BMW M3 (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X)

BMW M3 (E30 M3 | E36 M3 | E46 M3 | E92 M3 | F80/X) (
-   Parts for Sale/Wanted (
-   -   CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy (

Dr M3an M3 Wed, Apr-05-2017 02:23:32 AM

CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
Production Order list:

1. Rfacter + tow-hook cover
2. wadewilson0291 + tow-hook cover
3. Jim Gilbert + tow-hook
4. Kouki Monster + tow-hook
5. Kyle90 + tow-hook
6. SHAG - No tow-hook cover (just pre-cut and fitted)
7. Obioban + tow-hook (for both bumpers)
8. rramseyr + tow-hook
9. Mr. Wolfe + tow-hook
10. cozmo kraemer + tow-hook
11. Like I Stole It - No tow-hook cover (just pre-cut and fitted)
12. Smitsky089 + tow-hook cover

UPDATE 8/4/17: Okay guys, after much wait the CSL Bumper Group-Buy page is now live.
Please sign up here.
Click this!
All orders will be processed through this e-commerce tool. So please please sign up here.

The deal is set to go to the payment phase on 8/10/17 at 9:00 AM Pacific. This is a very short Feeler Phase time (since this thread served as the means for the feeler phase), but I wanted to be sure that enough time is to you all to have the chance to show interest and see the deal, before moving on to the payment phase. I anticipate this to sell out quickly once the payment phase is live so I wanted to give everyone a fair heads up ahead of time, since these will be allocated on a "first paid, first served" basis. Prices have been converted to USD and all fees have been calculated into the price so their will be no surprises or additional costs. (Buyer will pay half of the paypal fees while the manufacturer will pay the other half -- This has already been included in the price of the items).

Thank you all for your patience. A lot of time and man-power went into this.

PLEASE NOTE: A separate offer page will be created for those that are only interested the "additional products" being offered. At this time, this specific GB page is dedicated to the CSL Bumper. You can add any of the additional products to your order to combine items for shipping, but doing so implies that you are also purchasing a bumper for this GB page.

If you plan to split shipping with another individual to further save costs, it will be your responsibility to organize this amongst yourselves. One of you will need to purchase 2 bumpers and the logistics of splitting payments and shipping, ect will be your responsibility to organize outside of the deal page. Hopefully this makes sense.


Updates (as they are added) will be located at the bottom of this post!

Ok guys, after the swift success of the recent CSL Boot Lid Group-Buy, I have been working on pulling together a GB for a CSL Front Bumper.

My original goal was to try to get a production run pooled together for authentic OE CSL Bumpers through BMW. Upon further investigation, while it may be possible, the time for production and the costs associated are very prohibitive. We would need a minimum of 50 pre-purchased, and the wait time could take 12 months from what I was told. Needless to say, at the price tag that they would be likely listed at, this could easily be a quarter-million dollar investment and so I don't think this would be worth the effort to pursue further.

Which brings be to this FEELER thread.
I am in communication with a company out in Europe that has been manufacturing high quality parts for our cars (Streamline Aero Design), whom also produces parts for high end exotics like Ferrari and Lambo. They are in the process of releasing their clone of the CSL bumper and from everything I have seen, it looks to be the best clone that will be on the market. Their attention to detail is second to known, including the areas that will not be seen (behind the bumper where it mounts to the car). I am still waiting for final product pictures (will update when available - Should be in the next few days, but from the pictures I have seen of the development process, the fitment is perfect.

The purpose of this thread is to gauge community interest in this project.

Details about this CSL-Clone Front Bumper:

-Buyers will have the option of either FRP or Full Carbon fiber (just like the OE CSL bumper. Aside from the no longer manufactured Vorsteiner CSL bumpers, I believe this is the only bumper on the market to offer full-CF.

Will these bumpers allow the use of other manufacturer's CF front splitters, in the event that I ever need to replace them?
YES Any other oem replica splitter will fit 100%. You can even buy an OE Splitter and it will fit, so no worries about that! This bumper was designed like this on purpose. If you ever need to replace a splitter, your hands are not tied solely to this manufacturer. They do offer replacement CF splitters though.

Will there be an option for a 1-piece lip instead of the splitters?
At this time, the company does not have anything in the works regarding the production of a 1-piece spitter, if enough demand is there, I am sure they will pursue it. They are really good about listening to what the community demands and are also working on producing CF front fenders (without the vents) to match the OE fenders while reducing front end weight of the car, which is being developed purely due to enough people demanding it to be made. Maybe in the future, this enough people will demand a 1-piece front lip, in similar fashion. This bumper DOES include the CF splitters for both the FRP and Full CF bumpers, however. While I cannot confirm 100%, if a 1-piece front lip attaches like the OE splitters and fits an OE CSL front bumper, than it (should) fit this bumper as well. Emphasis on "should" as I have not confirmed this, but this bumper was made to be a complete "carbon copy" of the OE Bumper.

Will a dual-intake hole bumper be an option?
No. Unfortunately not, they are sticking to making only the single-intake hole bumper, like the OE CSL bumpers.

How does it attach to the car?
-This bumper does NOT require an aluminum bumper support like other reps. it uses the exact same mounting system that the CSL bumper uses. Namely #9, 10, and 11 from realoem, as the bumper carrier is built in to the bumper itself, like the original. Should be considerably lighter for you if your car currently uses the aluminum carrier!

Is this the same bumper that other car part distributors sell? You know the "EuroSpec" bumper? ...and Is this going to have that inflated "chipmunk cheek" look to it?

Nope. Completely different bumper, 100% hand-made in house in Europe. These bumpers have not been released yet. Nothing will leave the manufacturer if the weave, quality, and fitment are not 100%.

Let's see some pictures!
I am still waiting on complete, painted and mounted pictures and will update this when I receive them, but here are some pictures of the development progress:

Check out the attention to detail, even though the back of these will be unseen, they make sure that both sides and all the hidden areas are as perfect as can be. Quoted from the makers "We want to produce the highest quality products on the market, and the excuse - 'It is on the inside, you don't see it', doesn't resonate with us."

Because this is a brand new product (not released yet), a carbon fiber version has not yet been produced. For now, I will post pictures of their other items they produce for the car to show you the quality of their carbon fiber work. The weave is flawless.

It looks like there are a lot of awesome products these guys offer! Can I add them to my order?

No. Due to their small sized company, an order this large is going to take up all of their resources. For this GB, the only thing that can be offered is the CSL Front Bumper. If interest exists in their other products, I will make a separate GB for those items, following this GB.

This looks really promising, how many are available?
I know many of you were unable to get into the last GB due to running out of supply, and I am truly sorry that there were not more to meet the demand. Because this company has a small manufacturing presence and because things are hand made to order, we are limited to 14 for this GB. 14??? You heard that correctly. Unfortunately, that is all that the manufacturer can handle at this time. If the demand is there, we can run a second GB after the success of this one. Based on the feedback received after the last GB and to be fair to everyone interested whom live busy lives, If there is enough interest in this GB, I will let everyone know ONE WEEK IN ADVANCE, prior to taking orders. That way people have adequate time to decided if they want in or not. After this grace period, orders will be taken as a "first-come, first-served" basis until all 14 are spoken for.

I want to answer your questions. If you have any, leave them below. If I have an answer, I'll provide it. If I don't have an answer, I will seek it out from the manufacturer ASAP.

I am sure I have left something out, so as things develop, I will add to this OP as I did for the last GB.

Cheers. :hattip:
Update 4/6/17:

Originally Posted by Bubblegunz (Post 1067627285)
Hi boyz,

I am Antony, the CEO of Streamline and I am here to give your minds a little bit of rest on the matters. This will be the only time I will schime in, because there is a lot of 3rd party info, going from 1 guy to the other and I would prefer for me to answer everything directly. I will try to be as theral as possible.

The people I work with are also creating elements for race-cars sutch as european rally-cars (where as you know nothing is left to chance and everything is tested/stress tested etc.), time-attack cars, hillclimb racers etc. The same people work at the moment for a team which has been an european hillclimb champion and has been on the european rally podium. They are currently building up the legendary audi S1 and has a lot of experience building race-cars. This means that these people know a lot more than me about what they are doing and because I want the highest quality items on the market I have these people in my team. Furthermore the exotic cars that have gone through these people's hands is insane - from the rarest possible 992 GT2 RSR to Lambo's, Porsche's etc. The point of this is not to brag, I couldn't care less about that. It is so you know that we are not just 2 people in a garage building carbon products. We are a team of people who test / create and for the most part - know what they are doing. And we are honest enough to not charge 4-5x the price of the item because we can...

Enough about us, I will begin by explaining each material as therally as I can by refering to its properties.

There is a huge misconception that Carbon is a "stronger" material than fiberglass. If you google the word "strength" this is what comes up:

"the strength of a material is its ability to withstand an applied load without failure or plastic deformation"

What will be a huge surprise to many people is that Fiberglass can withstand a higher ammount of load per area than carbon fiber - meaning it has a higher tensile strength. The highest quality fiberglass has about 35-40% higher strength properties than carbon for the same ammount of force applied at the same area. Lower quality fiberglass has about a 15-20% higher strength properties in this regards. High grade fiberglass is actually used in spacecarft where they need high-strength material which needs to be thin at the same time.

Kevlar is on par with the lower-quality fiberglass in terms of strength, and a not as strong as the higher-quality material out there.

Comparing this to aluminium, the carbon fiber is a lot stronger as a meterial per unit of area. So is Kevlar and so is fiberglass.

Actually the tensile strength of all these materials is a lot higher than steel. Again please understand that this is PER UNIT OF AREA not per KILOGRAM so weight is not the factor here! I will get into the weight of the materials a bit further down the line :).

Okey so why are car manufacturers using CARBON rather than Fiberglass? There is a lot to the story. Talking about chassis dinamics is where it will sort of start to make sense. Further down the line I will explain the weight differences as well, which is another reason.

As I told Leighton Carbon fiber is a very very stiff material. In terms of chassis dinamics carbon is about 10% stiffer per unit of area than steel. It is why it is used by car manufacturers for chassis development - if you look at modern supercars all of them have a "carbon tub". It is why it is a great material to be used for a roof and we wouldnt sell a fiberglass roof for anything other than a race car :).
Kevlar is about as stiff per unit of area as high-grade fiberglass. Both of them are about 50% less stiff than Carbon Fiber.
Now let us get to the weights which ties to everything. Carbon is not only 10% stiffer than steel per unit of area, but it is between 60-70% lighter. This simply because the material is a lot less dense than STEEL. Which means that for the same weight as a steel chassis your chassis will be about 72-75% stiffer and more durable (because when you go from lower to higher number percentages change, I hope you realise that).

Kevlar is about a bit less dense than carbon fiber and fiberglass is about 35% denser than carbon. Which is why you see FIBERGLASS items to be about 2x the weight of carbon fiber items.

So in terms of strength to weight KEVLAR IN TENSION will be about 25% stronger and Carbon will be on PAR with high-quality fiberglass and about 10-15% stronger than low-grade fiberglass. However to achieve the same weight the item will also be about 45% bigger. As you probably realize in a front bumper we do not have the space to put 45% more material in order to make the carbon item the same tensile strength.

So for the amount of material we can put, the weight difference comes from the fact that carbon is less dense as a material, but since the same amount of material is used – the item in FRP is actually STRONGER than from carbon fiber.

SO WHY didn’t BMW just use KEVLAR for the front bumper?

Well.. what I haven’t talked about yet is trength in compression. The problem with Kevlar is is that it is creat in tension, but very very poor in compression. The fibers in Kevlar buckle at about 20% the force needed to buckle a fiberglass item OF THE SAME WEIGHT and at about 30% of the force needed to buckle a carbon fiber item of the SAME WEIGHT. So Fiberglass in compression is about 10% stronger PER UNIT OF WEIGHT than carbon fiber. What this means is that if the bumper is 2KG from fiberglass and 2KG from carbon the fiberglass bumper will be the same strength in TENSION and 10% STRONGER in compression. However the FIBERGLASS bumper will be about 2x that weight, so effectively you will have a 2x stronger bumper .

SO to answer the question – WHY DIDN’T BMW USE KEVLAR? Well if you look at your brace, it has multiple angles so that the fibers always work in tension. Not only that but the fibers are connected in different directions. What this means though is that depending where the hit comes from, (from the side for example) if the force is in exact compression to the fibers that brace will have a 50% reduced strength from that impact, because these will fail very very early and only the fibers in tension will actually transfer. It is probably why my personal Kevlar bar failed from a small hit. A FRONTAL hit will make the bar work SOLELY in compression, which is not the issue here. However to adapt the brace with the bumper they would have had to have more fibers working in compression from more angles, which means the shape of the bumper couldn’t have been as it is… it will need more angles and will need a new engineering philosophy. One other thing is that one of the creators admitted that the bumper was taken straight out of one of their motorsport cars – where carbon is mostly used. I will get back to that in a sec.


One more thing is Toughness. The toughness of a material measures its ability to resist stress and strein. Which is basically its resistance to an impact. ELONGATION is an important factor here, it basically measures how far a material can strein before it fails. Well S-glass has the highest toughness per unit of AREA. BOTH fiberglasses do, where high-grade fiberglass comes first. This is because the material has the highest STRENGTH and highest ELONGATION between all these materials. Next is Kevlar, and the least tough is Carbon Fiber, because it is a very brittle material.

In order for you guys to understand what elongation is – think of a ceramic bowl and a plastic one. When dropped (a.k.a impact) the ceramic bowl although mutch stronger will brake, whereas the plastic one may not!


BMW used carbon fiber for a couple of reasons. The main concept for the CSL was lightness (and an FRP bumper will hardly be any lighter than OEM) and CARBON for a unit of AREA is as we said a lot LIGHTER as a material. If you read the interview for pistonheads of one of the creators of the CSL car he says that he asked his supervisor whether cost is a concern or the car should be as LIGHT as possible in terms of the front bumper and the supervision said – LIGHTNESS is our biggest concern. An FRP bumper would not have been that mutch lighter than the standard one – although it would have been stronger. Also they had these bumpers made and tested for their racecars and they copied the technology without further crash-tests and other testing. IT was a more effective – lighter and somewhat cheaper and more streight forwards way to go.


The front brace is the item which took most of our time. We took appart a whole CSL bumper in order to figure out exactly how it is made. We thickened the brace a little bit as well, made it smoother. A lot of research and development went EXACTLY into that brace in order to make it the best possible product. We looked at the way it is reinforced and did the same exact thing to our bumpers. To do that you need people with a lot of experience and thankfully I have such people on my team which know a lot more about how an impact will affect the bumper then I do. We further researched the brace and as I said even thickened it at a couple of points where we thought that is needed!

The bumpers had to be out 1 month ago, however we needed 1 more month (on top of the 2 months before) for research and development SOLELY on the front brace. A test variant was made – modified, tested again, and the process was repeated until we made the final variant. It is how we work – it is what we do. After all this bumper is going on my car, and I will not risk my own life because of a bumper… especially since my car sees track duties and will see such even more often from now on – I do not have a cage installed.

P.S. One more thing I forgot to mention is that you can easily repair an FRP item with any FRP producer anywhere in the world. All you need to do is give it to them shortly after the impact and with most of the pieces that are collected. It can easily be made as good as new. Carbon is a bit different.

I hope this answers satisfies all of you guys. Sorry for my English I realize I might have made many grammatical mistakes.

Best regards,
Antony Nikolov

Update 4/11/17:

Okay guys, I have a worth while update today, which includes potentially less than good news, great news, and for a large portion of you, possibly better news.

Lets start with the potentially less than good news:
The bumper is not ready and is going to require more additional time to perfect. The internal brace needs to be adjusted and brought down by about 0.7mm. As it currently sits, they are not satisfied with the fitment gap between the headlight and the bumper. Part of the reason this thread is a feeler, is because I wanted to keep you all in the loop, while this product nears completion and I didn't want to open up the GB until the product is 200% complete. So, please be patient, these guys are working hard to make the best product possible.

The good news:
The team at Streamline Aero is more motivated to make the best product possible, than they are to bring a product to market as quickly as possible in order to chase profits. Any time a new product is being developed (even if the product is a clone of an existing piece) hiccups in the developmental process are expected. What I appreciate with this company, is their communication regarding the development process, their fine attention to detail, and the fact that they are not going to rush a product to market. Simply put, these guys are NOT going to stamp their name on anything less than a product that they deem perfect. So, while the bumper may need additional time to work out these small kinks, the good news (to me at least), is that they are diligently working as fast as they can to address any design issues, without sacrificing any quality. They won't release anything that is not 100%, and that is a business model that I can stand by.

(POSSIBLY) great news for what appears to be a majority of you:

Because the internal bumper carrier needs adjustment to make perfect, they have communicated to me that they MAY actually adapt the bumper to work with the OE Kevlar bumper carrier instead, since a large majority of you have expressed the desire for this bumper to be directly compatible with the OE Kevlar bumper carrier. As I have mentioned in previous posts, I value the fact that these guys listen to what the community wants.
I don't want to jump the gun on this however. It is too early to be able to say definitely if they will be adjusting the OEM CSL-styled bumper support or re-adapting the bumper for the Kevlar bumper carrier, but they have heard your voice and are looking at both options very carefully so that they can bring the best fitting, easy installing, and highest quality product to the market. I am not an engineer, I am just an enthusiast, so for guys that have the older aluminum style bumper carrier, I am not sure what that translates to you all, if they go the kevlar route. I am sure other members on here will chime in as to whether the kevlar or aluminum bumper carriers are cross compatible. IF they do decide to go the kevlar bumper route, I will of course find out the details on what that means for those of you that have the stock aluminum bumper. Based on the feedback of this thread, I think this might be (potentially) great news for a lot of you.

I will of course keep you all updated as new information is released to me. I really appreciate your patience and your understanding that these guys are working hard to finish this product as soon as possible, without sacrificing fitment or quality. More than anything else, these guys are motivated to bring nothing but their best work to market, and this is a business model that I respect and am more than happy to wait patiently for, while any imperfections are being addressed.

Also, I have confirmed that the tow-hook is fully functional and will utilize the stock tow-hook cover and the sides of this bumper are exactly like the OE CSL version...Meaning NO chipmunk cheeks! =)

Shipping Terms:
Upon Shipment of items from Streamline, once the items have been collected by the shipper, the responsibility for the items then lies with them and you as their customer. Any damage must be reported to the shipper. Any delay in delivery on grounds of transport error or damage will also be responsibility of the shipper. Myself and Streamline take no responsibility in this case.

e46IX Wed, Apr-05-2017 02:29:27 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
If you can convince them to make a 1-piece lip count me in.

Shadytype Wed, Apr-05-2017 02:42:56 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
Might be an incorrect question, but I believe the aluminum front carrier is diff then the Kevlar front carrier. Will this bumper attach to both, or only one? Or do they need to specify which one we have?

daytonaviolet Wed, Apr-05-2017 02:50:13 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
these bumpers look very promising. one of my main concerns are nuts for the ASA bolts attached? today streamline posted some pics. this looks like a good solution. :hattip:

terraphantm Wed, Apr-05-2017 02:58:37 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
I'd only be interested if it can be made compatible with the Kevlar bumper support.

Dr M3an M3 Wed, Apr-05-2017 02:58:43 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Originally Posted by Shadytype (Post 1067626375)
Might be an incorrect question, but I believe the aluminum front carrier is diff then the Kevlar front carrier. Will this bumper attach to both, or only one? Or do they need to specify which one we have?

When I asked them this question yesterday (knowing it would come up) I was told: "It will not fit any of the 2 bumper carriers. It fits the same as the OE CSL Bumper, so the mounting mechanism utilizes the following: Number 9,10,11 on the REALOEM diagram."
(Diagram linked below)

Neither the Aluminum bumper carrier or the kevlar bumper carrier is necessary. Which means more front end weight savings (if you have the aluminum bumper carrier currently on your car)! The bumper carrier is integrated into the CSL bumper itself, just like the OE CSL Bumper. It attaches using left and right bumper shock absorbers (Those with Aluminum bumper carriers have this on their cars already, those with kevlar bumpers would need to buy them.)
~$92 each:


CSL Front Bumper Diagram:

terraphantm Wed, Apr-05-2017 03:04:21 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
CSL bumper attaches directly to #9. It would be a weight savings for aluminum support cars (which have the aluminum support attaching to #9, and bumper cover attaching to the aluminum support).

The kevlar support eliminates #9, so I don't think the CSL bumper would save any weight for those cars. Might even add a little.

Also if they're going for a direct mount, I don't think fiberglass is a good idea - it would be destroyed before dissipating any energy to #9. Frankly I don't know if I would trust a non-OE engineered bumper of any material if it's performing an actual safety function (which it would be if the aluminum or kevlar bars are eliminated).

Dr M3an M3 Wed, Apr-05-2017 03:10:48 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy

Originally Posted by terraphantm (Post 1067626396)
CSL bumper attaches directly to #9. It would be a weight savings for aluminum support cars (which have the aluminum support attaching to #9, and bumper cover attaching to the aluminum support).

The kevlar support eliminates #9, so I don't think the CSL bumper would save any weight for those cars. Might even add a little.

Also if they're going for a direct mount, I don't think fiberglass is a good idea - it would be destroyed before dissipating any energy to #9. Frankly I don't know if I would trust a non-OE engineered CF bumper if it's performing an actual safety function.

Thanks for the clarification Terra. All valid points.

KoukiMonster Wed, Apr-05-2017 03:27:45 AM

Re: FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
I'm in. Just tell me when and where to pay. :hattip:

daytonaviolet Wed, Apr-05-2017 03:30:10 AM

FEELER thread: CSL Front Bumper Group-Buy
I agree .. that's why I have Oem csl bumper where the entire bumper and carrier is made from CF. but even with that, not sure that a CF carrier can withstand as much force as aluminum carrier even with the same bumper shocks.

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