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E46 M3 (2001-2006) Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006.


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Old Sat, Sep-01-2018, 09:03:32 PM   #11
Race M3
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after.

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Old Sat, Sep-01-2018, 09:20:44 PM   #12
mrgizmo04
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after. DME faults

Have you tried a cold compression test? Some extra/unburnt fuel is getting into the oil.

Does the dipstick smell like gas as well as under the oil filler cap?

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'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.

Happy to help with VANOS or any other DIY job around NorCal
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Old Mon, Oct-08-2018, 12:43:54 AM   #13
Race M3
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after.

bump. been in germany in september so didnt have time to work on the car until the last week of the month so a bit of delay here now that im back in the states...

(people suck at driving here in the states, autobahn is a gift from god himself we need it here....but enough of that now for updates on this)

so i hooked up a fuel gauge, and fuel pressure was around 70psi but intermittently would leak down 5-10 psi or wouldnt leak down at all within about 5 to 10 minutes. with vehicle running needle kept a steady and would increase 10 psi or so when hitting the gas indicating fuel pressure regulator seems to be good.

after sending off all injectors for flow testing and cleaning and refurbish shop got back to me notifying with the following results;

tested at 3 bar

pre cleaning post cleaning

cylinder 1 284cc 285cc
cylinder 2 284cc 285cc
cylinder 3 272cc 272cc
cylinder 4 284cc 284cc
cylinder 5 282cc 281cc
cylinder 6 280cc 284cc

average 281cc 282cc

high flow 284 286
low flow 272 272
range 12 14
deviation 4.28% 4.72%


so essentially fuel injector 3 had lower flow of about 9.5% deviation over all others and remained at low flow post cleaning which suggests a faulty injector.

shop told me that the reason i may be smelling oil in gas is o2 sensors are detecting excess oxygen from cylinder 3 and overcompensating by running rich on all cylinders which could be whats causing part of my fuel in oil smell issue and lack of power i have at times.

also said could be a crank sensor on its way out when cold starting and washing the cylinders when im having the hard starting.

shop told me no injectors were leaking at time of test and tested multiple times at 3 to 5 bar and no leaks found before or after.

i bought a gb reman fuel injector off fcp euro that i will be sending them to have flow tested so fingers crossed its around the same flow as the rest...



so do you think the deviation in flow on cylinder 3 could be whats causing my issues or is the flow difference not enough to really cause this issues/rich condition.

exhaust tips have black soot in them and have heavy soot for some time and happens pretty quickly after cleaning and exhaust smells catless even after its been warmed up and run for a while. still have my cats and only mods to exhaust is status gruppe rasp pipe, stock h pipe and status gruppe muffler as well as a drop in k&n panel filter in stock airbox. no tune.


thoughts?
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Old Wed, Oct-10-2018, 08:00:18 AM   #14
mrgizmo04
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Race M3 View Post
bump. been in germany in september so didnt have time to work on the car until the last week of the month so a bit of delay here now that im back in the states...

(people suck at driving here in the states, autobahn is a gift from god himself we need it here....but enough of that now for updates on this)

so i hooked up a fuel gauge, and fuel pressure was around 70psi but intermittently would leak down 5-10 psi or wouldnt leak down at all within about 5 to 10 minutes. with vehicle running needle kept a steady and would increase 10 psi or so when hitting the gas indicating fuel pressure regulator seems to be good.

after sending off all injectors for flow testing and cleaning and refurbish shop got back to me notifying with the following results;

tested at 3 bar

pre cleaning post cleaning

cylinder 1 284cc 285cc
cylinder 2 284cc 285cc
cylinder 3 272cc 272cc
cylinder 4 284cc 284cc
cylinder 5 282cc 281cc
cylinder 6 280cc 284cc

average 281cc 282cc

high flow 284 286
low flow 272 272
range 12 14
deviation 4.28% 4.72%


so essentially fuel injector 3 had lower flow of about 9.5% deviation over all others and remained at low flow post cleaning which suggests a faulty injector.

shop told me that the reason i may be smelling oil in gas is o2 sensors are detecting excess oxygen from cylinder 3 and overcompensating by running rich on all cylinders which could be whats causing part of my fuel in oil smell issue and lack of power i have at times.

also said could be a crank sensor on its way out when cold starting and washing the cylinders when im having the hard starting.

shop told me no injectors were leaking at time of test and tested multiple times at 3 to 5 bar and no leaks found before or after.

i bought a gb reman fuel injector off fcp euro that i will be sending them to have flow tested so fingers crossed its around the same flow as the rest...



so do you think the deviation in flow on cylinder 3 could be whats causing my issues or is the flow difference not enough to really cause this issues/rich condition.

exhaust tips have black soot in them and have heavy soot for some time and happens pretty quickly after cleaning and exhaust smells catless even after its been warmed up and run for a while. still have my cats and only mods to exhaust is status gruppe rasp pipe, stock h pipe and status gruppe muffler as well as a drop in k&n panel filter in stock airbox. no tune.


thoughts?
Not too familiar with injector flow rates to tell you what % deviation will cause issues. Maybe the guys who did the flow testing and cleaning could advise?

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__________________
'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.

Happy to help with VANOS or any other DIY job around NorCal
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Old Tue, Oct-23-2018, 02:56:31 AM   #15
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after.

Update. Replaced fuel injector 3 and all have been cleaned, new filters/seals and flow matched at 1.1% deviation across all 6. Great.

Installed them and a new crank position sensor. And now it has a 3-4 second crank and then fires up and runs as if nothing is wrong.

So far new items installed-

-both throttle position sensors (was getting faults for them) hasn’t returned
-crank sensor (was codes for it, so I replaced it) faults haven’t returned yet
-starter (actually failed) works fine now
-both coolant temp sensors (did the block one while I was in there)
-new upper timing chain guide
-vanos seals
-exhaust hub
-rod bearings
-valve adjustment
-new battery
-rebuilt and cleaned fuel injectors (replaced #3 and flow matched)
-new fuel filter


Now I have an s54 with a long crank and runs better once it’s going than ever. Fuel economy is awesome and pulls like hell now, idle is so smooth I could probly balance a quarter on its side on the plenum while running, quietest it’s ever run too.


But yet I still have this damned long crank! I’m about to give up on this thing...fuel injectors aren’t leaking as when I had them rebuilt they said they weren’t leaking even before cleaning... oil still smells like gas but not as bad after changing it, but with the long cranks probly will continue to wash the cylinders and get worse...

So. What do?
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Old Tue, Oct-23-2018, 03:09:49 AM   #16
mrgizmo04
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Race M3 View Post
Update. Replaced fuel injector 3 and all have been cleaned, new filters/seals and flow matched at 1.1% deviation across all 6. Great.

Installed them and a new crank position sensor. And now it has a 3-4 second crank and then fires up and runs as if nothing is wrong.

So far new items installed-

-both throttle position sensors (was getting faults for them) hasnít returned
-crank sensor (was codes for it, so I replaced it) faults havenít returned yet
-starter (actually failed) works fine now
-both coolant temp sensors (did the block one while I was in there)
-new upper timing chain guide
-vanos seals
-exhaust hub
-rod bearings
-valve adjustment
-new battery
-rebuilt and cleaned fuel injectors (replaced #3 and flow matched)
-new fuel filter


Now I have an s54 with a long crank and runs better once itís going than ever. Fuel economy is awesome and pulls like hell now, idle is so smooth I could probly balance a quarter on its side on the plenum while running, quietest itís ever run too.


But yet I still have this damned long crank! Iím about to give up on this thing...fuel injectors arenít leaking as when I had them rebuilt they said they werenít leaking even before cleaning... oil still smells like gas but not as bad after changing it, but with the long cranks probly will continue to wash the cylinders and get worse...

So. What do?
I didn't reread the thread, but how old is the fuel pump?

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'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.

Happy to help with VANOS or any other DIY job around NorCal
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Old Tue, Oct-23-2018, 03:10:55 AM   #17
mrgizmo04
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after. DME faults

Also, spark plugs/coils?

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'85 528e 164k miles (sold)
'05 M3 6MT coupe

All DIY: 330 ZHP steering rack, diffsonline 4.1 diff with rem polish, E60 short shifter lever, AKG black diff bushings/subframe bushings, Rogue rtab, WPC rod bearings, Beyer driveshaft, full SS (SS stepped V1, catted S1, resonated S2, SS sport), Sachs clutch/flywheel, rear main, VANOS bullet proofing with anti-rattle, valve adjustment, cooling refresh, Ohlins R&T/Swift 448f 672r/GC street tops and camber plates, AFD E85 Proflex kit.

Happy to help with VANOS or any other DIY job around NorCal
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Old Tue, Oct-23-2018, 03:36:50 AM   #18
Race M3
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after. DME faults

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgizmo04 View Post
Also, spark plugs/coils?

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Spark plugs were replaced maybe 4K miles ago when I did the vanos...no misfire codes too..coils were replaced under warranty at one point...idk lol

It’s insane just how good it runs now. Just won’t start worth a damn. But does start first try now albeit a long crank but it’s some improvement, right? Haha
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Old Tue, Oct-23-2018, 03:42:52 AM   #19
Race M3
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after.

Fuel pump was replaced back in 2014, doubt it would fail so soon. Genuine BMW unit.

But I’ve been wrong before..

Last edited by Race M3; Tue, Oct-23-2018 at 04:37:20 AM.
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Old Tue, Oct-23-2018, 02:54:39 PM   #20
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Default Re: Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after. DME faults

Condition and age of battery? Every fault listed is provided power via the DME relay. Insufficient power to the relay will cause a delay. Relay may also be failing.
I suggest...
checking/testing battery
Testing fuel pressure at the rail AFTER car has sat overnight with gauge connected.

When was fuel filter replaced last? Age? Mileage?


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Discussing Need help, hard start when vehicle warm runs flawlessly after. in the E46 M3 (2001-2006) Forum - Engine: S54 - Max Hp: 333 hp at 7,900 rpm / 262 lb/ft at 4,900 rpm
Total Produced: 45,000+ - Years Produced: 2001 to 2006. at BMW M3 Forum.com (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)