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View Full Version : *Need your opinions* - 2 small defects on the new car


Idz21
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:23:20 PM
Ok so here we go.

Defect 1: I noticed that there is a small piece of the front lip missing on the underside of the front bumper. I spoke with the Service Manager at the Perf Center and he said that if it were him he wouldn't get the bumper replaced because it's just another day that the M has to spend in the shop, and once you start replacing things, who knows what else can go wrong after that. (I did have them put a note on my file that they did see the damage before I even touched the car. So I can get it replace whenever I want, free of charge). I have a picture of the small piece missing at home and will post if you guys want to see it.


Defect 2: Half way up from SC to NJ, I got a dead pixel on my NAV screen. It doesn't really bother me, but I was wondering if you guys think I should get it replaced or not. I'm not sure how hard it is to pop one screen out and put in another, but if it's a procedure where too much sh!t needs to be unhooked in my dash, then I'll just live with it. Well, unless of course, more dead pixels start popping up. (I think that dead pixels on the BMW NAV is something that should be expected - I remember reading something on the forums about that. Thoughts?)


Well let me know what you guys think. I wasn't planning on replacing either the bumper or the NAV, but if it's a harmless procedure, then why not right?

NickyBlack
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:28:20 PM
If i were you i'd just return the whole car and ask for a new one. :banghead:

BigGrin
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:29:24 PM
both defects will drive you nuts over time imo - esp the nav pixel so if you can get them sorted I think I would for peace of mind.

As for it causing more probs if they do either, if they do their job properly that shouldn't be an issue.

RydeWitM3
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:31:15 PM
i would make sure they are aware of the problem so that you may get them fixed at any time, and just live with it, unless it really bothers you.

Rev8k
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:35:27 PM
Return that POS asap... :rofl2:

NickyBlack
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:39:20 PM
BMW has a 10 day no ask full refund exchange policy.

Idz21
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:45:19 PM
The two little things don't really bother me. I bought the car for its engine and handlig capabilities moreso than anything else. Plus if I were to ask for a new car, it'd take quite a bit of time for me to get my hands on it.

BigGrin
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:53:30 PM
I can appreciate that. Maybe you could get them both noted and an agreement to sort them when the car is next in anyway - like for a service.

Idz21
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:58:31 PM
I can appreciate that. Maybe you could get them both noted and an agreement to sort them when the car is next in anyway - like for a service.
Yep I was thinking that I could have both procedures done when I bring it in for the 1,200, but I would rather not have people fiddling around inside my car and inside the dash replacing the nav. I got a valuable interior to protect. (I'm buying the seat covers for when I bring it in for service so I don't get any grease all over my joint)

luxautodetail
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 08:59:50 PM
Pete as for the bumper. Don't worry about it...especially if it's on the underside. As for the NAV, if the pixels don't come on after the screen warms up. Then yes, go and replace it under warranty.

Doctor Love
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:14:16 PM
If the bumper issue isn't visible then I wouldn't bother, but with the nav I'd definitely have it replaced.

DarkVader
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:15:50 PM
BMW has a 10 day no ask full refund exchange policy.

It is funny you say that because I got my dealership to take back my firts M after 8 months. Gave me all my money back plus a 1000 of a new one. They couldn't stand me bitching I guess.

e36M3r
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:24:22 PM
I wouldn't have them digging into my dash for a dead pixel. Your next one will probably have one also, so might as well have the pixel you know.

As for the underside of the front bumper... same thing... I'd prefer the factory techs were the last guys to touch it, rather than my local dealer. And it is cosmetic and under the car...

You'll keep the car near perfect for a long time, but it is a car. Enjoy it and don't worry too much.

MikeR
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:25:34 PM
These two defects would bother me also. Definetly get the Nav screen fixed. If you catch yourself thinking about the crack, then it bothers you and get it fixed.

Mike

ArtM3
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:26:11 PM
live with the lip, unless it starts to grow

the screen pixels, let it burn in for a couple of weeks, if it's still out, replace it

BMW F1
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:33:21 PM
Idz, at the end of the day you have paid BIG BLING for this car. If you wanted a car with the issues you have, you would have saved the cash and bought a 2nd hand jobbie. The lip should be easy enough to fix, in and out, get them to order it so when you do in for your 1200Mile service, they can do that at the same time.

Re the Nav system, get that done too. If its missing one pixel in the first day of ownership it might only get worse as time goes on.

Get these things fixed NOW while the issues are fresh in ppl's minds as in the guy at the Peformance Delivery Centre. Trust me, if these dont get fixed now and you do want to change them later, you will most certainly have an uphill battle.

All the best and keep us in the loop.
Adam.

mickstobes
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:34:36 PM
Get them both fixed now, while the car is still new. The more little problems like this add up, the crappier it becomes.

Heck, you paid good money for the car and you should expect it to be nothing less than perfect when you get it.

capirest
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:38:48 PM
Little things like that will bother the hell at of me!!!

Just get the dealer to look at both the problems & always get them to note it for reference later.

Good luck...

Gladius
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:43:21 PM
Or, wait a while...your warranty will last a good number of years...see if more pixels fail and then get it replaced. Otherwise they'll be pulling the dash apart twice!

E90_GEN
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 09:45:28 PM
Ok so here we go.

Defect 1: I noticed that there is a small piece of the front lip missing on the underside of the front bumper. I spoke with the Service Manager at the Perf Center and he said that if it were him he wouldn't get the bumper replaced because it's just another day that the M has to spend in the shop, and once you start replacing things, who knows what else can go wrong after that. (I did have them put a note on my file that they did see the damage before I even touched the car. So I can get it replace whenever I want, free of charge). I have a picture of the small piece missing at home and will post if you guys want to see it.


Defect 2: Half way up from SC to NJ, I got a dead pixel on my NAV screen. It doesn't really bother me, but I was wondering if you guys think I should get it replaced or not. I'm not sure how hard it is to pop one screen out and put in another, but if it's a procedure where too much sh!t needs to be unhooked in my dash, then I'll just live with it. Well, unless of course, more dead pixels start popping up. (I think that dead pixels on the BMW NAV is something that should be expected - I remember reading something on the forums about that. Thoughts?)


Well let me know what you guys think. I wasn't planning on replacing either the bumper or the NAV, but if it's a harmless procedure, then why not right?

Of course you have to have it changed. Why should you not, you paid 60K for this car and you have every right to get it the way it should come. Your just like me. Im always like ohh, that's ok. Or this doesn't botter me. But sometimes you have to really say, well look i am paying them monthly so much. You pay enough to buy 3 mid size car for only one car every month, at least they can provide you a good reliable car. Go change it and make sure you tell them you don't want to come back so everything goes fine. Us BMW drivers(not me yet), are much better than Mercedes drivers in regards to patience. These things that happen to Mercedes guys, they go there and **** the dealer owner analy. Im serious. These things happen to all the cars but the way the Mercedes drivers approach it teaches the dealer to get it right next time.

Why do these errors even accor: Ok, well when these BMW guys are working on these cars, because they have seen so many of them every day, they are kind of tired of them. After a while they don't even consider these cars as luxury sport expensive cars. They hae some sort of right to do it too. They have seen it that they are like ehhh another BMW M3 or another CSL. They don't know, thought that us consumers, this is the car that we really love and have been waiting for, for a long time. They drive the cars bad and sometimes make mistakes like above and they think like oh big deal so what but they don't know how important this car is to us.

MattMan
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 10:51:04 PM
1. the piece of the lip:
Can you post the location/piece? There is a cover/part underneath that is actually functional. (near the temp sensor) that blocks excess water from hitting wiring.

2. burnt pixel:
BMM may have a pixel policy in which 1 or a few is acceptable according to them. I thought I read this somewhere. I know major laptop manufacturers have a policy like this (deals with number of bad pixels and proximity to each)

Idz21
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 10:55:01 PM
Thanks for the input guys. I don't really know why, but the stuff doesn't really bother me. If it did I would have posted did as soon as I got hom Friday night.

I really don't want the dealer techs digging around in my dash replacing my nav, and the little piece that's missing on the lip is just something that might catch some damage evenutally anyway. Rocks kicking up, a possibility of the lip getting caugh up when going up a ramp or so. The Technical Service Manager advised me that if it were him he would replace the bumper. (Manager from the Perf Center. Has been working on BMWs since he was 15. I wouldn't expect him to BS me like some techs at dealerships, so I trusted his advice.)

Like someone said my warranty will be there for a long time, and what I'm going to do is have my service rep take a look at both things and have him document it that those defects are there. This way if that does start bothering me for some reason I'll get it replace. (The funny thing on the nav pixel is that when the arrow is pointing to the Noth, it points DIRECTLY at the dead pixel :D )

Idz21
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 10:57:46 PM
Here's a picture of the little piece missing on the underside of the lip/bumper:

FooGoo
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 11:09:39 PM
Here's a picture of the little piece missing on the underside of the lip/bumper:

Hmmm, does that look amplified because of the picture? Cause otherwise, I think that should be replaced.

Idz, I've followed your purchase story, and then the recent trip to SC, and I must say, for the amount of money you're paying for this fully-loaded car, you have a right to expect things to be flawless, at least for a while. It's too early for stuff like this to show up, and I agree with the majority who say you should get them taken care of. The more things add up over time, the more time the car will spend at the dealer bay. My opinion is, do this in time for the 1200 mile service.

Good luck with whatever you decide. :thumbsup:

Divexxtreme
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 11:16:45 PM
I probably wouldn't mess with the bumper either, but that's just me. If you were to pursue it, you'd have every right too.

The Nav I'd definitely get fixed. That missing pixel would annoy me everytime I looked at it.:D

E46M3Rod
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 11:18:00 PM
Idz,

Even if you feel you can live with these defects....get something out of it at least.

Tell them for the trouble they have caused you....at least give you a free jacket and wheel locks.

I always put it to them this way to the dealer....."ummm....if you were buying a 60K car and it had these defects....would you be happy about them?".

I have not heard any one say..."yes". They always say...they understand my feelings.

So the way I look at it....try and get something out of it even if you can live with it.

Good luck.

Idz21
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 11:36:09 PM
Idz,

Even if you feel you can live with these defects....get something out of it at least.

Tell them for the trouble they have caused you....at least give you a free jacket and wheel locks.

I always put it to them this way to the dealer....."ummm....if you were buying a 60K car and it had these defects....would you be happy about them?".

I have not heard any one say..."yes". They always say...they understand my feelings.

So the way I look at it....try and get something out of it even if you can live with it.

Good luck.
hmm I'll try working that angle. I did want to get wheel locks and seat covers. When I talk to my service advisor I'll see what his opinion is on the two parts. He's a friend of a friend, and I've heard very good things about him.

I would have a problem replacing the nav if someone could tell me what the procedure is. If it's something where they're ripping out a bunch of ****, then I'd rather live with it until other dead pixels arise.


btw the size of the little missing piece on the under-lip is about 1/8ths of an inch deep and approx 3/16ths of an inch wide.

e36M3r
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 11:56:01 PM
You were doing really well, in ignoring the "defects" keep going man...

1/8th x 3/16th, out of site and under the car... and all these guys posting "you must get it fixed" - man, I can't read this stuff. These are cars and all these whiners around here, probable don't even have a decent car...

So far Idz, you've remained above the fray (except for posting this to begin with) You got a great car man, lets all be reasonable. (1/8th x 3/16th :soapbox: I'm with you man, when no whining is taking place :beer: )



hmm I'll try working that angle. I did want to get wheel locks and seat covers. When I talk to my service advisor I'll see what his opinion is on the two parts. He's a friend of a friend, and I've heard very good things about him.

I would have a problem replacing the nav if someone could tell me what the procedure is. If it's something where they're ripping out a bunch of ****, then I'd rather live with it until other dead pixels arise.


btw the size of the little missing piece on the under-lip is about 1/8ths of an inch deep and approx 3/16ths of an inch wide.

Idz21
Wed, Jan-26-2005, 11:57:57 PM
You were doing really well, in ignoring the "defects" keep going man...

1/8th x 3/16th, out of site and under the car... and all these guys posting "you must get it fixed" - man, I can't read this stuff. These are cars and all these whiners around here, probable don't even have a decent car...

So far Idz, you've remained above the fray (except for posting this to begin with) You got a great car man, lets all be reasonable. (1/8th x 3/16th :soapbox: )
I'm pretty sure all those who responded have M3s of their own. Also I'll try to get correct measurements of the little missing piece once I can finally move my car out of the garage.

Antwerp
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 12:01:40 AM
You must get this stuff corrected! :D

Drifter
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 03:18:06 AM
get a front lip to make you happy and something fresh also just tell them to replace the nav free.

SOURCE1064
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 03:59:01 AM
That stuff would drive me nuts. My car would have been in the shop ASAP. I'm going nuts because I am waiting till the spring to fix my car from when some guy rear ended me and I hate seeing it everyday.

Sirius
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 06:22:14 AM
Chances are over time you're going to scrap your front bumper cover on something anyways. Wait until then for that.

As for the nav unit, have it replaced.

ARH1956
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 07:34:50 AM
Be careful about waiting on the bumper, if you want it fixed. I bought a new motorcycle a while back & the tank was slightly dented when you looked closely. The dealer said he'd order a new tank, blah, blah. A week later some uninsured nut in a heap rear ended me damaging the rear fender & tail light then took off. As the fender was on the tire I couldn't pursue him. I took it back to the dealer for the repairs on my dime since it wouldn't reach my deductible & they gave an estimate including the tank since it was dented "in the wreck". It ended up being a nightmare. I eventually contacted Yamaha USA & they sent a tank to me directly & I replaced it. The dealer lost a lot of business over it that & bankrupted 2 years later. The moral is, "Dealers tend to "forget" promises to fix these issues 2 minutes after you leave the lot." I would suggest you immediately call & have them order the replacement piece & have it painted for you. Then you can have it replaced at your convenience.
Oh, I'd get the NAV replaced as well. They should have no problem with this, I'm pretty sure it doesn't involve dash removal, just a lot of trim pieces.
Good luck.

Idz21
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 12:39:25 PM
Chances are over time you're going to scrap your front bumper cover on something anyways. Wait until then for that.

As for the nav unit, have it replaced.
You think if I wait around until I get more scrapes on the front bumper (not that I'm planning on getting them), they will still replace it free-of-charge?

Like the other gentleman said, it's possible that they'll "magically" forget that it was going to be replaced anyway, and in this case they might tell me that they won't replace it free-of-charge anymore because there are other nicks on it.

nrubenstein
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 03:15:26 PM
in all seriousness, try gently massaging the dead pixel. sometimes a little bit of pressure applied on an LCD will fix stuck/dead pixel issues.

Idz21
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 04:43:53 PM
in all seriousness, try gently massaging the dead pixel. sometimes a little bit of pressure applied on an LCD will fix stuck/dead pixel issues.
good call. I'll try that out. I'll let the guys that I'm going to meet up with check out the little crack on the lip this Sunday when we head out to the IKEA meet in Paramus, NJ, and see what they say.

rcurley55
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 08:30:24 PM
replacing the nav doesn't require them to "tear into the dash" - it's really not that big of a deal, I've had my dash apart plenty of times - if it didn't magically come back, I'd pursue it at the 1200 mile check up. The bumper...well, that's hard to say. Could you take a photo of it was a better reference point? It's impossible to tell, from where I sit, if that is even visible from walking around the car.

If you have to get in some contorted position to see it, don't even bother - a few reasons why....

If they have to repaint a new bumper for you, you won't get a perfect match on the finish, nor will the clear coats be of the same quality. Second, there's always a problem with them having the car in the shop - other things can happen to the car.

So I'd weigh your options pretty heavily before you go out and get the bumper done.

Idz21
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 08:47:32 PM
replacing the nav doesn't require them to "tear into the dash" - it's really not that big of a deal, I've had my dash apart plenty of times - if it didn't magically come back, I'd pursue it at the 1200 mile check up. The bumper...well, that's hard to say. Could you take a photo of it was a better reference point? It's impossible to tell, from where I sit, if that is even visible from walking around the car.

If you have to get in some contorted position to see it, don't even bother - a few reasons why....

If they have to repaint a new bumper for you, you won't get a perfect match on the finish, nor will the clear coats be of the same quality. Second, there's always a problem with them having the car in the shop - other things can happen to the car.

So I'd weigh your options pretty heavily before you go out and get the bumper done.

thanks for clarying the NAV replacement procedure. I'll put a call in to my Service Consultant and let him know that I'll need the NAV replaced if the pixel doesn't go away.

In order to see the little missing piece on the bumper I had to use a mirror to actually look underneath the car. It's not visible to the naked eye unless you lay on your back and look under the car. I agree with you that other things might happen while the car is at the shop.

However, with color matching of the bumper etc... The bumpers actually come painted from the factory. They are not painted on the car. There are two different locations where the body of the car is manufactured and painted, and another for the bumpers/side skirts etcc. So these items are painted separately, and BMW has a very intricate process to make sure the color is always the same, so I'm not concerned with getting the perfect color-match, because I know I would had I elected to get it replaced.

Rev8k
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 09:02:12 PM
In order to see the little missing piece on the bumper I had to use a mirror to actually look underneath the car.


If I used a mirror to look underneath the car I'm sure I'd want to replace a lot more than a bumper. :rofl2:

rcurley55
Thu, Jan-27-2005, 10:36:31 PM
In order to see the little missing piece on the bumper I had to use a mirror to actually look underneath the car. It's not visible to the naked eye unless you lay on your back and look under the car. I agree with you that other things might happen while the car is at the shop.

If that's the case, I think you would be insane to try to get it fixed. The risks FAR FAR outweigh any benefit IMO (and this is coming from someone who's very particular {read: anal} about his cars and owns a few show cars of his own).

Just enjoy the car...

A3r0pusH
Fri, Jan-28-2005, 02:16:14 AM
i would get the nav fixed atleast.......i go by the nascar dropping a cylinder....once 1 goes the rest are ready to follow so i would just get it fixed....

killer junior
Fri, Jan-28-2005, 02:32:25 AM
replacing the nav doesn't require them to "tear into the dash" - it's really not that big of a deal, I've had my dash apart plenty of times - if it didn't magically come back, I'd pursue it at the 1200 mile check up. The bumper...well, that's hard to say. Could you take a photo of it was a better reference point? It's impossible to tell, from where I sit, if that is even visible from walking around the car.


True that. Even though I'm still driving my mere mortal 325i, I've taken my dash apart numerous time on my own. It's really not as painful as you would think. ;)

FlyinM3
Fri, Jan-28-2005, 05:23:22 AM
i have had a bad pixel from day1 as well and have lived with it for the past 2 years for same anal reasons of the stealer possibly screwing something up inside the car....

i'll wait it out until a few days before the warranty is up and then get it replaced...

Neon01
Fri, Jan-28-2005, 02:54:23 PM
Can't help you on the chip in the bumper - I have no idea how bad it looks. Personally if I couldn't see if unless I got under the car, I wouldn't bother. Who knows, maybe they won't fit the new bumper on correctly, and that's something that actually does bother me.

I'll preface my next suggestion by saying I'm (evidently) not like most BMW owners in that I don't care as much about absolute perfection. From some of the replies to this post, I can see why BMW is given all kinds of crap for defects that don't even plague statistically significant samples of cars. It's a machine, and with the complexity of all those special gizmos and such, things are going to fail, regardless of the badge on the hood. I only say these things because I think its a shame that BMW is held to a much different yardstick than American cars, or even Japanese cars.

Re the pixel in the LCD, I can tell you this: I've had a bad pixel in my Mag LCD PC monitor since I bought it 2-3 years ago, but it's never bothered me. In fact, maybe their replacement policy isn't as lenient as BMW, because they claim that up to 8 dead pixels (even on arrival, before use) won't warrant a replacement unit. My attititude is: what's worse?

1. 1 consistantly green pixel in your LCD

2. The downtime for having the part replaced, the possible damage that a tech could cause (sad reality, I know), and the potential to receive a similarly defective replacement part

Don't get me wrong, they owe it to you, I'm not trying to say differently. Maybe I'm just lazy?... :nixweiss:

///Motorsport3 kID
Fri, Jan-28-2005, 04:31:20 PM
i absolutly would get that bumper fixed immeadiatley, before something else happens to it and BMWUSA decides they dont want to cover it. knowing our dealers, they'll try to get out of it one way or another. same thing with the nav. at the very least, get the pixel documented so that if you decide to get it fixed, its already a known problem and they cant give you any shlt for it.

Idz21
Fri, Jan-28-2005, 04:43:20 PM
Can't help you on the chip in the bumper - I have no idea how bad it looks. Personally if I couldn't see if unless I got under the car, I wouldn't bother. Who knows, maybe they won't fit the new bumper on correctly, and that's something that actually does bother me.

I'll preface my next suggestion by saying I'm (evidently) not like most BMW owners in that I don't care as much about absolute perfection. From some of the replies to this post, I can see why BMW is given all kinds of crap for defects that don't even plague statistically significant samples of cars. It's a machine, and with the complexity of all those special gizmos and such, things are going to fail, regardless of the badge on the hood. I only say these things because I think its a shame that BMW is held to a much different yardstick than American cars, or even Japanese cars.

Re the pixel in the LCD, I can tell you this: I've had a bad pixel in my Mag LCD PC monitor since I bought it 2-3 years ago, but it's never bothered me. In fact, maybe their replacement policy isn't as lenient as BMW, because they claim that up to 8 dead pixels (even on arrival, before use) won't warrant a replacement unit. My attititude is: what's worse?

1. 1 consistantly green pixel in your LCD

2. The downtime for having the part replaced, the possible damage that a tech could cause (sad reality, I know), and the potential to receive a similarly defective replacement part

Don't get me wrong, they owe it to you, I'm not trying to say differently. Maybe I'm just lazy?... :nixweiss:
Yea like I was saying before, for some reason those little defects don't really bother me. I'll definitely make sure to have it documented on my file in case something gets progressively worse.

Your point #2 is why I even posted this quesiton here. I really don't want to have anyone fiddling around with my car when it's not "necessary," because like you said, other things might magically start braking.

allkingz
Fri, Jan-28-2005, 09:03:13 PM
I wouldn't ask to have the bumper replaced, but I would ask for the Nav to be replaced.

Then again, nothing attracts nicks, dings, and scratches like a perfect car, so these minor defects may ward off the evil defect spirits.