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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sun, Dec-03-2017, 03:40:19 AM   #11
cwlo
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

Qualicas- fyi the 318 with only half a thrust bearing is how they came from the factory. Its a known weakness. Did they have a reason for this, or bean counter influence...don't know.
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Old Sun, Dec-03-2017, 03:57:02 AM   #12
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

Go with what you know to be right on the timing.
Sounds like this is NOT your first roundup!
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Old Sun, Dec-03-2017, 03:58:13 AM   #13
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

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Originally Posted by qualicas View Post
Again I am very aware of the slot length. I just finished putting the splines into the hubs. Everything is correct. The factory or someone put the spline shaft in wrong. The whole point of the thread.

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Apologies if i'm misinterpreting what you've explained, but it just doesn't make sense. What do you mean by slot length? The slots don't move once the hub is locked down.

Correct insertion of the splined shafts only governs the movement range of the Vanos. Cam timing is set when the cams are aligned with the bridge and hubs are bolted/locked down. Vanos pistons should be in the full retracted/retarded state at that point. You said the cam was at 1 o'clock and the splined shaft still inset. You simply didn't retard the cam fully. There's nothing else stopping the splines/pistons from fully retracting from the hub as you turn the cam other than the Vanos unit itself. Perhaps you had locked oil pressure in there.
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Old Sun, Dec-03-2017, 06:06:18 AM   #14
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

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Originally Posted by cwlo View Post
Qualicas- fyi the 318 with only half a thrust bearing is how they came from the factory. Its a known weakness. Did they have a reason for this, or bean counter influence...don't know.
NOW THAT IS SOMETHING I DID NOT KNOW! I can't believe someone with ANY mechanical ability or knowledge would have let that go. Although knowing BMW and some of the stuff they do to save a penny probably true.
Thank you!
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Old Sun, Dec-03-2017, 06:18:41 AM   #15
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

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Originally Posted by paulclaude View Post
Apologies if i'm misinterpreting what you've explained, but it just doesn't make sense. What do you mean by slot length? The slots don't move once the hub is locked down.

Correct insertion of the splined shafts only governs the movement range of the Vanos. Cam timing is set when the cams are aligned with the bridge and hubs are bolted/locked down. Vanos pistons should be in the full retracted/retarded state at that point. You said the cam was at 1 o'clock and the splined shaft still inset. You simply didn't retard the cam fully. There's nothing else stopping the splines/pistons from fully retracting from the hub as you turn the cam other than the Vanos unit itself. Perhaps you had locked oil pressure in there.
Okay once more. You will notice that there are slots in the chain spockets, hub bolts go through the slots to the backing disks. When you move the hub all the way to the end of the slot, then you install the spline. I was able to get the spline to engage just at that point. Then when you slide the spline all the way in it rotates the hub until just about reaching the end of the sprocket slot. If you do NOT engage the spline as soon as possible, then the hub motion will be limited by the end of the slot and cam advance will be limited.
What I have been saying is that as found, the exhaust spline was already 10.3mm into the hub when the exhaust cam was fully retarded. IE cam hole vertical and locked with bridge. So that would have limited the cam advancing as well.
ie factory spline installed was doing this with a hangover, or chatting up some hot young thing at the next station. How the heck do I know. Maybe a new person, first shift?
This is the 3rd vanos I have done and looks like I will be doing another for a friend soon.
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Old Sun, Dec-03-2017, 06:47:37 AM   #16
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

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Okay once more. You will notice that there are slots in the chain spockets, hub bolts go through the slots to the backing disks. When you move the hub all the way to the end of the slot, then you install the spline. I was able to get the spline to engage just at that point. Then when you slide the spline all the way in it rotates the hub until just about reaching the end of the sprocket slot. If you do NOT engage the spline as soon as possible, then the hub motion will be limited by the end of the slot and cam advance will be limited.
What I have been saying is that as found, the exhaust spline was already 10.3mm into the hub when the exhaust cam was fully retarded. IE cam hole vertical and locked with bridge. So that would have limited the cam advancing as well.
ie factory spline installed was doing this with a hangover, or chatting up some hot young thing at the next station. How the heck do I know. Maybe a new person, first shift?
This is the 3rd vanos I have done and looks like I will be doing another for a friend soon.
Ok, that makes more sense. So the cam was aligning with the bridge. I misinterpreted your explanation of the issue, as in the first post as you said;

Quote:
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However the exhaust cam hole was at about 1 o'clock position. I wrenched it back and it it still was off.


The requirement of inserting the splines with the hubs fully CCW is to allow the splined assembly to move into the vanos 'fully retarded' position before setting the cams with the bridge and bolting down the hubs. Once locked, there is no movement via the slots, so as long as the splines reach full retard when setting it doesn't matter what position the slots are in. Cam movement during operation is governed by the vanos pistons overcoming friction of the diaphragm springs.
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Last edited by paulclaude; Sun, Dec-03-2017 at 07:17:10 AM.
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Old Thu, Dec-07-2017, 05:12:34 AM   #17
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

Your not alone. I just did an 02 with 114k on it. The exhaust once fully retarded by the wrench was off. If the hole is correct at 12 o’clock, the hole was positioned at 1 o’clock. Owner said car had no issues. Even the exhaust hub was intact.


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Old Thu, Dec-07-2017, 06:10:20 AM   #18
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

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Your not alone. I just did an 02 with 114k on it. The exhaust once fully retarded by the wrench was off. If the hole is correct at 12 o’clock, the hole was positioned at 1 o’clock. Owner said car had no issues. Even the exhaust hub was intact.


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Yep, that is how mine was as well. Correctly adjusted now. Be a while before I fire it up. Thanks for posting,
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Old Thu, Dec-07-2017, 07:52:55 AM   #19
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Default Re: Factory cam timing off?

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Yep, that is how mine was as well. Correctly adjusted now. Be a while before I fire it up. Thanks for posting,


I was baffled. I actually pulled the Vanos End Caps to verify the pistons were retracted. They were. Still a mystery to me.


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Discussing Factory cam timing off? in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)