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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 08:03:23 PM   #41
Paulo M
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

You already know the value isn’t up to par, when questions/threads like these come up. The fact that you have to ask or wonder is enough to tell you it just isn’t the same. It’s called insecurity that many swapped smg-6mt guys have. You won’t see true 6mt cars asking if their value is up to par with all else equal smg-6mt cars, doesn’t even cross our minds.

It’s no knock on them, I support this mod for the increased driving enjoyment they benefit off of it. But to even think value is even to original 6mt with all else equal,...you’re just reaching with that insecurity. Enjoy the damn car
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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 08:12:06 PM   #42
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
You might get some comments on how it shifts so much nicer than other M3s . But yeah, that would probably hurt value. My car has enough miles on it that it doesn't really matter anymore though.
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I'm in the "probably never going to be valuable" camp as well (which I likely am, TBH), and planning my modding around that. My car is stock save for an Avant II and the Besian VANOS stuff Kaiv installed (which is a fix, not a mod, as far as I'm concerned). It also has five highly desirable traits: good condition AW paint, a factory six speed, coupe, mechanically sound, and a clean CarFax. Working against it are it's year (2001), miles (111K), interior (grey), and the paint work I've had to have done to it (fixed a big scratch on a fender + repaired a damaged bumper). Future Barret-Jackson example this is not, but it's also not necessarily an undesirable example either.

I'm wondering just how much more enjoyable the car could be with a transmission swap though, value be damned, which I guess puts me on the same boat as the SMG -> manual swap people in way, no? Plus, unlike something like a CF roof, the Z4M trans seems to more or less act like a bolt on in that it goes in and comes out with no permanent modifications necessary, which means you can always go back to stock.
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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 08:18:37 PM   #43
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

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Originally Posted by Toasty View Post
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I'm in the "probably never going to be valuable" camp as well (which I likely am, TBH), and planning my modding around that. My car is stock save for an Avant II and the Besian VANOS stuff Kaiv installed (which is a fix, not a mod, as far as I'm concerned). It also has five highly desirable traits: good condition AW paint, a factory six speed, coupe, mechanically sound, and a clean CarFax. Working against it are it's year (2001), miles (111K), interior (grey), and the paint work I've had to have done to it (fixed a big scratch on a fender + repaired a damaged bumper). Future Barret-Jackson example this is not, but it's also not necessarily an undesirable example either.

I'm wondering just how much more enjoyable the car could be with a transmission swap though, value be damned, which I guess puts me on the same boat as the SMG -> manual swap people in way, no? Plus, unlike something like a CF roof, the Z4M trans seems to more or less act like a bolt on in that it goes in and comes out with no permanent modifications necessary, which means you can always go back to stock.
Just mod it how you want, our cars are cheap as hell. You have nice aw paint but grey interior and high miles kill it so who cares. Enjoy it.

I bought my car original JB on Cinn with original 6spd with just over 50k Miles in mint condition. I just got it over 100k miles and modding the crap out of it could care less about value of an old bmw that cost less than a used corolla.
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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 08:20:54 PM   #44
terraphantm
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

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Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
Just mod it how you want, our cars are cheap as hell. You have nice aw paint but grey interior and high miles kill it so who cares. Enjoy it.

I bought my car original JB on Cinn with original 6spd with just over 50k Miles in mint condition. I just got it over 100k miles and modding the crap out of it could care less about value of an old bmw that cost less than a used corolla.
For someone who doesn't care, you sure have a lot of posts in this thread

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Originally Posted by Toasty View Post
Yeah, I'm trying to figure out if I'm in the "probably never going to be valuable" camp as well (which I likely am, TBH), and planning my modding around that. My car is stock save for an Avant II and the Besian VANOS stuff Kaiv installed (which is a fix, not a mod, as far as I'm concerned). It also has five highly desirable traits: good condition AW paint, a factory six speed, coupe, mechanically sound, and a clean CarFax. Working against it are it's year (2001), miles (111K), interior (grey), and the paint work I've had to have done to it (fixed a big scratch on a fender + repaired a damaged bumper). Future Barret-Jackson example this is not, but it's also not necessarily an undesirable example either.

I'm wondering just how much more enjoyable the car could be with a transmission swap though, value be damned, which I guess puts me on the same boat as the SMG -> manual swap people in way, no? Plus, unlike something like a CF roof, the Z4M trans seems to more or less act like a bolt on in that it goes in and comes out with no permanent modifications necessary, which means you can always go back to stock.
For an 01 with 111k miles, it probably wouldn't lose much if any value honestly. You are right in that at the end of the day, it's still a BMW transmission meant for that engine and you'd be using all BMW parts. And like you said it'd be completely reversible, which should quell most other concerns. It wouldn't be "period correct" I suppose, but no one's going to give a shit about that on an 01/111k miles with minor paint work.
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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 08:23:21 PM   #45
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

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Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
For someone who doesn't care, you sure have a lot of posts in this thread
Lmao touché

It’s more the owners trying to justify their cars value. Kind of lame,...that and I’m bored.
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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 09:01:08 PM   #46
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

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Originally Posted by Paulo M View Post
Just mod it how you want, our cars are cheap as hell. You have nice aw paint but grey interior and high miles kill it so who cares. Enjoy it.

I bought my car original JB on Cinn with original 6spd with just over 50k Miles in mint condition. I just got it over 100k miles and modding the crap out of it could care less about value of an old bmw that cost less than a used corolla.
Money aside, my issue with doing mods outside of the "usuals" (IE, coilovers, SSK kits, exhaust, exct) is that I can't help but wonder if all the time and effort required to do them right is worth it vs. just moving over to a different car altogether. In my own case, I often wonder if just buying an S2000 and figuring out a way around it's impracticality as a DD would be easier than modifying an E46 M3 to excel in ways it may never be able to do without doing a Singer-level rebuild of it.

But, this car does speak to me in ways few others do, so perhaps I should put all that worry aside and just go for it. Perhaps not custom Alcantara interior in bright orange + S85 swap levels of "go for it" (no matter how cool that might be), but start changing the things about the 46M that really hold it back from being the unquestionable GOAT M3 that many people claim it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by terraphantm View Post
For an 01 with 111k miles, it probably wouldn't lose much if any value honestly. You are right in that at the end of the day, it's still a BMW transmission meant for that engine and you'd be using all BMW parts. And like you said it'd be completely reversible, which should quell most other concerns. It wouldn't be "period correct" I suppose, but no one's going to give a shit about that on an 01/111k miles with minor paint work.
Hmmm... valid points. Now the question is, for a car with a stock six speed, what is the better approach to shifting nirvana from a cost + complexity standpoint: full 0% AS SSK plus replacing all worn factory components, or seeing if I can convince Kaiv to stick a Z4M transmission into my car?

TBH, if I could dial in the transmission, steering, suspension, and engine noises (exhaust and/or intake) on this car to be exactly where I want them, I feel like I could forgive a ton of my other issues with the car and get it pretty damn close to being my ideal BMW.
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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 09:45:35 PM   #47
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

This thread is starting to resemble a political argument.

The very first reply should've ended the thread. There is nothing controversial about the truth that:

- a properly swapped car is worth more than an SMG... possibly, if marketed correctly and in a desirable option/color combo, even more than the cost of SMG+parts+labor of a swap

- a factory 6MT is worth more than a swapped 6MT, no matter how well done.

There's more demand in the secondary market for these 15 year old cars for 6MT than there is for SMG. There's also more demand for factory 6MT than swapped 6MT, because no matter what, there are people for whom modifications of ANY KIND are a dealbreaker.

So by swapping you limit your market vs factory. But you still expand it beyond SMG-only.

There's nothing at all controversial about this statement. And I've seen it time and again.

Also, I own two swapped cars. One I'll keep, and one I'll sell. When the time comes, will my sub-50k mile, mint, Beisan and subframe-d slicktop Interlagos ZCP fetch the same $50k a comparable quality factory 6MT will fetch from EAG? OF COURSE NOT.

But the amount I'll get for it still greatly exceeds what I'd get for it in SMG form. There is nothing controversial or fuzzy math-y about that statement. I'm not sure why there's so much back and forth.
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Old Sun, Feb-18-2018, 10:20:36 PM   #48
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave B View Post
This thread is starting to resemble a political argument.

The very first reply should've ended the thread. There is nothing controversial about the truth that:

- a properly swapped car is worth more than an SMG... possibly, if marketed correctly and in a desirable option/color combo, even more than the cost of SMG+parts+labor of a swap

- a factory 6MT is worth more than a swapped 6MT, no matter how well done.

There's more demand in the secondary market for these 15 year old cars for 6MT than there is for SMG. There's also more demand for factory 6MT than swapped 6MT, because no matter what, there are people for whom modifications of ANY KIND are a dealbreaker.

So by swapping you limit your market vs factory. But you still expand it beyond SMG-only.

There's nothing at all controversial about this statement. And I've seen it time and again.

Also, I own two swapped cars. One I'll keep, and one I'll sell. When the time comes, will my sub-50k mile, mint, Beisan and subframe-d slicktop Interlagos ZCP fetch the same $50k a comparable quality factory 6MT will fetch from EAG? OF COURSE NOT.

But the amount I'll get for it still greatly exceeds what I'd get for it in SMG form. There is nothing controversial or fuzzy math-y about that statement. I'm not sure why there's so much back and forth.


From start to finish, I agree with Dave’s post.

Often I do wonder if kaiv ruined the value some for my car. But if he hadn’t switched it, I truly wouldn’t of bought it in the first place.
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Old Mon, Feb-19-2018, 02:14:20 AM   #49
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

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Often I do wonder if kaiv ruined the value some for my car.
I can't say with certainty, as i don't know what you paid, but having seen your car's ads each time it has been for sale since 2010, I'm almost positive that you paid substantially more to buy it from him at 43k-ish (or whatever) miles than he did a hard driven year prior.

Obviously that premium also included other exceptionally well documented maintenance. But still, it's a pretty clear example of the fact that SMG-6MT did not in any way hurt that car's value.

Funny story: In 2010 when I was shopping for my first M, the one in my avatar... yours was for sale at an absolute steal of a price, including matched Porsche Gt3 seats. I was drooling over it, even as a non-fan of the HRE 546s, and ready to pull the trigger. My ex-wife, for all her faults, refused to even consider the idea of SMG, even temporarily.
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Old Mon, Feb-19-2018, 02:23:21 AM   #50
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Default Re: Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase?

This topic pops up like once a year!

It's pretty simple: if you take two otherwise identical cars, the (properly*) converted car will be worth more than the original SMG car. SMG cars take a huge hit. Compared to both, an original 6MT will still be worth more.

So,

original 6MT car > converted 6MT car >>>> SMG car


*Emphasis on properly: Ive seen cars that were "converted" and had no shift detents whatsoever, you literally have to guess gears then there's the ones that are missing parts, the ones that are not wired or coded/programmed. Not to mention the installers that reuse things like seals and bearings to presumably save a few bucks.
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Discussing Smg to 6mt??? Hurt or increase? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)