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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sat, Sep-21-2013, 10:08:22 PM   #31
GBurns
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Originally Posted by not///Mpōrtant View Post
I had my car towed to Lang/ACF yesterday, they're going to perform some body/suspension work on it, they're cool guys. While I was there they showed me a torn down S54 they had on the bench. It had succumbed to a broken vanos tab. I couldn't believe how bad the bearings were in that engine. It definitely has me considering having the Besian kit, engine mounts, FCAB, and new bearing installed while its there.
Yeah, I heard they're great at suspension tuning. I have a few suspension mods laying around that I haven't had time to add, so I might have them sort out my suspension while it's there. Depending on your mileage I would definitely consider having them do the bearings! You might want to get a Blackstone lab report first on your oil to see how bad they are. As for the VANOS tabs, that's just something you have to look at when doing a valve adjustment - unless you have reason to check it immediately. I know the VANOS bolts also tend to shear, so there's that too. Either way, good luck my friend!

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRYDEREI View Post
Sucks to hear your motor went. I dont think you should blame yourself. I put 40k on my car when I bought it and when I checked the valves they were all still within spec. I think how a car is driven has a lot more to do with these failures than maintenance. These cars are driven year round and many people dont wait until the motor and oil is up to temp before pounding on them.

That's a lot of coin for a simple rebuild with some aftermarket components. Have you weighed the eagle rods? a wider big end = more weight and for a motor pushing the boundaries of rpm that sounds a bit scary to me. How much power are you expecting? 333 > 345-350 ?
I wouldn't call it simple.... there's a lot being done that isn't on that general list. And I'm actually buying a separate engine from him that's going into my car. I think the smaller diameter crank makes up for the weight. Andrew claims that overall it will be a lighter rotating assembly, which also means more power. I'm not really expecting a certain number, but I plan for my setup to include catless headers, lightweight pulleys, intake and a custom tune. So, it should make a good amount of power. I've been told that 320 whp on a dynojet is a conservative number to expect. We'll just have to see when it's done.

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Originally Posted by 0-60Motorsports View Post
Sorry to hear about your engine grenading but im sure Lang Racing will build you an amazing motor. Looking forward to updates.
Thanks.
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Old Sat, Sep-21-2013, 10:24:15 PM   #32
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

I've met Andrew a few times when I still had my e30 M3. He's a stand up guy and I believe an engineer by trade.

I ran w/ him once at streets of willow and his e30 m3 track car is wicked fast.
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Old Sun, Sep-22-2013, 08:12:12 PM   #33
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Originally Posted by PRYDEREI View Post
That's a lot of coin for a simple rebuild with some aftermarket components. Have you weighed the eagle rods? a wider big end = more weight and for a motor pushing the boundaries of rpm that sounds a bit scary to me.
The S54 rod with bolts weighs in at 640 grams while our rod weighs in at just 546 grams. That is a weight savings of 96 grams (14.8%) per rod and 564 grams in the rotating assembly.

I'd like to urge anyone with interest in these S54 solutions to either give me a call or send me an e-mail with their questions. It's difficult for me to keep up with things on the forums and with my work load in the shop but I will always answer my phone and my e-mails.

I am well aware that most people may not be comfortable with our base rod choice but we always offer upgrades for Carrillo rods or any other rod you'd prefer for that matter. My goal is to offer the community cost effective engine solutions that have some real thought behind them. For that reason I try to make our base kits as affordable as possible without sacrificing reliability and give people the option to upgrade it as they feel they need to.
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Old Sun, Sep-22-2013, 08:17:53 PM   #34
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Originally Posted by allmotorking View Post
I've met Andrew a few times when I still had my e30 M3. He's a stand up guy and I believe an engineer by trade.

I ran w/ him once at streets of willow and his e30 m3 track car is wicked fast.
Haven't seen you in a while! I'm working on those carbon fiber brake ducts as we speak.
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Old Mon, Sep-23-2013, 01:20:37 AM   #35
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Originally Posted by AndrewLang View Post
The S54 rod with bolts weighs in at 640 grams while our rod weighs in at just 546 grams. That is a weight savings of 96 grams (14.8%) per rod and 564 grams in the rotating assembly.

I'd like to urge anyone with interest in these S54 solutions to either give me a call or send me an e-mail with their questions. It's difficult for me to keep up with things on the forums and with my work load in the shop but I will always answer my phone and my e-mails.

I am well aware that most people may not be comfortable with our base rod choice but we always offer upgrades for Carrillo rods or any other rod you'd prefer for that matter. My goal is to offer the community cost effective engine solutions that have some real thought behind them. For that reason I try to make our base kits as affordable as possible without sacrificing reliability and give people the option to upgrade it as they feel they need to.
Which rods are the base rods eagles? Nothing wrong with eagles as long as they are within spec. Guys are making 1000whp on them. Hell I made 636whp, and 581wtq on my s50 with them. I did have an issue with getting the wrong spec rods 3 times. Then Eagle finally listened to my engine builder, and got their machines checked. Everything has been fine since(about 3-4 years ago).
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Old Mon, Sep-23-2013, 01:29:41 AM   #36
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Originally Posted by GG///M3 View Post
Which rods are the base rods eagles? Nothing wrong with eagles as long as they are within spec. Guys are making 1000whp on them. Hell I made 636whp, and 581wtq on my s50 with them. I did have an issue with getting the wrong spec rods 3 times. Then Eagle finally listened to my engine builder, and got their machines checked. Everything has been fine since(about 3-4 years ago).
This has been our general experience as well. We also have our rods balanced before we assemble anything. With Carrillo rods there is usually no need to do any balancing since their manufacturing tolerances tend to be a little tighter. In general we don't need to balance the Eagles either but we check everything before assembly anyway.
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Old Mon, Sep-23-2013, 07:21:12 PM   #37
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Originally Posted by AndrewLang View Post
This has been our general experience as well. We also have our rods balanced before we assemble anything. With Carrillo rods there is usually no need to do any balancing since their manufacturing tolerances tend to be a little tighter. In general we don't need to balance the Eagles either but we check everything before assembly anyway.
Hello Andrew, I wanted to chime in on seeing about what testing has been done on the fix? Reason I ask is you are talking about a component that if you are off even the slightest leads to a big failure.

Can you share you testing data and so on?
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Old Mon, Sep-23-2013, 08:29:48 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by m3dragon View Post
Hello Andrew, I wanted to chime in on seeing about what testing has been done on the fix? Reason I ask is you are talking about a component that if you are off even the slightest leads to a big failure.

Can you share you testing data and so on?
Can you share mechanically how such component, if slightly off, leads to a big failure? As in, if A. occurs then B. will occur. I'm not trying to be witty, I would genuinely like to know.
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Performance: Lang Racing Built Engine / (280/272) Schrick Cams / Karbonius CSL Airbox / CSL DME / TTFS Tune
/ AEM E85 High Flow Fuel Pump / Bosch Green Giant 42lb Injectors / TMS Power Pulley Kit / TTFS SMG Tune / HPF
Titanium Exhaust / TopSpeed Headers / Section 1 Rasp Pipe / Status Gruppe X-Pipe / Besian VANOS / TTFS AIT
Sensor / Lang Racing CSL CF Roof / Seibon CF Trunk Lid

Wheels & Suspension: HRE Fall-Line Motorsports Wheels / KW V2 Coilovers / GC Camber Plates / AKG Engine,
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Old Mon, Sep-23-2013, 08:43:23 PM   #39
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Hello Andrew, I wanted to chime in on seeing about what testing has been done on the fix? Reason I ask is you are talking about a component that if you are off even the slightest leads to a big failure.

Can you share you testing data and so on?
I understand your concerns. The kit is brand new and we don't have any testing reports, in reality there probably won't be any. Generating testing reports would be costly and I wouldn't be able to sell the kits at the price I want to sell them at.

The treated and coated rod bearings commonly available have been widely accepted for years, yet I haven't been able to find any true testing reports that those are improving the S54 specifically. What people are buying into is a theory posed by a reputable company that their solution in fact makes a difference.

What I'm doing is a similar thing, based on traditional engineering principles and adding rod bearing width to a crankshaft to increase load carrying capacity. I would love to have testing reports, it would make this kit even easier to sell.

As far as the idea that this kit would make an engine even more prone to failure than a stock motor, I don't see how. We take more time to assemble our engines since they are custom, we check clearance using micrometers and not plastigauge. Our tolerances are more stringent than BMW standards and the components are higher quality. If we were blindly throwing these kits into blocks without doing any research or engineering then yes, it could be more likely to fail, but we aren't.
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Old Mon, Sep-23-2013, 08:43:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3

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Can you share mechanically how such component, if slightly off, leads to a big failure? As in, if A. occurs then B. will occur. I'm not trying to be witty, I would genuinely like to know.
The crank shaft can spin up to 8000 plus RPM in our cars. That means if the machining is off or they do not offer a way to balance the crank shaft, then you could start breaking items. Think of your washing machine when it starts to hop around when the balance is off. (Yes I know wacky example but best I could think of). I am sure the machining is sound but as they are the shinny new vendor on this forum, I am curious to know more about how they came up with this solution and how they tested it.

In regards to data, I am asking is how many have been installed, how many miles have they been tested. Saying 1 and in our track car is not "real world" driving. Someone in LA, in traffic, and in the heat is more real world testing than the track. Yes we can argue abuse factors, but starting and stopping is the worst thing on a motor next to the track.

I am asking myself because I had the bearing recall done in 2003 and based on reading it was not a permanent fix. So 40,000 miles and 10 years later I should probably have them done again.
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Discussing Lang Racing "Bulletproof" S54 and E46 M3 in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)