I read in a press release that the SMG II will be available for the E46 M3 in fall of 2001 as a 2002 model.

The only prices I have seen are rumors and/or european prices. Based on this, I think it's probably going to be around $2500 to $3500 option.

The Sequesntial M Gearbox (SMG) has an electronically actuated clutch with paddles on the steering wheel to switch gears (also has the traditional stickshift). What it does not have is the clutch on the floor since it is done by the gearbox. The benefit is that you have a real "manual" gearbox without the need to heel/toe...double clutch, etc. It's similar to the F1 system in the Ferrari. I have read, however, that the SMG II is almost twice as fast as the Ferrari in gearshifts.

Here is an article from the "BMW Magazine" (1/2001). "BMW Magazine" is the publication sent out to BMW owners.

http://www.m3forum.com/gallery/smg_BMWmag.jpg

If you have more info, please post them here!

[This message has been edited by Frank (edited 05-05-2001).]

I read in Roundel this month that the SMG-II may not come to the US. Can you verify this.

Thanks.

are the paddles on the steering column (like the windshield wiper and the turn signal)? or is it on the actual wheel (rotating with it and everything)?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
This high-tech feature manages instantaneous gear changes via shift levers on the streering wheel.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Victor,

What reasons did the Roundel article give for the possibility of no SMG II in the US?
Thanks.

Greetings from across the Pond.

I've just finalised options for an M3 Convertible being built in the first week of September and have opted for the SMGII gearbox as an option. The price here is £2400 (about $3800).

The other optional extras I've gone for are the Harmon-Kardon Stereo, 19" wheels, Sat. Nav with TV Monitor. The car itself is very well specced for the UK market already, but I wont tell you what I'm paying as it's way more than what it costs in the states.

If you want some more info on the SMG box then follow the link below and the SMG option will lead you to a very helpful Flash section.
http://www.bmw.com/bmwe/products/special/

When I get the car in September/October I'll post some pictures.

Hello everyone,
From what I know, the SMG II is the most advanced F1 shifter to be offered in a production car. If my numbers are right, it can shift a gear in about 0.18 seconds. (I think I remember reading somewhere that it can do its best shifts in 0.08secs, although now that I think of it that is way too fast to be true) This definitely makes it faster then the primitive system in the Ferrari.

And a reccomendation to What_Speed_Trap?, dump the Harman Kardon stereo. I took to delivery of my M3 a month ago. It's a convertible, with 19" wheels, and Sat. Nav. and a T.V. monitor, integrated Motorolla phone, and rear parking sensor. If I were you I'd take the Sat. Nav. and T.V. monitor, and phone, but forget the Harmon Kardon and spend the money getting a custom stereo system from a proffesional shop. The stereo is good, but not wow. Don't be expecting to blow your ears off with the Harmon Kardon. Especially with the top down. You'll lose most of the sound in the air. Other than that the car is real sweet. Driving under 120km/h with the top up you'll never feel it's a convertible. I had a guy ride my car and didn't notice it was a convertible until I told him. Getting a hardtop would be agood idea, but I'm gonna wait to see what Hamman comes up with. I hear they're making one for the M3. I think it sould be worth the wait.
Thanks

Mo

I gave up my spot for a 2001 M3 (I had already placed my order, it was/will be canceled). I'm first in line :-) for a 2002 M3 with the SMG II transmission.

My dealer did confirm that it will be coming to the US.

- Kyle

Went to my dealer saturday and got the famous brochure about the SMG II and am now considering changing my order to include this.

The document describes there being 5 A modes and 6 S modes, but doesn't give much in the way of details on them. Does anyone know more?

I hear that they are now calling it SS(Sport)G and not SMG.

Hello everyone,

Can anyone tell me how the SMGII will perform compared to the 6-speed manual? One thing I never quite understood about these pseudo-manual transmissions is how one would launch the car from a stop? There's no more clutch to maintain the car at a certain RPM before launching right?

My biggest concern in choosing options for the M3 is how it will affect performance, not convenience. Can anyone give me an idea as to the benefits and drawbacks of this system vs the traditional manual please. Thanks.

I haven't tried the SMG, yet, but I"m quite familiar with the Ferrari F1 setup (on the 360 Modena). I believe it's pretty similar, but I hear the SMG is even better!

For the F1, there are two paddles, the right one shifts up, the left one down. Pulling both back places it in neutral. To start from a stop, pull the right lever to put the car in 1st gear (you can also start out in 2nd, too). Press down on the gas, the computer engages the clutch, and you're off. You have to modulate the gas just as you would with a normal clutch. It does have an odd feeling, like someone else is operating the clutch while you are operating the gas. It's very hard to start out smoothly. Once underway, and once the tranny is warmed up, the shifts are smooth. In sport mode, and when you shift over 7000 RPM, the shifts are very quick (200ms). Downshifts are double clutched. It's quite awesome! I can't wait to see how BMW improved upon it. The Ferrari system has a long way to go before it's smooth enough to replace a torque converter.
I've tried putting the F1 in automatic mode, but it annoys the hell out of me, so I almost never use it...

Have heard that this semi auto shifting is very agressive on the clutch. Aquiantance who has a F1 360 is getting through a clutch every 2000 miles!!

------------------

2000 miles! Wow, he must really drive that thing hard! I've got about 3000 miles on mine, and the clutch doesn't appear to be any worse for wear - and that included about 200 miles of storming around Thunderhill race track. The only time it appears hard on the clutch is during take-off, where it slips the clutch more than I would have. Shifts are nicely matched and fairly smooth with little slip, so I can't imagine this would wear the clutch. I'm hoping my clutch will last until the engine out service at 30K but maybe I'm dreaming...

I just placed an order today for a regular 2002 6-speed (I place my deposit 3/99 and I hope to get the car in late October). On the order sheet from BMW of America, SMG II was available for 2002 M3's with production for SMG II starting in November with December delivery. It has a $2700 retail cost. Good luck trying to get one - I hear the length of the list is unmanageable.

More info on SMG II
http://www.bmwworld.com/models/config/m3_smg.htm

The SSG that BMW has announced is for a few of the non-M models... such as the 330Ci... SSG won't be quite as advanced as SMGII... it will not have as many selectable shift programs but is rumored to be just as smooth if a bit less sporty.

It is ABSOLUTELY NOT true that the lists are unbelievable. I decided about a month ago that I wanted one (a 2002 M3 with SMG), and e-mailed every dealer in the US. I found a dealer, (no I won't tell you who), who had a VERY SHORT list. By his estimates, I'll have it in December, or January. So, If you live somewhere other than the west coast, and want an M3, call around! (Just a quick note about what's going on in case you ARE just now starting to make the rounds like I did.. There are SEVERAL dealers who have a small to non-existant list. But don't get your hopes up. The reason they have no list is that they are charging over MSRP. From $3K-$15K over list. Avoid these dealers like to plague, and maybe they'll get the hint).

Confirmed with a local dealer Begining 11/01/01 E46 M3 Cabrio and Coupe come with an option for SMG II.

Here's a link to a BWM SMGII brochure. It's the 12th item down on the righthand column. Btw, this site has some great videos!
http://www.bmwclub.org.hk/index2.html

Anybody hear anything about a de-tuned SMGII for the US? I've seen some rumblings in another forum about that. Actually, I don't care as long as it can still do a 0-60 4.7+/-0.1 run. If not, it will be a 6-speed.

I need to know before I put my '02 order in soon.

- Kyle

I found out somewhere that the SMG II for the US is only going to get 5 out of the 6 levels. Basically level 6 is the one that gives you the Launch Control and the .08 second shifts. So with that in mind I dont think I am going to order the SMG when my number comes up. I wish it wasnt so cause it sounds like an awesome option.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Frank:
I read in a press release that the SMG II will be available for the E46 M3 in fall of 2001 as a 2002 model.

The only prices I have seen are rumors and/or european prices. Based on this, I think it's probably going to be around $2500 to $3500 option.

The Sequesntial M Gearbox (SMG) has an electronically actuated clutch with paddles on the steering wheel to switch gears (also has the traditional stickshift). What it does not have is the clutch on the floor since it is done by the gearbox. The benefit is that you have a real "manual" gearbox without the need to heel/toe...double clutch, etc. It's similar to the F1 system in the Ferrari. I have read, however, that the SMG II is almost twice as fast as the Ferrari in gearshifts.

Here is an article from the "BMW Magazine" (1/2001). "BMW Magazine" is the publication sent out to BMW owners.

http://www.m3forum.com/gallery/smg_BMWmag.jpg

If you have more info, please post them here!

[This message has been edited by Frank (edited 05-05-2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I just placed my order for a 2002 M3 with smgII transmission. It is for a November build, for delivery in late December. It is a $2,400 option.

Ray
crating@aol.com

I read somewhere the smg has some built in 'programs' one of which is the 'launch'. I think if you press and hold the button the revs lift to 3000 (i think they said it was the optimum starting speed)let go the button and it dumps the clutch, hey presto

I take delivery of my E46 M3 on Friday (was looking at it at the dealer yesterday), and it has SMG II, one of the first to arrive in the UK.. I was one of the first take delivery of the SMG 1 unit back in 98, and although it was handy, have to admit it was a big mistake.. so im taking a risk going for it again, but i believe they have fixed it this time.. if anyone wants pictures etc, just yell... the colour.. Estoril blue.. and it looks god damned sexy!

This might answer some of the questions we had regarding SMG II

Message Title: BMW response re: SMG II
Posted by: AKSteve on 2001-10-03 at 15:30:29
(posted from: Host: 181-203-237-24-cable.anchorageak.net IP: 24.237.203.181)

Message:


I'm with BMW of North America, LLC. I work with Tom
Salkowsky who has shared your inquiry with me. There are
some slight
differences between European and US versions of SMG.

There is a feature in Europe called the Launch control
function, or S6, which allows the driver to perform race style
starts. We
looked at the requirements for maintenance that come with this
feature, as
well as the restrictions on how often you can use it, and decided
that it
was not an appropriate feature for the U.S. market. We know
that some
customers will be disappointed, but after having tested the
system here in
the U.S. we were convinced that customers would be more
disappointed in the
long run with it than without it.

In terms of all the other functions, they are identical.
However, we have renamed one function "gradient assist". To
make it clearer
as to what it does, BMW NA calls it "hill start assist." This
function
allows the driver, on a steep incline, to apply the brake pedal and
pull
back one of the paddles, which will allow the car to NOT roll
backwards.
Then, once the driver releases the paddle, he has a few
seconds to move his
foot from the brake to the gas pedal and begin to move forward.

The SMG gearbox brings a very high level of technology to
our M owners. It also enables those who cannot drive an M3
with a clutch
pedal to order a MY 2002 M3 with SMG and experience the F1
style shifting
and the "automated" shelf shifting mode.

I hope this helps clarify SMG and its functions for you.

This message is to the guy working with Tom S. @ BMW NA. Your answer about the S6 mode is very confusing to me because you are implying that the Launch Mode & S6 are the same thing. This is very confusing, the guys that have SMG in Europe say that they could do without the Launch Control, but not with out the .008 or 80 millisecond gear changes which are only possible using the S6 mode. They act like Lauch Control is a different functiion than S6.

What all of want to know is will the S5 mode here in the USA be equivelent to the S6 mode in Europe with out Launch Control.

PS. Dammit I want 19inch Wheels, why the heck can't we have 19inch wheels. That just plain dumb. Give us the 343hp engine but take a simple wheel options away. This one I will protest. UNFAIR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ive added some pics of my SMG at:
http://www.muckypaws.net/e46

Matt also has a review of the SMG on his site. Interesting reading!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FrankRizzo:
It is ABSOLUTELY NOT true that the lists are unbelievable. I decided about a month ago that I wanted one (a 2002 M3 with SMG), and e-mailed every dealer in the US. I found a dealer, (no I won't tell you who), who had a VERY SHORT list. By his estimates, I'll have it in December, or January. So, If you live somewhere other than the west coast, and want an M3, call around! (Just a quick note about what's going on in case you ARE just now starting to make the rounds like I did.. There are SEVERAL dealers who have a small to non-existant list. But don't get your hopes up. The reason they have no list is that they are charging over MSRP. From $3K-$15K over list. Avoid these dealers like to plague, and maybe they'll get the hint).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frank mentioned about emailing every BMW Dealer in US but is there somewhere I can get a email addresses of them. Any Help??

Thanks

Aj

go to bmwusa.com.

Try this link....I used it myself.

islander
http://www.bmwlinks.com/Official_BMW_Dealers/

hi, for north america anyway, the dec. issue of Bimmer magazine should clear up any and all questions anyone might have in relation to the SMGII, it tells of every mode of operation and exactly how launch mode works and why it won't be available in the US, they also touched on the normal SMG for the 325 and 330 in a separate article, hope this helps, -Jake

Very interesting to read how many are ordering the SMG! Ordered mine without and have had it 2 weeks now. Yes, the clutch "clunks" a bit in the low gear transitions, but proper accelerator/clutch coordination can go a long way toward eliminating it. I have no regrets at having bought the 6-speed. Gear-shifting (with or without a clutch) is at the CORE of the driving experience. Can't imagine ordering SMG without at least having tried it out in a test drive. Given all the posts on issues with the manual gearbox/shifter/clutch, it will be interesting to see how the SMG meets expectations - especially after a year or so. Am willing to believe that this represents the future of street-level motorsport. Just not sure I want to be involved in the beta testing...

Being 54 and still in love with my 35-year-old Lotus probably contributes to this point of view as well.

How much is a reasonable price to pay when buying a 2002 BMW M3 with the auto trans? Should it cost around 60K before tax? For you M3 owners, what is a reasonable amount to deposit and how long is the wait for a M3 to be delivered? Thanks and Good Luck with your cars.

The SMG is *not* an automatic transmission. If you are expecting it to behave like an automatic, you will be very surprised and quite possibly disappointed. For more info on this, see http://www.leo.nutz.de/m3smgfaq.php3

Very good point dglasser, not an automatic at all. Check out leo's site fer sure.

Scott

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by arowanaly:
How much is a reasonable price to pay when buying a 2002 BMW M3 with the auto trans? Should it cost around 60K before tax? For you M3 owners, what is a reasonable amount to deposit and how long is the wait for a M3 to be delivered? Thanks and Good Luck with your cars.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now that I got my whine about SMG vs. automatic out of the way... http://m3forum.com/ubb/smile.gif

This is pretty market-specific, and I assuming you're talking about the U.S., but here's one piece of anecdotal evidence: I ordered my SMG-equipped M3 yesterday. I'm paying MSRP and was told to expect it in early April or possibly late March.

If you're willing to travel or pay someone a little for their slot (see the eBay auctions), you might get it sooner.

Also, it appears that 6-speed M3's are suddenly relatively plentiful. I was told that one of Seattle-area dealers had four in stock (two coupe, two convertible) as of last Friday.

Check out an owners opinion on the subject: www.leo.nutz.de (http://www.leo.nutz.de) -&gt; BMW -&gt; Owner Observations

A must read!

Leo
www.leo.nutz.de (http://www.leo.nutz.de)

Just got my SMG-equpiped E46 M3. It's fantastic. A bit wierd getting off the line and I haven't tried all of the various "modes" yet - the auto-mode is clunky and it is clearly NOT an automatic. I only have 89 miles on the car so far... The dealer I purchased the car from (in L.A.) has six 6-speed cars and nine used E46 M3s... and noted that they haven't sold a non-SMG car in five weeks. The used ones will expand further as most of the incoming SMGs are for people who already own M3s - and are trading them.

FYI -

DB

i picked up my M3 with SMG today and it just rocks! sure, it's a bit of a bumpy ride, and the gas mileage is horrific, but what a car! i know this is dumb, but somewhere i saw a M3 keychain that had a mini grill (like on the side intakes) on it, but i can't find it anywhere and BMW must not make it because they don't have it and haven't heard of it. if you know about it, please e-mail me! (barnes@lhsoc.org) thanx!

Which dealer is that? There are many new and used E46 M3's not because of SMG but because of the Tech-bust, "dot-gones" and those reports about the "noise" coming from the rear of the car.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by New SMG-boy:
... The dealer I purchased the car from (in L.A.) has six 6-speed cars and nine used E46 M3s... and noted that they haven't sold a non-SMG car in five weeks. The used ones will expand further as most of the incoming SMGs are for people who already own M3s - and are trading them.

FYI -

DB

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am breaking in my '02 M3 Coupe which I equipped with every option but the 19" wheels and sunroof. I'm military overseas, so that's probably why the 19" wheels were available here (didn't know they weren't in the US). I was also allowed to add GPS Nav without the sunroof, and get a color combo not offered in the US (Topaz Blue plus cinnamon leather...very nice). I also got a discount from MSRP...it's unconscionable what dealers are getting away with in the USA.

I've been learning the ins and outs of the SMG II, and comparing it with my buddy Rolf's (who has a sliver M3 equipped much the same as mine). He allowed me to *ahem* borrow the local BMW club copies of the GPS discs for the European continent, helped me find a mechanic who actually owns an M3, etc...and here are some of my personal conclusions on SMG that you may like.

1) My car shift just as fast as Rolf's. As far as I can tell, Europe's "S6" mode is the same as our "S5". My car shifts every bit as fast as Rolf's. In order to get the tranny to do that, however, you need to be driving very agressively. The car takes it's own sweet time in city traffic, no matter what mode you're in. This isn't scientific, I didn't get out my cesium clock to check variations from 0.8 seconds, but it's perceptibly the same.

2) The car WILL work pretty much like an automatic if you want it to...this was a big issue for my wife who cruises (at high speeds) but doesn't drive it hard in the hills like I do...or at least I will when it's properly broken in. If I'm able to get the same 1/4 mile time as Rolf, discussion over.

3) I've tried Rolf's Launch Control and it's not that impressive. I'm still breaking mine in, but I have no doubt I'll be able to accomplish exactly the same thing without the computer's help. He and I were both able to match (by our own stopwatches) with LC off or on. The only difference we noted was that the initial RPM of 3800 or so with LC on isn't there with it off. It's about like stepping on the brake and the gas at the same time in a normal manual car...your RPMs don't dip QUITE as much when you bolt from the line. With DSC on, the tires chirp just a bit when you upshift each time...with DSC off it took several tries to keep from spinning out ruthlessly at each start and shift. You really have to feather the throttle carefully...and it's faster if you do. DSC made it a bit slower (.5sec or so) for the 1/4 mile than we could accomplish on our own after lots of practice but it also was saving the tires bigtime! What I imagine is that with him in S6 and me in S5, we'll be neck and neck in the quarter. With his LC, he'll get out of the blocks a smidge faster, and finish the quarter mile about a wheel ahead. Of course I weigh 10 pounds more than Rolf, so that may make more difference. Will report back in the spring.

4) I believe I know why BMW left LC off US models. Over here, they will totally void the warranty, on the WHOLE CAR, if you exceed 40 LC operations in total. Ever. I don't think that would stand up in court in the USA. You blow the clutch by starting in LC 150 times in a month, and then go to the dealer who tells you "No way"...that makes some sense. But imagine doing that, paying for the clutch yourself, then bringing it back with a cracked block and them still saying "NO WAY"...they'd get sued, and some lilly-livered judge would back the owner. That is just an opinion, but living over here and chatting with the locals has taught me that Germans are totally unimpressed with the degree to which Americans expect not to be responsible for themselves. I wouldn't be surprised at all if that attitude went all the way to the boardroom in Munich.

Now to figure out new ways to persuade myself not to let the car over 106 mph on the autobahn...

Scott, drop me a line if you get a chance. I'm active duty Navy and looking to place an order under Military sales within the next month. I had a couple questions that maybe you could help with. The info regarding militry sales is pretty sparse. My E-mail is: miata_10am@yahoo.com Thanks in advance!!!

Ryan

Can you guys help me, I am writing from Canada. I work in States and live in CDN. Does anyone know when the SMG II is going to be realeased in Canada. I have being to BMW Canada and saw the car, and placed an order. But they say only when the press releases the car. Any hints

Ideas

I live in New Jersey, the East coast of the US for the foreigners. I called up a local (read: small) BMW dealership who has a SMG equipped convertible in yellow metallic, with the navigation screen, and the HK audio system for 60K asking price. That price is probobly negotiable considering they have 2 m3's and 2 m5's in and they are small and having biginventory is the death of a small business.

I don't know if anyone has already placed this link here, but here is a great article from R&T.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/RoadAndTrack/technical/0102_changing_shifting_patterns_p1.html

Yes the SMG II will is ready! I ahve ordered one in blue at Chris BMW. They gave me a good deal for the package I ordered! I can't wait until November. Until then, I will keep you informed once I get it.

P.S. I heard that the warranty will be voided if an SMG II launches their car more then 15 times. is this true?

Was this a delayed response??? I hope you don't mean Nov 2002....they'll have SMG III by the time you get your car.