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-   -   re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone? (http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=606714)

Mindart Thu, Apr-11-2019 06:05:21 PM

re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
1 Attachment(s)
Hey all,

Just curious to get you opinion of what I should with my seats?

the current state of them isn't too bad.... i am still not sure what my goal is with this car if i'll keep it long term or let it go eventually.

Looks like doing a proper re dye- strip, condition, crack fill, dye then top coat would probably cost me little in materials, but would likely take 8+ hours for the two fronts to do a proper job.

New skins cost anywhere from 299 ( lseat.com ) to 1600 bucks from GaHH. and that is not including labor if I decide to sub out that work.

anyways... what would you do with these if they were you starting point?

Steve M3 Thu, Apr-11-2019 07:03:48 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I would dye those seats as they still look pretty nice in the photo.

Mindart Thu, Apr-11-2019 07:13:38 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
yeah... structurally they are fine, but do have some deeper cracks.... they have been dyed before ..... needless to say the job was less than stellar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve M3 (Post 1067944880)
I would dye those seats as they still look pretty nice in the photo.


Braymond141 Thu, Apr-11-2019 07:24:35 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I would degrease the heck out of them first. A thorough clean will reveal the true condition and then go from there. Avoid any greasy “rejuvenators”.

egebhardt Thu, Apr-11-2019 07:26:19 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Howdy Braymond!

GAAH leather is not my favorite. I don't care if they cost more. The problem is GAAH leather is too thick and cracks when it gets dry.
AutoBerry.com is the best replacement leather as far as fit, texture and cost for $800. Dave knows his business well. OEM remains the best if you can find nice ones.

Re-painting the leather is hardly beneficial. The days of dye are long gone. It's all paint nowadays and has been for a long time.

If I were you, I'd swap the cushions, left to right. Then be on the hunt for a used set. Look for good passenger cushions in the future because they are often the best but finding nice leather is getting harder for obvious reasons.

Texaz3 Thu, Apr-11-2019 07:35:31 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Through cleaning, filling in the cracks, and re-painting these won't be too hard. Couple of days worth of work, and they are like new.

Braymond141 Thu, Apr-11-2019 07:40:11 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by egebhardt (Post 1067944897)
Howdy Braymond!

GAAH leather is not my favorite. I don't care if they cost more. The problem is GAAH leather is too thick and cracks when it gets dry.
AutoBerry.com is the best replacement leather as far as fit, texture and cost for $800. Dave knows his business well. OEM remains the best if you can find nice ones.

Re-painting the leather is hardly beneficial. The days of dye are long gone. It's all paint nowadays and has been for a long time.

If I were you, I'd swap the cushions, left to right. Then be on the hunt for a used set. Look for good passenger cushions in the future because they are often the best but finding nice leather is getting harder for obvious reasons.

You're back! Someone must be shopping for a new E36? :265:

FK Thu, Apr-11-2019 08:36:29 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by egebhardt (Post 1067944897)
Howdy Braymond!

GAAH leather is not my favorite. I don't care if they cost more. The problem is GAAH leather is too thick and cracks when it gets dry.
AutoBerry.com is the best replacement leather as far as fit, texture and cost for $800. Dave knows his business well. OEM remains the best if you can find nice ones.

Re-painting the leather is hardly beneficial. The days of dye are long gone. It's all paint nowadays and has been for a long time.

If I were you, I'd swap the cushions, left to right. Then be on the hunt for a used set. Look for good passenger cushions in the future because they are often the best but finding nice leather is getting harder for obvious reasons.

The legend.

:hattip:

M_Parallel Thu, Apr-11-2019 10:20:35 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
We have the ‘famous’ Stipt Polish Point detailing shop(you can check YT) and they restore cars back to factory new.

I’ve seen worn shiney seats come back almost factory untouched. They don’t reveal any secrets and I still have a hard time believing they don’t redy. If not they have the best degreasing method in existence.

Braymond141 Thu, Apr-11-2019 10:31:54 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Parallel (Post 1067944982)
We have the Ďfamousí Stipt Polish Point detailing shop(you can check YT) and they restore cars back to factory new.

Iíve seen worn shiney seats come back almost factory untouched. They donít reveal any secrets and I still have a hard time believing they donít redy. If not they have the best degreasing method in existence.

I'm 99% sure 99% of those jobs are redyes. But there is a lot you can do with just cleaners.

Braymond141 Thu, Apr-11-2019 10:37:59 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Here's an example of just cleaning leather on a pair of seats I purchased a few weeks ago. E46, but the Nappa leather is identical to E36.

http://photo.msportparts.com/E46/IMG_1788.jpg

http://photo.msportparts.com/E46/IMG_1790.jpg

Mindart Thu, Apr-11-2019 10:48:13 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
very nice work ....

mind if I ask what cleaner you used? degreaser... all purpose cleaner? diluted i am sure.

Braymond141 Thu, Apr-11-2019 10:57:40 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Simple Green. You may have to go full strength, just make sure you even apply any APC as missed spots can leave cleaned spots (you just have to clean again to get rid of them). You can gently use a soaked normal magic eraser too. Used correctly the eraser will not damage.

Note; this type of cleaning is for neglected seats, not really for regular upkeep. Get them clean and then maintain with a gentle leather care cleaner.

Texaz3 Thu, Apr-11-2019 11:32:27 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Agreed! I used Braymonds' method twice now, and the results are pretty amazing. For some strange reason I don't have the picture of completed job, but here is the seat that looked REALLY bad during degreasing - you can see how nice and flat the leather comes out:

https://live.staticflickr.com/7863/3...6e56b811_c.jpg

The second shows how much dirt was picked up by a magic eraser:

https://live.staticflickr.com/7871/3...d986ac22_c.jpg

Mindart Thu, Apr-11-2019 11:36:56 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
that's cool... i'll def give it a try. I really wish they hadn't been re painted... oh well, mine still look pretty good compared to lots i see in classifieds. That's why I hesitate to re-upholster ... the seat covers aren't ripped or even terribly abraded

we'll see how they look after the simple green/ magic eraser technique

M_Parallel Fri, Apr-12-2019 06:51:35 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
That’s great result on those E46 seats. As good as new.

APC? Any specific brand? There are so many out there. I have some McGuiers APC here, but I find it leaves staines too much, even after wiping it all off.

Magic eraser is basically superfine sanding I understood?

Mindart Fri, Apr-12-2019 04:37:07 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
He uses simple green. and yes, you are correct about it being like super fine sand paper.... need to be careful. Light pressure and not to over doing it


Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Parallel (Post 1067945083)
Thatís great result on those E46 seats. As good as new.

APC? Any specific brand? There are so many out there. I have some McGuiers APC here, but I find it leaves staines too much, even after wiping it all off.

Magic eraser is basically superfine sanding I understood?


haus Fri, Apr-12-2019 07:50:30 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Braymond141 (Post 1067944914)
You're back! Someone must be shopping for a new E36? :265:

We are pushing but he's resisting. He needs a Hellrot to complete the collection.

sivikvtec Fri, Apr-12-2019 08:03:36 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I have avoided magic erasers because they allegedly strip away the protective clearcoat. Has this been debunked?

I have some bizarre glossy stains on my seats and all attempts to remove them over the last 11.5 years have failed.

Texaz3 Fri, Apr-12-2019 08:06:40 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by sivikvtec (Post 1067945222)
I have avoided magic erasers because they allegedly strip away the protective clearcoat. Has this been debunked?

No they still will burn through if you apply too much pressure or if you do it often enough (like more than maybe once every year or two). Like Bray said, this is mostly a one-time thing you need to do to bring old leather back - after that - you need to just maintain it.

Braymond141 Fri, Apr-12-2019 09:06:41 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
The eraser sacrifices itself too (this is how they work). Too much or too hard is bad, yes. Light thoughtful application can be OK. You’re trying to get the eraser to grab the junk out crevices other cloth types cannot. Also note, even cloth can damage the layers if used too vigorously.

Start with the mildest form of cleaning possible. Work your way up if needed and understand what reasonable correction can be achieved per your situation.

M_Parallel Sat, Apr-13-2019 01:40:55 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Any thoughts on rubbing alcohol / isopropyl alcohol? I see this often mentioned in detailing forums.

Texaz3 Sat, Apr-13-2019 04:02:52 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Parallel (Post 1067945423)
Any thoughts on rubbing alcohol / isopropyl alcohol? I see this often mentioned in detailing forums.

Its a pretty aggressive solvent, do not use it on leather, or paint for that matter. Some plastics should be ok, I guess.

Earthwormjlm Sat, Apr-13-2019 05:23:31 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Heavily diluted to under 20% concentration, isopropyl alcohol should be OK to use. Not as a primary cleaner, but to clean off any left over residue from whatever you used to do the main cleaning.

It's common to use it on paint too, as the final step before you apply a sealant, to ensure you have cleaned off all residue from polishing compound.

M_Parallel Sat, Apr-13-2019 05:47:25 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texaz3 (Post 1067945446)
Its a pretty aggressive solvent, do not use it on leather, or paint for that matter. Some plastics should be ok, I guess.

Hmm good to know.

Intersting to see, as I some swear by it.

Braymond141 Sat, Apr-13-2019 07:23:03 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
IPA is fine to use. I use it.

Texaz3 Sat, Apr-13-2019 08:28:17 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Braymond141 (Post 1067945496)
IPA is fine to use. I use it.

On leather? To do what - clean?

Braymond141 Sat, Apr-13-2019 08:42:03 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
To strip off grease, yes. I dilute it and do wipe downs often with it.

M_Parallel Sun, Apr-14-2019 06:08:57 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Today, just for fun I tried Alcohol Kentonatus 70% and even a little aceton on a wheel that I couldn’t be bothered with if things went bad.

Can say “wow”, but just see this:

http://idon-industries.com/bimmer/va...19/leather.jpg

That’s not light. I did the outside of the rim, not the back. The difference is just silly. It just came off with ease.

One thing though. When I see all the black gunk on my cloth, I do wonder if it’s gunk/grease/skinoil I’m taking off, or simply rubbing of the paint/dye. Which would make the result less nice.

M_Parallel Sun, Apr-14-2019 06:23:32 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Ps Aceton is probably too aggressive, but just wanted to see what it would do.

Earthwormjlm Mon, Apr-15-2019 12:02:15 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I wouldn't use 70% IPA, dilute it to under 20%. That's what most detailers recommend for degreasing. It's not really a primary cleaner either, use something less aggressive for actual scrubbing like dish soap that is easy on your hands. Follow up with IPA for a quick wipe to remove the cleaner you used and any left over grease.

Definitely wouldn't use Acetone either, that will burn through the leather paint in no time.

M_Parallel Mon, Apr-15-2019 02:49:46 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
This was more an experiment to see its effect.

Is our leather painted or dyed?

Texaz3 Mon, Apr-15-2019 02:53:14 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I'd say painted.

Mollzyie Mon, Apr-15-2019 04:25:26 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Yo guys .. qq . What about leatherique ? Thatís what Iíve been planning on doing . Should I not bother ?

Texaz3 Mon, Apr-15-2019 04:42:46 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollzyie (Post 1067945981)
Yo guys .. qq . What about leatherique ? Thatís what Iíve been planning on doing . Should I not bother ?

Not on this car seat leather.

Mollzyie Mon, Apr-15-2019 06:21:14 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Texaz3 (Post 1067945988)
Not on this car seat leather.



Interesting man ... thanks 🤙🏼

Earthwormjlm Mon, Apr-15-2019 02:39:47 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Parallel (Post 1067945947)
This was more an experiment to see its effect.

Is our leather painted or dyed?

Painted also referred to as pigmented. Dyed does not hold up to years of UV exposure.
It's also a lot more expensive to have dyed leather. You need leather pieces which are borderline perfect as is.

M_Parallel Mon, Apr-15-2019 02:50:15 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Took me some while as Simple Green is not readily sold anywhere, but I found a German supplier and just put in an order for a starter kit and refills.

Can't wait to give it a go.

Do wonder wonder what out leather would look unpainted. Is there something like a 'base' color.

Still with black leather, it's hard to see what I'm taking off is dirt of paint.

The steering wheel I tested the alcohol/aceton on, it does look way more matt now (for better of for worse) and the leather doesn't look damaged.

But I'm not going to take my chances on the M3.

Having said that, Simple Green shouldn't be used on leather either, according to Simple Green's own website:

https://simplegreen.com/products/all-purpose-cleaner/

Quote:

Note: Do not use on suede, leather, unfinished wood, opals or pearls.
I guess it's not all black and white.

Contracheatcode Mon, Apr-15-2019 06:02:47 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Brett: What is your technique to get indentations in the leather and foam out??? Your seats look so crispy. :-)

In the past on my foam, I remove some of the leather and steam up the foam to expand it back to when it was new. I need to be more careful as I already ruined 1 of my e36 seats as I let the steamer get too close to the leather and it burned. Arg.



Mindart Mon, Apr-15-2019 07:30:21 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I used Brett's method of diluted simple green with the magic eraser on my drivers seat on my 2014 F150 and it took them from a dirty shine to a nice factory clean matte finish. I used very light pressure and it didn't go over and over the same area. Worked like a charm.

gonna try it with my Vaders here this weekend. I guess i wonder one last thing, its it worth it to apply some sort of light conditioner on these leathers or is that just a myth and these modern leathers with a top coat simply do not accept conditioners as they just sit on the factory top coat?

thanks


Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Parallel (Post 1067946047)
Took me some while as Simple Green is not readily sold anywhere, but I found a German supplier and just put in an order for a starter kit and refills.

Can't wait to give it a go.

Do wonder wonder what out leather would look unpainted. Is there something like a 'base' color.

Still with black leather, it's hard to see what I'm taking off is dirt of paint.

The steering wheel I tested the alcohol/aceton on, it does look way more matt now (for better of for worse) and the leather doesn't look damaged.

But I'm not going to take my chances on the M3.

Having said that, Simple Green shouldn't be used on leather either, according to Simple Green's own website:

https://simplegreen.com/products/all-purpose-cleaner/



I guess it's not all black and white.


JJCTHE1 Mon, Apr-15-2019 07:43:23 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I vote clean them very good with the Simple Green method. It works well, I would avoid dying and painting completely. They are just never the same after that. I think dying is OK to do a small touch up or minor repair, but when its to refurbish the entire seats it never comes out quite right.

Braymond141 Mon, Apr-15-2019 08:11:42 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Contracheatcode (Post 1067946136)
Brett: What is your technique to get indentations in the leather and foam out??? Your seats look so crispy. :-)

In the past on my foam, I remove some of the leather and steam up the foam to expand it back to when it was new. I need to be more careful as I already ruined 1 of my e36 seats as I let the steamer get too close to the leather and it burned. Arg.



You really can't remove those. Just clean the seats as thoroughly as you can and these imperfections become much more tolerable. Dirt in crevices/cracks are always going to be an eyesore.

M_Parallel Mon, Apr-15-2019 09:02:01 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
All Ďofficialí leather conditioners I tried, always make the leather shiney again. I stopped applying any stuff after leather cleaning.

Mindart Mon, Apr-15-2019 11:40:04 PM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
yeah... i guess the general consensus is to keep it clean and garage the car ( if possible) and that is how you extend the life of the seats. But what is funny is that there are so many leather conditioners out there... i guess its all a sham?

Quote:

Originally Posted by M_Parallel (Post 1067946202)
All ‘official’ leather conditioners I tried, always make the leather shiney again. I stopped applying any stuff after leather cleaning.


Earthwormjlm Tue, Apr-16-2019 03:51:06 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
The leatherique stuff seemed OK to me, I liked the smell. It worked amazingly well on my dyed leather couches. Other than cleaning, I'm not sure it did much to actually condition my Vader leather though. Certainly not the amazing "rejuvenation" everyone raves about... Just seemed like cleaned leather with a leathery smell.

I think the only conditioning it really did was condition my hands.

I'll have to try the simple green and magic eraser method on my seats, seems way easier than the BS you go through for leatherique. I did use the magic eraser with just some water on my steering wheel, definitely restored the color in the stitching.

sivikvtec Tue, Apr-16-2019 04:37:36 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
I tried the simple green + magic eraser on one of my rear side bolsters and was able to greatly reduce the appearance of a stain that’s bothered me for years. I didn’t dilute the simple green and went back over the seat several times with a damp paper towel and rinsing it trying to get it all off. I then treated it with leather masters cleaner and conditioner.

Not sure if I’ll try it on any other parts of the car, the leather still slightly smells like simple green and I’m not crazy about trace amounts of that stuff remaining on the leather. There are opinions all over the internet saying not to use it on leather, but I couldn’t find any examples of it actually damaging someone’s seats, so who knows....

Mollzyie Tue, Apr-16-2019 06:08:07 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Earthwormjlm (Post 1067946365)
The leatherique stuff seemed OK to me, I liked the smell. It worked amazingly well on my dyed leather couches. Other than cleaning, I'm not sure it did much to actually condition my Vader leather though. Certainly not the amazing "rejuvenation" everyone raves about... Just seemed like cleaned leather with a leathery smell.

I think the only conditioning it really did was condition my hands.

I'll have to try the simple green and magic eraser method on my seats, seems way easier than the BS you go through for leatherique. I did use the magic eraser with just some water on my steering wheel, definitely restored the color in the stitching.



I hear u on that . But they say it takes several treatments for it to really start working .

Mollzyie Tue, Apr-16-2019 06:12:05 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Well shit . Everything Iíve always did in the past is kinda out the window after reading on this board . I havenít worked w any leather products since about 2004 . Iím sure thereís a lot of new products out there today . I get it that the proper look from factory is the dull kinda look and I think it looks good , but I also do like the shiny look as well .

Earthwormjlm Tue, Apr-16-2019 06:33:52 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mollzyie (Post 1067946399)
I hear u on that . But they say it takes several treatments for it to really start working .

I think that's the heat stroke getting to people, after they've spent hours applying the stuff repeatedly.

M3AN Tue, Apr-16-2019 08:45:31 AM

Re: re-dye, re-upholster or leave them alone?
 
Try keeping Lotus White clean! Damn. Hence my slow transition to M-Rain and Alcantara (but I'm keeping all of the LW stuff also).

But down under we use Lux (Laundry) Flakes and it performs miracles. If you check out all the mom/mum "cleaning hacks" out there that use Lux you'll be convinced it's a miracle product.

Not sure on what it's called or even whether it's available in NA or EU but probably worth a look. The fact that there's no need to worry about dilution or where you get it is a significant convenience. Warm water, a sponge, lots of clean rags and time is all you need.


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