it'll fill up nicely, imho 35/30 looks better on a lowered car.
What the hell was wrong with me, i meant 40/35 , as in 225/40 and 255/35 i was on strong antibiotics sorry bro
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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 06:34:07 PM   #33
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

FWIW, if you do nothing but daily, yes, stock spec is fine, but I highly disagree that they are adequate for autox, or any hpde. The understeer destroys what this car is all about. The only staggered setups I've enjoyed aka found to be exciting, was 245/265 and 2675/275. When I ran the 219m wheels the stock e9xm3 spec sizes were ideal.

With the 245 you have a comfortable front end bite with the 265 keeping the balance slightly catered to understeer. I highly recommend trying this setup and giving their feedback.

It was a setup I tracked on and enjoyed just as much as my 265 square setup.

I think running anything higher on the style 67's is pushing the tires sides too much with them only being 8/9.


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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 06:56:34 PM   #34
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

Meh, I've tried the 245 fronts on stock 8" wheels with no other changes and it still understeers BADLY if you push too hard. You guys give the wider tire/skinny wheel way too much credit. These cars suck at doing u-turns in parking lots without lots of camber and lots of wheel/tire so why waste your time on marginal changes? Either go big or don't mess with it.... is my point.
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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 07:03:17 PM   #35
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

Just for reference, tires brand/compound have a large impact on the understeer. I've found more grip with the spec sizes in a proper tire for the 46m (pss/rs3, ect) than with say a ventusv12 in wider sizes.

I don't know about u-turns in parking lots, so I can't comment on that..


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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 07:10:24 PM   #36
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

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Originally Posted by Chas3n View Post
Just for reference, tires brand/compound have a large impact on the understeer. I've found more grip with the spec sizes in a proper tire for the 46m (pss/rs3, ect) than with say a ventusv12 in wider sizes.

I don't know about u-turns in parking lots, so I can't comment on that..


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Totally - a 225 PSS will blow the doors off of a 245 V12.... I almost typed that in my last response.

Regarding U-turns: that's what most autoX courses are and nothing you do without getting extreme will make a big, wide heavy car like these not understeer. Simply adding 20mm of front tire width on the skinny 8" wheel is a marginal change.

Here in SD we have a very long (over 1 mile) and very fast (upwards of 90mph) autoX course and so a bone stock E46 M3 is a hell of a hoot. Yes, you can modify it so it's faster but to what end?
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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 07:15:15 PM   #37
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

Okay I see your point, which is a proper alignment for a autoX is needed more, over wider tire track. I can't comment too much, but I can somewhat agree that autox is more about using the alignment aggressively, and at the slower speeds wider won't make a large difference.

That said, I'm not a fan of parking lots for getting my speed kicks. I will say I find it hard to believe the car understeered badly with a 245/265 setup? Although I'm not sure it's something you've tried on track in comparison to stock and 265 square.


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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 07:55:51 PM   #38
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

Four things kill the OE18s for me (though I run them every year for 4-5 months as snows):
1) WEIGHT! They're super mega heavy. It's dramatic how much lighter on it's feet and faster the car feels every spring when I strap on the light weight summer wheels (tires are lighter as well)!
2) Offsets. I hate running spacers
3) brake clearance. I hate running spacers.
4) Front wheel size: I don't like how the car drives, on the street, with the 225 front and anything else is too much for the 8" wheel. And the offset is too shit for my taste to run a rear on the front on the street. Okay on the track, where you have extra camber.


I'm surprised how many people are running a 20mm tire offsets. I did it once, when I got a set of tires for free in those sizes, and I found it pretty much underivable with DSC on. The system was always fighting me. Square rolling diameter makes DSC happy.
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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 08:52:55 PM   #39
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

My experience with the stock tire size on the stock 18s in PSS has been favorable. Likely ONLY because I run -3.2 camber up front.

Even with extreme negative camber up front the 225s are the first to go an auto-x course. I will say that steering response and pull is rather annoying on the highway at these settings. I do think, however, that if any track beginner thinks that a 225 PSS with correct camber isn't enough than they're fooling themselves. I wanted to do a square set-up, but now i'm sort of meh on the idea.

90mph on an auto-x? I'm jelly!

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Old Fri, Apr-10-2015, 09:08:42 PM   #40
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Default Re: Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's

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My experience with the stock tire size on the stock 18s in PSS has been favorable. Likely ONLY because I run -3.2 camber up front.

Even with extreme negative camber up front the 225s are the first to go an auto-x course. I will say that steering response and pull is rather annoying on the highway at these settings. I do think, however, that if any track beginner thinks that a 225 PSS with correct camber isn't enough than they're fooling themselves. I wanted to do a square set-up, but now i'm sort of meh on the idea.

90mph on an auto-x? I'm jelly!
You run -3.2 all the time (at track and street)?

I'm thinking about moving to square, which will force me to run that extreme all the time to save from rubbing issues. Some say it's bearable on the street, some say it's over sensitive (twitchy, tramlining, etc.)
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Discussing Going back to stock: OEM Style 67 18's in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)