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View Full Version : Is MD gonna become the new VA?


Six
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 01:38:03 AM
http://www.gazette.net/stories/012506/montsta194821_31898.shtml :chair: :chair: :chair:

flagger
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 04:00:24 AM
http://www.gazette.net/stories/012506/montsta194821_31898.shtml :chair: :chair: :chair:

VA had red light cameras. DC has the speed cameras. VA cameras turned off last fall. Delegate from Reston felt they violated her privacy (idiot), so she lobbied for non-renewal of the authorization to use the cameras.

Bagher
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 06:29:53 AM
**** red light cameras. They messed with the timing of the yellow lights so they could generate revenue.

kstarcvngh
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 04:37:16 PM
WOW that sucks

Phat Ham
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 06:25:28 PM
VA had red light cameras. DC has the speed cameras. VA cameras turned off last fall. Delegate from Reston felt they violated her privacy (idiot), so she lobbied for non-renewal of the authorization to use the cameras. Are you saying they're stupid for getting rid of the red light cameras? If so, you're wrong. The red light cameras did nothing to reduce traffic accidents at the intersections they were placed at. In fact, the number of accidents increased when red light cameras were put in place.

flagger
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 09:56:20 PM
Are you saying they're stupid for getting rid of the red light cameras? If so, you're wrong. The red light cameras did nothing to reduce traffic accidents at the intersections they were placed at. In fact, the number of accidents increased when red light cameras were put in place.

Anything that gets people to obey a red light is a good thing. Cameras will not cause an increase in accidents. That statement doesn't even make sense since the camera is behind you when you're driving through the intersection. Unless, of course, you like to turn around and smile at them as you drive through the intersection. Red lights mean exactly what the color implies - Stop. Yes, there is always the possibility you could get forced into an intersection by an emergency vehicle, but on a percentage basis, that is pretty low. An no, they don't play with the yellow light sequencing to get revenue (falls under Urban Myths). If they wanted the additional revenue, they can come sit at my house and watch the folks run red lights, often with cross traffic in the intersection, or better yet after they've stopped and the proceed.

Have you ever noticed that the only people that complain about things like red light cameras and speeding tickets are the recipients.

Bagher
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 10:08:28 PM
Anything that gets people to obey a red light is a good thing. Cameras will not cause an increase in accidents. That statement doesn't even make sense since the camera is behind you when you're driving through the intersection. Unless, of course, you like to turn around and smile at them as you drive through the intersection. Red lights mean exactly what the color implies - Stop. Yes, there is always the possibility you could get forced into an intersection by an emergency vehicle, but on a percentage basis, that is pretty low. An no, they don't play with the yellow light sequencing to get revenue (falls under Urban Myths). If they wanted the additional revenue, they can come sit at my house and watch the folks run red lights, often with cross traffic in the intersection, or better yet after they've stopped and the proceed.

Have you ever noticed that the only people that complain about things like red light cameras and speeding tickets are the recipients.

please dont talk if you have no idea of the facts:


This was a study by the Virginia Department of Transportation to support the continued use of cameras in the state. It was presented in December 2004.

However, the information in the study actually shows red light camera intersections to be more dangerous. The study showed a definite increase in rear-end crashes and only a possible decrease in angle crashes. It also showed an increase in total injury crashes.
http://www.motorists.com/issues/enforce/studies/05-vdot.pdf

Bagher
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 10:09:38 PM
ooh look you are wrong again:

"http://www.motorists.com/issues/enforce/vastudy.html"

Phat Ham
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 11:04:05 PM
Anything that gets people to obey a red light is a good thing. Cameras will not cause an increase in accidents. That statement doesn't even make sense since the camera is behind you when you're driving through the intersection. Unless, of course, you like to turn around and smile at them as you drive through the intersection. Red lights mean exactly what the color implies - Stop. Yes, there is always the possibility you could get forced into an intersection by an emergency vehicle, but on a percentage basis, that is pretty low. An no, they don't play with the yellow light sequencing to get revenue (falls under Urban Myths). If they wanted the additional revenue, they can come sit at my house and watch the folks run red lights, often with cross traffic in the intersection, or better yet after they've stopped and the proceed.

Have you ever noticed that the only people that complain about things like red light cameras and speeding tickets are the recipients. What happens is when people see a yellow at an intersection with a camera they make a panic stop instead of going through the intersection like they normally would. The driver behind them is expecting the person to keep going, and you get a rear end collision.

I agree with you that running red lights is stupid, but red light cameras don't help the cause.

Also, let's not forget that the company who installs and operates these cameras, Lockheed Martin, takes a cut of each ticket. That's right, the more tickets they give out, the more money they make. And being a corporation, you better bet that Lockheed wants to make more money. Doesn't sound right does it?

Then there's the whole "right to face your accuser" thing. When a cop gives you a speeding ticket he hands you the ticket and you get your day in court. You get to face your accuser. When you get a red light camera ticket it's mailed to you by a damn machine. It's BS.

FWIW, I've never gotten a red light camera or speeding camera ticket.

flagger
Thu, Jan-26-2006, 11:31:42 PM
please dont talk if you have no idea of the facts:


This was a study by the Virginia Department of Transportation to support the continued use of cameras in the state. It was presented in December 2004.

However, the information in the study actually shows red light camera intersections to be more dangerous. The study showed a definite increase in rear-end crashes and only a possible decrease in angle crashes. It also showed an increase in total injury crashes.
http://www.motorists.com/issues/enforce/studies/05-vdot.pdf

I haven't got time to read 141 pages, but it the drift of the study is there are more rear-enders, then perhaps VA drivers should not be following so close or should be paying more attention to the car in front of them. That is the primary cause of rear-enders. If you come to a stop at an intersection and the guy behind you, talking on his cell phone, runs into the back of you, are you going to blame the red light? Don't think so.

Second page "http://www.motorists.com/issues/enforce/vastudy.html" is a study by a lobbying group. What they say makes sense. If you increase the yellow light time, there may be fewer violators, (the implication I read in your post is they shortened the times and I don't see that in that study) but there are also those who just see a yellow light as nothing more than a green light and make no effort to slow or stop. Also, any study by a lobbying group can be suspect.

Kind of looking at the same statistics as published by a Pro-Life group and a Pro-Choice group. They will each reach their own conclusions founded in fact.

In accounting there is an axiom: Liars figure and figures lie. Not everything in print is what it seems.

Thanks for the articles.

Budman
Fri, Jan-27-2006, 03:13:13 AM
I hate VA drivers.. wait I hate all drivers.

MpoweredM
Fri, Jan-27-2006, 04:10:32 AM
I hate joo too.

MpoweredM
Fri, Jan-27-2006, 04:11:03 AM
I just pray we can have Radar Detectors, for safety use. :)

Bagher
Fri, Jan-27-2006, 04:15:24 AM
Gunnar you are a driver, you hate yourself?

MpoweredM
Fri, Jan-27-2006, 04:18:58 AM
*EDIT* Just heard the Radar Detector didn't pass. :(

Budman
Fri, Jan-27-2006, 01:27:28 PM
Gunnar you are a driver, you hate yourself?
Maybe I should have added "other" :).. I need clear open roads all for myself

Obioban
Fri, Jan-27-2006, 09:27:23 PM
*EDIT* Just heard the Radar Detector didn't pass. :(

Whatever, get an undetectable one and hide it somewhere. :nixweiss:

Phat Ham
Sun, Jan-29-2006, 11:36:05 PM
I haven't got time to read 141 pages, but it the drift of the study is there are more rear-enders, then perhaps VA drivers should not be following so close or should be paying more attention to the car in front of them. That is the primary cause of rear-enders. If you come to a stop at an intersection and the guy behind you, talking on his cell phone, runs into the back of you, are you going to blame the red light? Don't think so. you're right. The cause of rear end collisions is people not paying attention to the car in front. But red light cameras only exacerbate the problem. They cause more panic stops, which result in more rear end collisions.

It's easy enough to say drivers should pay more attention to the road. If it were that simple we wouldn't need red light cameras in the first place since nobody would run red lights.

flagger
Mon, Jan-30-2006, 03:44:24 AM
It's easy enough to say drivers should pay more attention to the road. If it were that simple we wouldn't need red light cameras in the first place since nobody would run red lights.

Huh??

BigHat
Mon, Jan-30-2006, 02:40:35 PM
you're right. The cause of rear end collisions is people not paying attention to the car in front. But red light cameras only exacerbate the problem. They cause more panic stops, which result in more rear end collisions.

It's easy enough to say drivers should pay more attention to the road. If it were that simple we wouldn't need red light cameras in the first place since nobody would run red lights.


Agree.

The points missing in this debate are:

Regarding "blame." If I stop quickly to avoid running a red light and the guy even farther behind me, that plans to run even a "redder" light hits me, he's justifiably upset that I stopped?

I skimmed the report. It makes some conclusions that make you scratch your head. While the assertions previously cited do come from the report, what is missing is that the cameras do dramatically decrease intersection collisions and injuries. The report doesn't address this, and I can't make an honest declarative claim about it, but I'd think intersection crashes have to be worse on average then these "rearenders" supposedly caused by red light cameras. I'd rather be rearended tahn t-boned.

Lastly, what's the likelihood that the average driver at the intersection even knows that it has a camera monitoring. Sure, if it's on your commuting route you'd know eventually, but most drivers don't see the cameras etc, so the fact is there has no impact on most driver's behavior.

Bagher
Mon, Jan-30-2006, 02:45:16 PM
Lastly, what's the likelihood that the average driver at the intersection even knows that it has a camera monitoring. Sure, if it's on your commuting route you'd know eventually, but most drivers don't see the cameras etc, so the fact is there has no impact on most driver's behavior.


All camera's in Virginia have signs telling you that they are there. Don't think this is true in MD and D.C. And like you said, if you don't know they are there, there is no impact on the behavior, so what is the point of it if it doesn't make people change their behavior (stopping at a red light)? There is no point, just a revenue generator.

BigHat
Mon, Jan-30-2006, 03:08:41 PM
All camera's in Virginia have signs telling you that they are there. Don't think this is true in MD and D.C. And like you said, if you don't know they are there, there is no impact on the behavior, so what is the point of it if it doesn't make people change their behavior (stopping at a red light)? There is no point, just a revenue generator.

Almost true. If I made a habit of running red lights (I don't) and if I got a ticket from a red light camera for doing so, I might modify my behavior next time.

My point is that if you don't have a sign or happen to miss it (like when you're rushing through a light) you'll do exactly what you planned to do all along and the t-bone or rearender accident probably is the same and the camera is not a factor.

maditalian
Mon, Jan-30-2006, 06:57:19 PM
well, i think i just found the solution to all our discussions and also the solution to the future revenue cameras coming to MD

http://www.phantomplate.com/

:D

Six
Mon, Jan-30-2006, 08:21:47 PM
well, i think i just found the solution to all our discussions and also the solution to the future revenue cameras coming to MD

http://www.phantomplate.com/

:D

I have that on my parents cars. My dad used to get a lot of those tickets, but that stopped all but one. and it seems to turn the LP yellowish.