hey guys. i have a few questions for you audio guru's.

1. can i get significantly better bass (as if from a decently powered sub) without getting a sub? are there any interior speakers (door, rear, etc) that i could get that can give me solid bass?

2. if there are speakers that can do that, will i need to get a seperate amp assuming i dont want to change my head unit?

3. how much wiring is needed to add an amp for the speakers?

thanks for your help guys.

hey guys. i have a few questions for you audio guru's.

1. can i get significantly better bass (as if from a decently powered sub) without getting a sub? are there any interior speakers (door, rear, etc) that i could get that can give me solid bass?

2. if there are speakers that can do that, will i need to get a seperate amp assuming i dont want to change my head unit?

3. how much wiring is needed to add an amp for the speakers?

thanks for your help guys.

... all your speakers in your Convertible are matched to the amp. If you want a better sounding bass you will need to replace your HK sub with a higher quality/capacity sub connected to a dedicated low pass aftermarket amp for a better and more efficient bass.

Other that this, you will not get what you really want without blowing some OEM speakers up. :nixweiss:

Generally the same answer as above:

1. can i get significantly better bass (as if from a decently powered sub) without getting a sub? are there any interior speakers (door, rear, etc) that i could get that can give me solid bass?

Generally, no, there are lots that will give you good midbass, but not subbass and even to get this kind of performance, IMO, you need to do some serious modding to the doors.

2. if there are speakers that can do that, will i need to get a seperate amp assuming i dont want to change my head unit?

Separate amp is necessary

3. how much wiring is needed to add an amp for the speakers?

Not much at all depending on the amplifier you choose

thanks for your help guys.

no problem at all.

well, im willing to switch out my speakers. could you define for me what "serious modding to the doors" entails? i dont mind doing anything behind the pannel, but i dont want the exterior appearence changed. im trying to avoid the look of a sub in the trunk. i feel like it looks cheap unless you go all out (multi sub, flashy amp, nicely designed box, etc). of corse, if worse comes to worse, ill just end up getting a trunk sub since i cant stand the lack of bass right now. :nixweiss:

well, im willing to switch out my speakers. could you define for me what "serious modding to the doors" entails? i dont mind doing anything behind the pannel, but i dont want the exterior appearence changed. im trying to avoid the look of a sub in the trunk. i feel like it looks cheap unless you go all out (multi sub, flashy amp, nicely designed box, etc). of corse, if worse comes to worse, ill just end up getting a trunk sub since i cant stand the lack of bass right now. :nixweiss:

Just add an aftermarket amp and subwoofer and you will be good to go.

well, im willing to switch out my speakers. could you define for me what "serious modding to the doors" entails? i dont mind doing anything behind the pannel, but i dont want the exterior appearence changed.

you can check out my sounddomain page to see what I started to to do my doors:

www.sounddomain.com/id/sq_e46_m3

To get any kind of bass out of the doors, you gotta cut them like that, then you have to deaden them. I've only done that first step. Even then, you are limited by the output of small 6.5" drivers.

im trying to avoid the look of a sub in the trunk. i feel like it looks cheap unless you go all out (multi sub, flashy amp, nicely designed box, etc). of corse, if worse comes to worse, ill just end up getting a trunk sub since i cant stand the lack of bass right now. :nixweiss:

You can make even a very simple sub install look very stealthy if you take some time and think about it a bit. I've done installs before where people can't even tell there's a system in the trunk unless you look for it. It's all in how you install it. Shouldn't look cheap if you go about it the right way.

If the HK door speakers are keeping you happy - there's no reason at all to change them - add a sub, it will be easier, cheaper and probably more satisfying.

Could you do me a favor and post a pic of what the trunk looks like, specifically both side "walls" and where the pass through to the arm rest is - if there is one? I've had a long time idea for that trunk that I've seen pulled off before and I want to see if it's possible - so if you had the time I think I could come up with something very stealthy - if you are interested of course.

rcurley, very very clean setup. we're running similar style equipments in our cars. Can you explain why you decided to mount the tweets that high up in the a-pillar? i'd assume even with them playing off axis (at least I think they are in your pic) and time aligned with the h700, having them that high up would still do funny things to your imaging.

are you running your 3-ways active with the h700? I'm thinking of doing a dyn 3-way with the midbass and tweets in a kick and the mid range in the doors but wanted to keep it active but I'm not sure if the h700 will support it...

btw, Alpine is replacing our 7996 this year with a flashier full color version. should be out by mid year or early fall.

ruurly, ill take pics when i get home tonight. it would be great to have a nice stealthy install. i want the kick, but not that ghetto look in the back of my car. plus, im gonna need the space for when i move all my shlt to college... the trunk is small enough in the cab to begin with...

btw, rcurly, ur car is fukcing sick...nice setup

rcurley, very very clean setup.

Thanks a lot, it's a work in progress.

we're running similar style equipments in our cars. Can you explain why you decided to mount the tweets that high up in the a-pillar? i'd assume even with them playing off axis (at least I think they are in your pic) and time aligned with the h700, having them that high up would still do funny things to your imaging.

Acutally, it's not TA'ed at all and it images fine. The bulk of your imaging information is taken from your midrange - not your tweeters. It's your path length differences that become most important in the area of midrange - that's why they are in the kicks - reduce pathlength. Direction is also very important with them - but not in the case of domes - domes have excellent off axis response, so it really doesn't even matter where you point them. Too often, people believe that car audio should work like home audio and they point speakers at themselves - generally the wrong idea.

Now the tweeters contribute to imaging, but it's more about intensity then it is PLD. So with them up high, you get excellent stage height, and you can trade off their intensity b/c the driver side is more off-axis then the pass (when sitting in the driver's seat). They are that high up in the a-pillar for two reasons - 1. the gauge cluster gets in the way - 2. the airbag gets in the way...so I compromised. They are still below eye level, although ifyou can get them a bit lower, they are further away from you, and that's a good thing.

So, what you get is a pretty high, stable stage that images pretty darn good. One of the key parts to this is having a midrange that plays very high - my midranges play up to 6.3kHz - that's key.

If you want more info on the matter, I can probably dig that up for you, but that's my understanding of why this works, I didn't develop it, just am working with it.

are you running your 3-ways active with the h700? I'm thinking of doing a dyn 3-way with the midbass and tweets in a kick and the mid range in the doors but wanted to keep it active but I'm not sure if the h700 will support it...

Yes it is all active. The only way this works is with no rear speakers:
Front 1: Tweeters
Front 2: Midranges
Rear: Midbasses
Sub: Subs

btw, Alpine is replacing our 7996 this year with a flashier full color version. should be out by mid year or early fall.

There's only two reasons I have the 7996 - a good cosmetic match to the H700 and it has an optical out, past that I couldn't care less about the DVD/MP3/etc features.

ruurly, ill take pics when i get home tonight. it would be great to have a nice stealthy install. i want the kick, but not that ghetto look in the back of my car. plus, im gonna need the space for when i move all my shlt to college... the trunk is small enough in the cab to begin with...


Yeah, I'd be interested in what it looks like.

If you want to see a stealthy install, look at what I did to my brother's 330Ci:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/164000-164999/164027_27_full.jpg

There are grilles (covered in black of course) that protect the equipment and painted fiberglass panels for daily use. With the panels in, it looks basically like this (I colored the equipment in with photoshop):

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/164000-164999/164027_22_full.jpg

That's about as steath as you can get. The only thing that gives it away is the contrast between the grille cloth and the carpet and the fact that the trunk floor has been raised 4". he still has full access to the spare and no-one, unless they know that car is the wiser that there's 2 amps and a 12" sub in there.

btw, rcurly, ur car is fukcing sick...nice setup

Thanks :thumbsup: I hope it's done soon, the subs should go in this weekend!

Thanks a lot, it's a work in progress.



Acutally, it's not TA'ed at all and it images fine. The bulk of your imaging information is taken from your midrange - not your tweeters. It's your path length differences that become most important in the area of midrange - that's why they are in the kicks - reduce pathlength. Direction is also very important with them - but not in the case of domes - domes have excellent off axis response, so it really doesn't even matter where you point them. Too often, people believe that car audio should work like home audio and they point speakers at themselves - generally the wrong idea.

Now the tweeters contribute to imaging, but it's more about intensity then it is PLD. So with them up high, you get excellent stage height, and you can trade off their intensity b/c the driver side is more off-axis then the pass (when sitting in the driver's seat). They are that high up in the a-pillar for two reasons - 1. the gauge cluster gets in the way - 2. the airbag gets in the way...so I compromised. They are still below eye level, although ifyou can get them a bit lower, they are further away from you, and that's a good thing.

So, what you get is a pretty high, stable stage that images pretty darn good. One of the key parts to this is having a midrange that plays very high - my midranges play up to 6.3kHz - that's key.

If you want more info on the matter, I can probably dig that up for you, but that's my understanding of why this works, I didn't develop it, just am working with it.



Yes it is all active. The only way this works is with no rear speakers:
Front 1: Tweeters
Front 2: Midranges
Rear: Midbasses
Sub: Subs



There's only two reasons I have the 7996 - a good cosmetic match to the H700 and it has an optical out, past that I couldn't care less about the DVD/MP3/etc features.

thanks for the answers. i would love to listen to your car once it's finish. i'm always looking fo ways to improve my system, but I can never get it quite the way I want it...just one of those guys

where did you find the display for your h700? alpine replaced the display with the blue one to match their 2005 line-up and I shoped around for a couple of months for the one you have with no availability everwhere--hense the reasoning for wanting the changing the 7996, I can't stand having so many different colors in my car.

(different color from yours)
http://www.pbase.com/sy0296/image/33610862.jpg

I saw the Alpine X5 @ CES with 2 of the F1 processors. Maybe I'll be able to run 2 h700 so I can run 3way active in the front but still have rear fill (gotta have surround for the dvd tracks). I really feel the mid-bass is too thin when the volume is cranked up. 3ways should fix that.

Do you install professionally? Your installs look very clean (esp. in your brother's car).

Sorry to the origninal poster for taking this a bit off topic, hope you don't mind.....

thanks for the answers. i would love to listen to your car once it's finish. i'm always looking fo ways to improve my system, but I can never get it quite the way I want it...just one of those guys

I never finish anything either, my hot rod has been "unfinished" for years. The only time it would be in so cal would be for Bimmerfest or for one of the IASCA shows at Image Dynamics.

where did you find the display for your h700? alpine replaced the display with the blue one to match their 2005 line-up and I shoped around for a couple of months for the one you have with no availability everwhere--hense the reasoning for wanting the changing the 7996, I can't stand having so many different colors in my car.

The H700 comes with the display I have - currently alpine sells the H701 which denotes the blue color scheme, so you can buy the controller and the processor separately. The H700 has it all in one box, the 701 family forces you to purchase two products...that was alpine's attempt to make it more economical for those using the indash screen units to control the H700 - the D300 and D900 to my knowledge can control the H70X using the onscreen menu.

(different color from yours)
http://www.pbase.com/sy0296/image/33610862.jpg

That looks nice, I like the location, that was the only other location I had considered, but b/c I don't have a screen in-dash, and won't I went with mine. It looks good up there.

I saw the Alpine X5 @ CES with 2 of the F1 processors. Maybe I'll be able to run 2 h700 so I can run 3way active in the front but still have rear fill (gotta have surround for the dvd tracks). I really feel the mid-bass is too thin when the volume is cranked up. 3ways should fix that.

Run the mids and tweets in kicks off of the passive, then run the midbass active in the doors - that's what I would do - solves your problem of channels, and saves you from needing another channel of amplification.

Do you install professionally? Your installs look very clean (esp. in your brother's car).

No I don't, but thanks for the compliment. The only install I've ever gotten paid to do was a super stealth box for a Civic Si (what I used to own).

here's a write-up on that box:
http://www.sounddomain.com/memberpage/164027/8