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-   -   99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement (http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=402928)

egebhardt Mon, Apr-09-2012 04:02:24 AM

99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
This is my procedure for fixing the Sand Beige leather seats in my newly-acquired Estoril.
Background
I bought this Estoril M3/2/5 on March 12th of this year. I couldn't resist the color combo on LTWs. With 155k on the clock, many problems existed. The worst of it, after a few months of refreshing, turned out to be obvious. The interior.

http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/001.jpg

This seat had been redone once before. It is a thick leather. Maybe thick leather is bad and it looked like vinyl. It had to go.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/002.jpg

A hole on the left side? Typically it's on the right. The PO had a slipper dog.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/003.jpg

There were dog hairs everywhere. That little bastard did this. It rode up front too. NO PETS ALLOWED.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/004.jpg

After seeing Leatherique in person, I didn't want to sit on shiny cardboard, so that was OUT. Sanding and painting sounds like body work, not leather.

So the search for real leather began. Since the dash was black, I could have found some black vaders and been done, but the build sheet under the back seats said Estoril (335M) on Sand Beige (N5SN), so I had to stick with that if I wanted this car to be worth something in 10 years.

Here are the SAMPLES I had to work with.
BMW Nappa (sheep) Sand Beige N5SN - No Longer Available NLA
BMW Montana (cow) Sand Beige P8SN - Found some $20 donor seats for the rear seat tear.
AutoBerry.com #837 - Slightly thinner, slightly more texture, slightly lighter color of the correct shade. $861 shipped
Global Upholstery BM 1740 - Fair color but texture too heavy. Bottom too furry. $2,100+
GAHH #0515 - Fair color but texture too heavy. $2,300+
(prices based on complete front seats only)
After all the samples arrived, I made my decision. www.AutoBerry.com at 877.767.1300 for $761 shipped. Thanks Dave!
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/005.jpg

Tools
Wire cutters (for hog rings)
Hog Ring pliers $12 on Ebay
Scissors $8 at JoAnn fabrics
25 torx screwdriver
Pliers of all kinds $8 at Kragen
Staple gun G50 $20 at HomeDepot
Small hammer
Leather hole punch $9 at HomeDepot
The Bostitch P7 ring stapler is a nice idea, but you can't reach into the crevices. You have to use the hog ring pliers to squeeze down in those tight places.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0022.jpg

Materials
Leather skins (already made by AutoBerry)
Polyfil for quilting (has glue in it)
Light polyester fabric
11/16" galvanized hog rings from www.onlinefabricstore.net/
T50 staples for the headrest
1/4" JoAnn fabrics foam headliner


Process
First, remove the seats from the car. (4) 16mm bolts
Un-screw the seat bottom. (2 small torx screws towards front)
Un-screw the back cover. (2 small torx screws at bottom back)
Pop off side levers and covers with large screwdriver.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0020.jpg

Un-hook the back leather from the hooks on the seat frame.
Un-hook the leather from the seat bottom removed from above.

Shown here is the original polyfil layer on the 14yr old foam bottom. The holes are where the hog rings go. If you look closely, you can see some of the leather stuck to the Polyfil. At JoAnn Fabrics, I found some Polyfil that is for quilting. Quilting means it has glue in it so light ironing (with steam) will get 2 pieces of fabric on each side to stick. Since my weight and sweat will be on it, I felt no need to get out the iron. The hog rings hold the materials in place anyway.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/006.jpg

I used the original Polyfil as a template for the new stuff.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/007.jpg

Fish the wires back in from the old seat covers. I straightened them out by hand first. Nice strong spring steel. These are the wires that have to be ringed to the wires embedded in the foam in the seats. Making them straight helps the final look appear slightly more sorted.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...photos/008.jpg

I bought 11/16" wide, 16 guage hog rings. Any heavier guage and they get too hard to cut off when you make mistakes. Any larger and they don't wrap the 2 wires close enough.
I wore latex gloves to keep the leather clean. I wear them anyway because washing my hands lot so I don't have to wash my hands either.
Putting in some rings took upwards of 10 minutes each. You squeeze and release, only to find you missed joining the wires. Cut and fish out the old ring and try again.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0010.jpg

I also used a light polyester fabric layer to protect the foam (only on my seat and back surfaces). I saw this used on the rear side bolsters when I tore some old seats apart.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0011.jpg

Hog ringing is a process where you start in the middle and work out. Do the ribs first, then the sides. The sports seats were obviously more work because of the 3 ribs. The non-sport seats would be quicker and probably have less wear overall.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0012.jpg

This is before I punched the holes for the hooks on the bottom.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0014.jpg

This step is critical in how tight or loose the leather will be. I pulled/wrapped the leather up and against the hook, marked where I wanted the hole to be, then punched the final hole with a leather punch. Then pulled the leather over the hook. The crucial thing is this. If the hole is too far/tight, you can punch again to loosen it. If the hole is not far enough or loose, you are screwed. You can't relocate the hole to tighten it! Choose wisely.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0015.jpg

In this picture, the 3 ribs are loose. I have since added some foam in them but the wires embedded in the foam were no longer embedded well. More foam will not fix it but rather make it pillowy. The fix here is to find a new BMW OEM foam base. If I ever find another, I'll redo it. If you have non-sport seats (no ribs), you can still find the base foam 52-1-08-122-076 at www.thebmwpartstore.com for $110 shipped.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0016.jpg

The driver's seat bottom on the left is with the new BMW OEM foam. The old one is with original foam, padded extra in some areas. I have since added some foam to the passenger ribs.
If I could have found foam for both seats, I would have. I found the new foam from a Nick at BMW-Honda in IL. The only set I could find in the US.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0017.jpg

The right side has new a new foam back. The left does not. They don't look much different yet. Therefore, new foam on the bottom makes the most difference. Once it is stretched over the seat frame, it will be much tighter, of course.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0018.jpg

As you can see, the headrests have the wrinkle at the bend.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0019.jpg

The passenger bottom was lacking foam in the ribs, so I supplemented that shown here. It helped a bit, but not great. I really would need to spend a month finding 2 dozen different foam densities and thicknesses and foam adhesives. That could yield better results.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0024.jpg

The driver's seat.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0026.jpg

Driver's seat installed.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0028.jpg

Back seat. I bought donor leather back seats in BMW Montana Sand Beige for $20. It cost another $40 to have Francisco DeVille sew it in.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0030.jpg

Driver's seat.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0032.jpg

Passenger side.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0034.jpg

Passenger seat.
http://i185.photobucket.com/albums/x...hotos/0036.jpg

Conclusions
Overall, I think I did better than average. 20 hours of labor preceeded by 20 hours of research.
Getting the seats to look like factory originals is not possible. The foam gets beaten down and is not readily available anymore. If you do find foam, buy just the bottom. Also, the leather samples are all different. Pick what you can live with.
How it looks in the end.....
The pillow effect is from supplemental foam or polyfil on the bolsters. The alternative is to leave it baggy with wrinkles. Pillows or wrinkles or somewhere in between.
Sure, maybe the leather could be cut and sewn to accommodate worn foam cushions or you can stretch the leather more or less, but you can't wrap new leather on old foam and expect it to look crisp. AutoBerry is smart to laser-cut the pieces to original size. The wrinkles could be heat-shrunk, which can be done after all is done. I think I'll let wait for a warm day in the sun first.
COSTs
761 front cover set
60 rear seat fix
261 new driver's seat foam (good luck finding more!)
100 in tools and materials
1282 Total

Braymond141 Mon, Apr-09-2012 04:24:00 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
Nice, make sure you carefully use a heat gun to remove the ripples

Anubis Mon, Apr-09-2012 05:08:08 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
Looking forward to seeing the installed pics!

SteveTVM3 Mon, Apr-09-2012 05:10:33 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
paging Sharocks.

jkoppo Mon, Apr-09-2012 05:15:50 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
this is impressive work. keep it up

MMMGP Mon, Apr-09-2012 05:53:15 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
Yeah! Finally some pics! I'm in for updates.

Sharocks Mon, Apr-09-2012 06:29:58 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveTVM3 (Post 1065447811)
paging Sharocks.

Dude seriously, OP as you already know I have the same interior and my vaders are also f-ed.

Would like to take this chance to thank you for showin me how to to do this as I am going with the Autoberry ones as well.

When I do this however I will add more foam to the bolsters as I find the vaders can't hold anything :shifty:

OP ftmfw!

Braymond141 Mon, Apr-09-2012 06:42:36 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
I'm concerned as much as I am optimistic.

This looks like Gahh leather skins. Danios had the same issue with his; http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=168415

I really hope these turn out better once installed. I swear I saw a video talking about how to safely use a heatgun to shrink leather to fit, but cannot seem to locate it.

Sharocks Mon, Apr-09-2012 06:59:15 AM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Braymond141 (Post 1065447912)
I'm concerned as much as I am optimistic.

This looks like Gahh leather skins. Danios had the same issue with his; http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=168415

I really hope these turn out better once installed. I swear I saw a video talking about how to safely use a heatgun to shrink leather to fit, but cannot seem to locate it.

Yea I know what your talking about, I've seen that video on YouTube about shrinking the leather with a heatgun as well.

There is a guy on bimmerforums that installed these covers on his vaders and it ended up looking pudgy/ballooned, especially the headrests.

ahardm3 Mon, Apr-09-2012 03:41:21 PM

Re: 99 Estoril on Sand Beige - Front Vader Leather Replacement
 
Lots of work! very excited to see the end product!


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