Well I am very happy to report that the covers have just been pulled off the engine compartment of the new E90 M3 now due in 2006. The new E90 M3 was caught testing around the world famous Nurburgring late last month with a big thumping V8 under its hood. The new configuration is rumored to output the Magical Figures of 300Kw or 402HP in the old money.

Sources also confirm that the M3 will stay as a RWD, speed limited to 250Km/h / 155MPH and driven thru the current M5's new 7 Speed SMGIII box and wait for it............. a totally reworked Six Speed Manual. Meaning the debate between the SMG Boys and the Manual Lads can and will continue for years to come.

The M3 with its V8 engine (size still unconfirmed) is rumored to hit the 60/100 mark in under 5 putting it firmly in the sites of the AMG and Porsche crowd. To add further stability to the car, the engine has now been set back further in the frame to provide the car with a mid engine feel effectively giving better over all weight distribution. There is also talk of tweaking certain parts of the new E90 M3 with 20 inch rims as standard, active steering, a meatier brake package and active roll stability which will work in well with DSC, TC & LC.

Sounds like BMW MSport have certainly answered the call that we had hoped, this is certainly the start of a massive future for the new E90 M3.

Trust me when I say............... there is more to come.

Sweet!

Sounds very exciting! I am just hoping the appearance will not be disappointing. The M5 is a great car but I am still not used to the look yet...

Can't wait!

very nice can't wait to see the actual e90 m3

hmm...interesting considering the past thread on how the M3 was not going to have a v8

If it looks as good as the e46, sign me up!

-Awais

Not bad at all. Now let's hope it's not ugly.

hmm...interesting considering the past thread on how the M3 was not going to have a v8

My thoughts exactly. None of this is credible anymore until we see it.

-Daver

Where are you getting all this info from?

The M3 with its V8 engine (size still unconfirmed) is rumored to hit the 60/100 mark in under 5 putting it firmly in the sites of the AMG and Porsche crowd.

Eh ... which AMG and Porsche crowd? The year 1999 crowd? Or the year 2000? 0-60 in under 5, give me a break, stop being so pathetic.

The new 997 can do low 4s and 12 second 1/4 miles, and that's not neven the 997s. The C51 (not even a Z06) is evern faster. AMG? ROFL, don't kid yourself. Unless that M can do 0-60 in 4 seconds or less and pack more torque than a tank, you can't catch an AMG.

Well I am very happy to report that the covers have just been pulled off the engine compartment of the new E90 M3 now due in 2006. The new E90 M3 was caught testing around the world famous Nurburgring late last month with a big thumping V8 under its hood. The new configuration is rumored to output the Magical Figures of 300Kw or 402HP in the old money.

Sources also confirm that the M3 will stay as a RWD, speed limited to 250Km/h / 155MPH and driven thru the current M5's new 7 Speed SMGIII box and wait for it............. a totally reworked Six Speed Manual. Meaning the debate between the SMG Boys and the Manual Lads can and will continue for years to come.

The M3 with its V8 engine (size still unconfirmed) is rumored to hit the 60/100 mark in under 5 putting it firmly in the sites of the AMG and Porsche crowd. To add further stability to the car, the engine has now been set back further in the frame to provide the car with a mid engine feel effectively giving better over all weight distribution. There is also talk of tweaking certain parts of the new E90 M3 with 20 inch rims as standard, active steering, a meatier brake package and active roll stability which will work in well with DSC, TC & LC.

Sounds like BMW MSport have certainly answered the call that we had hoped, this is certainly the start of a massive future for the new E90 M3.

Trust me when I say............... there is more to come.

Cite your sources.

sources ... or teh ban! :chair:

Cite your sources.

It was January Edition of Motor magazine, i also read the same article so thats how i know.

Eh ... which AMG and Porsche crowd? The year 1999 crowd? Or the year 2000? 0-60 in under 5, give me a break, stop being so pathetic.

The new 997 can do low 4s and 12 second 1/4 miles, and that's not neven the 997s. The C51 (not even a Z06) is evern faster. AMG? ROFL, don't kid yourself. Unless that M can do 0-60 in 4 seconds or less and pack more torque than a tank, you can't catch an AMG.

The 997 has 239kw/320hp and 997s has 261kw/355hp so if the M3 gets 300kw/400hp it shouldn't be as outragous as you claim even considering a likely weight increase. It will easily beat the current C55/CLK55/SLK55 some of which will be changed about the same time the M3 shows up, stats on those are not really known yet but they will also get a weight increase being a mercedes.

The 997 has 239kw/320hp and 997s has 261kw/355hp so if the M3 gets 300kw/400hp it shouldn't be as outragous as you claim even considering a likely weight increase. It will easily beat the current C55/CLK55/SLK55 some of which will be changed about the same time the M3 shows up, stats on those are not really known yet but they will also get a weight increase being a mercedes.

Easily beat the current C55/CLK55/SLK55? I'm not going to argue with you right now, I'll let the actual comparisons speak for themselves when they come out.

Its not even out yet...and 2006....its too premature....and especially with a new engine design....I believe the current s54 engine was introduced in 2000 or 2001...and still they have issues....so..i take it R&D will start on a new engine after a year or so...6 years ...thats just too soon...lets expect it in 2007...as a 2008 model...BMW is too involved in redesigning their other models that a 2007 M3 is just too early...ALSO, you have to see the new 3 to expect the foundation for the M3..ewwwwww.

and in order to compete with the big jerry mobiles....0-60 must be around 4 to 4.3 seconds....also, watch a sticker price JUMP....60K...more like 75K...my expectations...

Where are you getting all this info from?


ARSE!!!

997 beats the C6 Vett in the 1/4 by a few hundreds of a sec...they were both in the 12's....

Take the Vett for an example... It's about 3300 pounds with a 400hp engine..
Next gen M would easily out weight the current ones...now do the math.

dammit, if they make the E90 even heavier than the E46 I will be pi$$ed. They need to try and at least get it back down to E36 weight levels.

wonder how much price increase this 8 cyl will bring

. . . and the new V8 will fit in our engine bay should you get the wild hair to make that mod. I'm sure it won't be plug and play though. "Special" tools will no doubt be required.

The new M3 sounds pretty sweet. Like everyone said, we will need to see what it looks like and with hold our verdict until the final product arrives. All I can say is that BMW better get their act together when it comes to reliability. I won't put up with the same crap we have now.

As for the performance bar constantly being raised, the new M3 should be very competitive in it's class. That means C55, CLK55, Audi S4, Audi RS4, and the Porsche 911 (Normal version). I'm sure the price will be higher as well with the frickin Euro as high as it is. Now they just have to keep the weight down and it will be a super car.

20in wheels standard? Can't get much racing rubber in that size. Anyone have any idea of the lightest 20in wheels?

I guess I'll wait until I see pics, before I start saving for the next generation......

The information as stated before has come directly from a very good mag here called Motor. Saying this, there is no need for a ban or anything like that. We here in Australia might have more accessibility to this information as we have closer links to the UK car market.

This information has come DIRECTLY from the testing grounds in Europe and is as reported a E90 M3 V8, displacement yet to be confirmed. 20" Rims will be standard issue although I would say it would be more than likely to be 19" rims. Please feel free to read between the lines, you as well as anyone else does, knows that a lot of these "so called CONCRETE" stats will changed closer to the release date.

I believe it is always good to have this information up front and as soon as possible. When I find out about these things, I would like to keep this forum up to date before any of the other forums find out about it.

So please keep reading and please keep your ear to the ground to report anything that might have to do with the new M. ... All the best.

Not bad at all. Now let's hope it's not ugly.

My concerns exactly.. If the car doesn't look as hideous as the new 3 series will (spy pics) I'll definately purchase it.

I hope..

I don't know why everyone is assuming the car will be a total pig. Sure, it will be bigger and have a larger engine, but remember, the e90 m5 isn't too much heavier than the old e39 and its engine is only marginally heavier despite the 2 extra cylendars(e90 v10 weighs 529lbs - ~2lbs heavier than the s62 v8). I have a feeling the car will probably be slightly heavier, but if the e39/90 comparison (e90 m5 4034lbs (cite: sports car magazine) e39 m5 4024lbs (cite: edmunds.com)) is anything to go by, not by much.
-Dave

I think with every new generation ppl do become concerned in regards to the looks. Up until now, we have only really seen pictures in mags or photochop images. I think once ppl see the new M it will really grow on them, especially the numbers that it will crunch out.

I think the weight will be kept down. I am seeing some carbon fiber in the new 330. Dash appointments, very cool and a sign of more use of light weight material. The M3 in a V8 will be an alloy sleved engine and the weight should be no more the the cast I6. I think they may actually get the weight down a little. If the HP is up and the weight is down it will be one sweet performing car. To me this is just logic. These are my thoughs only. But the M3 is BMW's performance car so it makes sense in that respect.

Honestly 400 hp is not enought, bmw is going to have to have at least 450 to be ahead of the crowd, unless there going to make a CSL version with at least 460

I don't know why everyone is assuming the car will be a total pig. Sure, it will be bigger and have a larger engine, but remember, the e90 m5 isn't too much heavier than the old e39 and its engine is only marginally heavier despite the 2 extra cylendars(e90 v10 weighs 529lbs - ~2lbs heavier than the s62 v8). I have a feeling the car will probably be slightly heavier, but if the e39/90 comparison (e90 m5 4034lbs (cite: sports car magazine) e39 m5 4024lbs (cite: edmunds.com)) is anything to go by, not by much.
-Dave

It needs to lose weight from the current E46 to not be considered a pig. The E46 M3 is already too heavy. I highly doubt it will be lighter than the E46 though; all the crap they are putting into these new cars adds up.

The 3 series (including M line) is slowly but surely turning into a 2dr 5 series. :banghead:

Honestly 400 hp is not enought, bmw is going to have to have at least 450 to be ahead of the crowd, unless there going to make a CSL version with at least 460

Agreed!

400 HP in today's market puts it mid-pack at best among it's peers, IMO, given how many cars out there can spank the current M3.

Two years out things won't look even that good given current trends. 450 doesn't sound unreasonable at all.

JT

///meric, please have a read of the New CSL post by myself.....

The only way the E90 M3 is going to keep up:
V8, light weight pistons, cam, lifters, and valves. Twin turbo, 600HP. Weights less than E46 M3. 0-60 in under 4 seconds, 1/4 mile in low 11 to high 10 second mark. Priced under $50,000 MSRP (base).

Impossible? Performance vs performance, the 2004 SVT Cobra can already do this, with thousands less.

STFU! I said 'PERFORMANCE VS PERFORMANCE'.

so does a Evolution 8 MR.

One thing about companies like BMW and AMG, they will never sell a lesser car that will out do their big guns even though the car may be totally different in style and size. There is NO WAY IMO that BMW will ever put more cubes in an M3 over an M4, M5, M6 etc etc, it just wouldnt make good business sense in their eyes.

It would be like AMG giving more grunt to the C55 than the E55, there is just no basis for it. One thing is for sure, the BMW boys have NOT stated the displacement size and 400HP I would suggest is a good guess. I would assume also there will be massive gains in power to weight ratios too.

Hey Kev what are the specs on that new SVT Cobra?

I think the build quality will be lifted on this model to. With outstanding issues all over the place with the current E46, BMW should have learnt from this. Lets hope they have.

now if we could all just hold hands and pray :bow: that the new M3 design doesn't get F&*K%D!

Im totally sure it wont agree with everyones taste until then can go and look at it for themselves at an upcoming motorshow near you or the showroom floor. I just hope the build quality and current issues with the E46 are Ironed out for good.

im very excited about the next gen M. I love all the new designs so im not worried one bit. Im just worried about the price tag. I remember a year ago we heard 400hp and it was nuts but in such a short time, 400 dosent seem that much =/

Yup new more, more money required, that one is a total given, well put.....

yada yada, just wait and see

i wonder what the power of all the other guys will be in 06. were comparing it to cars of today but in 06 the vette, AMG, and porche will all be faster too.

Yup, I think the E90 M3 will be ahead of many competitors but with the current hp wars, it won't be long before the others catch up. The product cycle of cars seems to be shortening. And who can complain? I remember 20 years ago that the highest performing cars had 200-300 hp. Now the E46 M3 can outrun a Ferrari Testarossa.

Yes Im sure that BMW have put this into their consideration bible hence the reason they may have not published what the displacement of the engine will be.

I think 2006 is too early, at least 2007, more likely 2008? But more importantly, what about the price? A V8/400HP is nice, but if it will cost $75K, I'll get the 997 Carrera S instead.

Well BMW are talking about the new E90 being introduced mid next year, already a lot of pictures out about this. BMW says that they will introduce the M approx one year later would should land it around Q2 2006 for Delivery Q3 - Q4 2006 but I hear what you are saying, maybe more like Q1 2007 but earlier would be better. Maybe they will introduce the new M in Q3 for a 2007 Model Build for Q4 Delivery. As the dates approach, we will know more.

Regarding price, not sure the new M will be up that high. Certainly will be a jump (knowing BMW) from the current E46 but they have to be realistic if they are going to get ppl renewing or new ppl interested in the M. USD75K does seem a little over the top but Im sure with an options list pages long, some will see that figure.

i'm gonna sell my M now before the resale value tanks

Not sure how far it will drop but would say as soon as the E90 model does come out, regardless if you own an M or a 330i, prices will certainly drop as ppl see the E46 as an OLD model, not necessarily true at all but in the eyes of some it will. From current new and used, i would say prices will drop between 5 - 8 % and gradually increase as more E90 models are released.

I mean here in Oz some M owners are still getting USD40 + for excellent E36 M's, so think the price for E46 M's will be still upthere for some time. No need to panic just yet.

Well BMW are talking about the new E90 being introduced mid next year, already a lot of pictures out about this. BMW says that they will introduce the M approx one year later would should land it around Q2 2006 for Delivery Q3 - Q4 2006 but I hear what you are saying, maybe more like Q1 2007 but earlier would be better. Maybe they will introduce the new M in Q3 for a 2007 Model Build for Q4 Delivery. As the dates approach, we will know more.

Regarding price, not sure the new M will be up that high. Certainly will be a jump (knowing BMW) from the current E46 but they have to be realistic if they are going to get ppl renewing or new ppl interested in the M. USD75K does seem a little over the top but Im sure with an options list pages long, some will see that figure.

Well from what I hear, the new 3 Series Sedan is being released in March 2005 as an early 2006 model. The Coupe/Convertible will follow one year later in Spring 2006 as a 2007 model, followed by the new M3 one year after this in Spring 2007 as a 2008 model.

What was the price difference b/w the old and new M5?

the new 3 will be almost like a last gen 5...may not be as tossable and fun to drive. i opted to buy the unbangle bungled M3 now and not wait. I also exxpect a hefty price increase ala M5. lets face it high HP is not the only element of driving satisfaction otherwise you would all be driving Vetts and musclecars.

tis true.

Hmm let the waiting game begin.

Hmm let the waiting game begin.

I'm not known for my patience. J/K - I cannot wait to see whjat they come up with. If the car sports the look factor also I might just be a loyal BMW fanatic for more years to come.

Does this mean E90 M3 owners have two extra cylinders flying out of their hood when their engine goes BOOM?

Well from what I hear, the new 3 Series Sedan is being released in March 2005 as an early 2006 model. The Coupe/Convertible will follow one year later in Spring 2006 as a 2007 model, followed by the new M3 one year after this in Spring 2007 as a 2008 model.

What was the price difference b/w the old and new M5?

Hey Tommy, I've heard the same. My buddy James sold me my 04 M3 and has verified this info exact. Our E46's are safe from the depreciative hit for awhile. :beer:

Hey Tommy, I've heard the same. My buddy James sold me my 04 M3 and has verified this info exact. Our E46's are safe from the depreciative hit for awhile. :beer:

Re your 2nd last sentence, just curious how this has been verified, please share your source. Thanks in Advance.

a mod now williams? congrats

Thanks very much for the congrats.....

Re your 2nd last sentence, just curious how this has been verified, please share your source. Thanks in Advance.

My buddy is a BMW sales associate, he's pretty dedicated to his job, knows his sh!t! and confirmed this. New M5 will hit the buyers market late 05 this was also confirmed by him. M3 won't hit til, late 06 - 07... I'm just conveying what was told to me, since you asked.

I like the optimism of the car having 450HP+... but guys keep in mind this car is targeted at about $60K US. I don't see BMW getting away with a car that is much pricier than that bears a 3 series tag.

there should have been a V-8 M3 years ago...

Hey adam where you getting this stuff from?

[QUOTE=Kevin034]Eh ... which AMG and Porsche crowd? The year 1999 crowd? Or the year 2000? 0-60 in under 5, give me a break, stop being so pathetic.

Kevin,

You have become a ghost. What happened to your expressive profile? I always thought it was a great barometer of the forum to get the attention of BMWNA to get their act together.

Why aren’t you a post ***** anymore? I generally enjoyed your comments. You have even turned off the ability to receive PMs :nixweiss:


:wave:

let the oogling start ... droool!

Thanks for the headsup O4Ty, greatly appreciated. Im thinking Q4 06 - Q1 07 well thats when the TD expires lol.....

WHere do I get this stuff from John???, well I could tell but my contract and 007 status doesn't allow me to expose this.
Adam.

any exterior photos or spy shots?

Nothing clear as of yet, still awating some more images to come from the Ring in Germany where most of the testing is done. I think BMW has pretty much shut down until the first few weeks of Jan as the Ring I would say over that period would get a good run with tourists and users.

But stay tuned......
Adam.

Great !!!! :beer:

So which is it, a V8 or I6 because just yesterday you stated it was going to be an I6 just after you posted this same article here.

Well to be honest, WHO KNOWS, the information coming out of BMWAG seems to change daily but looks more like its going to be a V8, displacement and HP is yet to be confirmed AND if you noticed in my other thread, I told members to now look at this thread......... Thanks for the reply.
All the best.
Adam.

I wouldnt care how well it performs, if chris bangle messes the M3 up, im gonna be pissed! Seems like auto makers like screwing up timeless designs, hopefully mazda never releases a new RX7 either, the last one was perfect, hate to see what a new one would look like :offtopic:

BUT, the HP war is getting crazy, i have a 600hp VR4 and im looking at getting a 240hp M3, the M3 was much more rewarding to drive. I think the M3 should remain the benchmark of having a rewarding driving experience, not so much straightline prowess. insane hp gets old after a little while, im only 20 and saying that...now i just need to find the perfect E36 and enjoy the drive!!! :beer:

Jason

its gonna be a 4.4 V8. The same V8 used in the phase 1 M3 GTR. Obviously de tuned from GTR form. and much cheaper than the £150,000 tag of the GTR.

its gonna be a 4.4 V8. The same V8 used in the phase 1 M3 GTR. Obviously de tuned from GTR form. and much cheaper than the £150,000 tag of the GTR.

you think 440hp then :nixweiss: This is considering 100hp/L is almost certain :beer:

Sounds like nice round figures to me........ imagine what the CSL is going to be then....
Adam.

Anyone thinking more numbers than the post by Predator or would 440 be plenty for the new E90 M3 ?
Adam.

Maybe I am on of the few ones that want an I6... Remember when Porsche got some V8s in their cars like the 928? Who cares about them... on the other hand everybody loves the Porsche flat engines! Same with me and BMW...

Maybe I am on of the few ones that want an I6... Remember when Porsche got some V8s in their cars like the 928? Who cares about them... on the other hand everybody loves the Porsche flat engines! Same with me and BMW...
well Gabe that V8 is what the Audi RS/S v8 are ! ! ! the S4 is closely rleated to the Porsche S4 engine.

and Gabe i do agree with you, i want the straight sixes to stay, they are a BMW trademark.

Well If there is no I6 in the M range I will definitelly go Porshce in the Future.

Well hope that the M boys can still keep you onboard gabriel.
Adam.

and Gabe i do agree with you, i want the straight sixes to stay, they are a BMW trademark.


So do I ... they already messed E39 and now M3 the new 330 will be released with a 268 hp engine. and a 335 is coming too. Lets pray for the new M3 stays in inline 6

I'm a little mystified at the resistance to the V8. Yes, the I6 is a sweet motor, but so is the E39 M5's V8. That, or a similar motor (perhaps with even more power) in the next M3 would make a very nice combination that wouldn't leave it looking at the taillights of the competition as an I6 almost surely would.

Check it out guys:

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=52387

Well hope that the M boys can still keep you onboard gabriel.
Adam.


They say that the M1/M2 is going to be I6 powered... Time will show!

Well if that is the case, that just strenghten's the case that the M3 will be V8 grunt.
Adam.

Well if that is the case, that just strenghten's the case that the M3 will be V8 grunt.
Adam.


I hope that it wont be a V8 heavy pig M3 tho cause I wouldnt stand that!

yakee :banghead:

LOL, well looking at the German boys, they certainly know how to put a silky V8 together, look at the M5, that aint no slouch and TriFlow can vouch for that..........

Everyone wants more power, so the only way that is going to happen is if BMW step up and take on a new V8. With ppl complaining about the AMG, AUDI and Porsche boys kicking some serious booty, well this is the only way we are going to keep with the pack. SO get onboard and support the push and stop rubbishing what they are trying to do. Yes it wont be everyone's cup of tea BUT atleast ppl cant say that BMW ///MSport ain't having a go.

Adam. No1 BMW ///MSport Supporter !

LOL, well looking at the German boys, they certainly know how to put a silky V8 together, look at the M5, that aint no slouch and TriFlow can vouch for that..........

Everyone wants more power, so the only way that is going to happen is if BMW step up and take on a new V8. With ppl complaining about the AMG, AUDI and Porsche boys kicking some serious booty, well this is the only way we are going to keep with the pack. SO get onboard and support the push and stop rubbishing what they are trying to do. Yes it wont be everyone's cup of tea BUT atleast ppl cant say that BMW ///MSport ain't having a go.

Adam. No1 BMW ///MSport Supporter !


Tho I dont think that the main target of BMW is those who already have an M3... They have a whole market to appeal...not just M3 owners... Plus there are so many people that couldnt afford the current I6 M3, are M3 fans and cant stand the V8 especially in Europe. PErsonally if the new M3 is as sporty as the current one and comes with 6MT I would definitelly pick it... I love the looks of the E90 series so...

Well I am very happy to report that the covers have just been pulled off the engine compartment of the new E90 M3 now due in 2006. The new E90 M3 was caught testing around the world famous Nurburgring late last month with a big thumping V8 under its hood. The new configuration is rumored to output the Magical Figures of 300Kw or 402HP in the old money.

Sources also confirm that the M3 will stay as a RWD, speed limited to 250Km/h / 155MPH and driven thru the current M5's new 7 Speed SMGIII box and wait for it............. a totally reworked Six Speed Manual. Meaning the debate between the SMG Boys and the Manual Lads can and will continue for years to come.

The M3 with its V8 engine (size still unconfirmed) is rumored to hit the 60/100 mark in under 5 putting it firmly in the sites of the AMG and Porsche crowd. To add further stability to the car, the engine has now been set back further in the frame to provide the car with a mid engine feel effectively giving better over all weight distribution. There is also talk of tweaking certain parts of the new E90 M3 with 20 inch rims as standard, active steering, a meatier brake package and active roll stability which will work in well with DSC, TC & LC.

Sounds like BMW MSport have certainly answered the call that we had hoped, this is certainly the start of a massive future for the new E90 M3.

Trust me when I say............... there is more to come.

Awesome, I saw another thread around here... stating the E90 M3 will remain an I-6 / extracting just over 380hp... I was disappointed to hear that.

400 hp V8, b!atch! :thumbsup:

The new V8 will supposedly be made of Magnesium (I'm guessing not the whole engine, sorry, not really up to par with parts of a engine hehe)? Which will mean it will stay the same weight or less that the current I-6 which has great news for the weight of the car since of course the 50-50 weight distribution will stay in place.

The new V8 will supposedly be made of Magnesium (I'm guessing not the whole engine, sorry, not really up to par with parts of a engine hehe)? Which will mean it will stay the same weight or less that the current I-6 which has great news for the weight of the car since of course the 50-50 weight distribution will stay in place.


If they use the technolody tested on 330s I guess that it will have a magnesium block and aluminium cylinder head.

With an 8, they really have to look at ways of keeping down the weight that is for sure. I think we will see a bit more Carbon, Ti and Mag used in the E90M to offer more punch in the Power to Weight Ratios.

Great to also hear Gab that u like the shape and the look of the new E90.
Adam.

With an 8, they really have to look at ways of keeping down the weight that is for sure. I think we will see a bit more Carbon, Ti and Mag used in the E90M to offer more punch in the Power to Weight Ratios.

Great to also hear Gab that u like the shape and the look of the new E90.
Adam.


Yeah. I love the E90. No lets think of V8 vs I6 and concentrate on the benefits!

- More low end torque.... if the S54 lacked something that is it!

- Smaller length and shorter crankshaft (could relatively reduce the engine mass)

- Easier placement behind the front axle without sacrificing space and making the car less nose heavy (better front traction)

Who will come up with more?

- Same weight displacement
- Easier ability to gain further HP out of the motor when modding
- Larger engine and ability to produce other spec engines for M's like the CSL
- Totally new sound out of the exhaust
Adam.

My bet is that BMW will have plastic fenders and other panels on the car as with the 6 series.

Im sure its a case of wait and see but I do like the look and the shape of the 330i thus far, Im sure the M is only going to be better. Just hope the donk lives up to expectations, Im sure the boys @ M will.
Adam.

The E90 looks awesome, IMO. Adam - Have you seen the sales brochure?

No nothing as of yet, unsure if there is anything available as of yet.
But it would be nice to know what the options are and what might float into the M as standard kit.
Adam.

I have the sales brochure if you want me to email it to you. :D

That would be great thanks.....
Adam.

With the new E90M being a V8, any news on final displacement 4.0 or 4.4?
Less R&D required for the 4.4 as its already built and has good reliability.

That would be great thanks.....
Adam.

With the new E90M being a V8, any news on final displacement 4.0 or 4.4?
Less R&D required for the 4.4 as its already built and has good reliability.

If 4.4L is used then about 450hp is expected and this is unfortunately not likely so i think a new 3.8-4.0L and the 405hp as per other thread.

Yeah digger that could be true, out of your options I think the 4.0L would be more the go, but they already have the 4.4L in the line with the X5 and in the 7 so it would be a lot simpler to get the M boys to wave their wand over that than redo a whole new engine. 450HP would certainly be on the cards then and give the other german fans something to really think hard about.

Hmm if that was the case just imagine the CSL !!!!
Adam.

Do you think they will actually make another CSL this early?

There is SERIOUS talk of have an E90M3 CSL roughly about 1 to 1.5 years after release, so yes its a massive possibility of bring one out so early in the model run. The German lads are certainly turning their ideas around and releasing oven-hot models alot ealier in the product life cycle. This is a good step for them and US....

M6CSL prehaps too ?
Adam.

There is SERIOUS talk of have an E90M3 CSL roughly about 1 to 1.5 years after release, so yes its a massive possibility of bring one out so early in the model run. The German lads are certainly turning their ideas around and releasing oven-hot models alot ealier in the product life cycle. This is a good step for them and US....

M6CSL prehaps too ?
Adam.


There will be E90 CSL as far as I know. Still dont know whether you guys in the States will get it tho. Dont expect it before 2008-9 tho.

Yes think Australia and Europe (lucky us) will get any variant of the CSL when it comes out. Yes on estimates, the CSL should be released as I stated above.

Still no confirmed specs around yet ???? Anyone
Adam.

Not seen anything official and I was in my dealers last week and they said bmw haven't announced anything officially to them yet - but that the mags would have it first anyway.

Every magazine I'm reading now that mentions the next gen m3 is saying 400 or 405bhp V8.

Yeah me too, there is heaps of speculation out there on what the final figures will or wont be. Have heard as high as 444bhp as well, if it was that much, the CSL would be something to behold......

Time will tell. Thanks for the update BigGrin and keep us posted.
Adam.

i got to see the new e90 it looks crazy like still the e46 hood bulg and side gills but not at all the same did u all see that new hatch 3 they have i wana say 180 but i dont know but it has the headlights

newbie so here goes...i talked to the owner of my dealer at pentagon car sales in kaiserslautern, germany and he says the v8 in the upcoming m3 ( due out mid to late 2007 ) will be similar to the previous m5 v8 so output around 400 hp. a great webiste to see new german stuff is autobild.de a german magazine's website with lotsa cool pics...all in german but most can muddle through..have fun !!!

The new M should be pushing close to 450hp at least...that's what I wanna see...lol

G'Day atomicdoc, thanks for the update and thanks also for the link, great to have you onboard. I agree Director......... that the new M should have in around the 450HP mark, it has to be reliable and ready to go. BMWAG should learn from the failures of the S54 and make this engine sing. If BMWAG are wanting to produce more HP to catch the other German boys, why not put something that is going to stay in front for a long while. 450HP Stock M, imagine the CSL.
Adam.

Here is something for you all to chew on......

If the M is not due till 2007, do you think that BMW will take the time to perfect the E90M's new engine, as in the all new 4.0 or do you think they will relook at the 4.4 and tune it accordingly. A 4.4 IMHO will certainly produce 400HP easily and will do it in a reliable fashion too, something the S54 hasn't achieved especailly in the earlier models. If the competition prior to release of the new M achieves more HP, Im sure that MSport will be more prone to putting out more HP to match.

So far we have been looking at the current HP of other cars to compete against them M, Im sure the HP battle will continue well into the future and MSport need to counter punch this prior to the release date. Hence I believe MSport will go for the bigger stroker, the 4.4.
Adam.

Here is something for you all to chew on......

If the M is not due till 2007, do you think that BMW will take the time to perfect the E90M's new engine, as in the all new 4.0 or do you think they will relook at the 4.4 and tune it accordingly. A 4.4 IMHO will certainly produce 400HP easily and will do it in a reliable fashion too, something the S54 hasn't achieved especailly in the earlier models. If the competition prior to release of the new M achieves more HP, Im sure that MSport will be more prone to putting out more HP to match.

So far we have been looking at the current HP of other cars to compete against them M, Im sure the HP battle will continue well into the future and MSport need to counter punch this prior to the release date. Hence I believe MSport will go for the bigger stroker, the 4.4.
Adam.
Part of ///M philosophy is to have an output of no less than 100hp per liter. If they do opt for the 4.4, the new ///M must have at least 440hp. I really think they will design a 4.0 with 400-425hp.

I own a March 2001 build M3 and have had 0 issues with reliability.

I see your point but at 4.4 I still think they could squeeze that sort of HP out of it easily, saying that, if they went with a CSL, the could go as hight as 480HP and still have the M5 as the powerhorse/benchmark. Makes sense to me.

Also great to hear that you have had 0 issues, you are one of few and far between. There should be / will be a lot more of those types of stories in the E90M.
Adam.

A great to hear that you have had 0 issues, your one of few and far between. There should be / will be a lot more of those types of stories in the E90M.
Adam.
A great number of reliable ///M3 engines are out there, you just don't hear about them. People don't type on message boards about the problems they don't have, only about the problems they do.

I think ///M did a great job with the S54.

i have an 04 build..and have more problems than 90% of the members :banghead:

How very true, how very true you are, well pointed out.

I think they did as well, I just hope the newbie is a lot better in all respects.
Adam.

A great number of reliable ///M3 engines are out there, you just don't hear about them. People don't type on message boards about the problems they don't have, only about the problems they do.

I think ///M did a great job with the S54.

I just hope the newbie is a lot better in all respects.
Adam.
Agreed :thumbsup:

I'm confident it will be.

Nice write up Adam!!!!! Thanks for the info

Another week down and still no closer to getting anything confirmed.
BUT please stay tuned.....
Adam.

Eh ... which AMG and Porsche crowd? The year 1999 crowd? Or the year 2000? 0-60 in under 5, give me a break, stop being so pathetic.

The new 997 can do low 4s and 12 second 1/4 miles, and that's not neven the 997s. The C51 (not even a Z06) is evern faster. AMG? ROFL, don't kid yourself. Unless that M can do 0-60 in 4 seconds or less and pack more torque than a tank, you can't catch an AMG.

Right on Kevin, I agree with you. I have no interest in plucking another 60-70k$ on an overweight version of my current car with two extra cylinders and marginal improvements. If the M3 does not wipe the floor with the major competition (which is looking unlikely without a visit to the weight loss clinic) then it is going to be a has-been of the late 80's-90's and early 00's, a could-a should-a been a contender...

Unsure if I would call 60HP a marginal improvement myself and as the specs have not been finalised, I wouldnt be giving the Porsche "Crowd" a pat on the back just yet.
Adam.

ANY PROGRESS or NEWS on the engine specs ?
Adam.

Is it really neccessary to have an M for every number (M1, M2, M3/M4, M5, M6)?...I would like the see BMW keep the M more of an exclusive car instead of making an M version of everything.

Hey icejet32.......... um the M is exclusive to the rest of the BMW Fleet of Cars. The M name or M branding is the show that, that particular car is the ELITE of its Series.

Very similar to
SLK55AMG
CLK55AMG
C55AMG
E55AMG
SL55AMG
SL65AMG
etc etc etc.... AMG meaning its the ELITE of the Mercedes range for that Class.

Yeah great...at what price??

Seriously, they really cant knock the price of this new M out too much as they still need to be realistic if they plan for ppl to buy. The M needs to produce big numbers to keep with the competition on the road but also has to keep the price in check to keep the volume boys and shareholders happy. Its all a waiting game and Im sure in the not to distant future, a lot more things will be revelied.
Adam.

With articles like Scott's re the BMW Vs the Power War, this can only be good news. As I have been saying for a long time now, if you have noticed BMW have not said exactly what the displacement on this engine well be. Yes we know it will be a V8 in a 4 Litre format but what ??? 4.0, 4.2, 4.4, 4.6 or 4.8 etc etc. Information on this can only heat up from here on in.......
Adam.

I want:

444HP from 4.4L and a V8 in the E90 M3 (8,650 Redline).

I want:

Z4M with the M3CSL S54... sub 3000Lbs Boxster Killer...can you say SCREAMER!!!

I want:

An evolution of the S54 in the M2 - 300HP, <3000Lbs... this MAY just be the new E30 M3 and what the old one stood for.

I want:

A re-incarnation of the McLaren F1 V12 in the M1 Supercar, making 750HP, 6.6L, V12 with a 9,000 RPM redline. 2800Lbs.

What we'll get... is up to M-Technik.

Cheers,

Zubin.

Sounds like a Sweeeeeeet List. Sure Hope Santa can bring it all

ESPECAILLY THE FIRST ONE, FORGET THE REST.
Adam.

I want:

444HP from 4.4L and a V8 in the E90 M3 (8,650 Redline).



Sounds good to me. I think it'll have to be unless the new M3 plans on spending a lot of time looking at the competition's tail lights.

Even to stay in sight of the new M5 and M6, it'll need more than 400hp.

I dont think the E90M3 needs to keep the other M's in sight, I think it has more to do with being that one step in front of the competition like MSport used to be. This is ground really that MSport have never played or walked on before and playing catch up is a hard thing to do when you have led from the front for so many years. MSport are not done by a long shot and Im sure the new M will be above and beyond our wildest expectations. Im sure they are trying a mix of engine and set up configurations.

My theory "When has too much MPower ever been enough"

Regardless of the engine configuration of 4.0 or 4.4, how do you think the SMGIII 7 Speed box is going to cope with the power/torque? Also what sort of revs is the engine going to maintain thru the whole 7 gears ? Anyone ?
Adam.

We don't have to worry about how the engine and transmission will pair with each other. The V8 is supposedly going to be a cut down version of the M5's V10. As with the E39-E46 M5-M3 sharing the same getrag transmission, the E60-E90 will most likely use the same transmission. This SMG III is already designed to handle the output level of the M5 (500hp) and as such should have no problem with the M3. It will probably be geared slightly differently to make use of lower power output and it will probably utilize a different clutch as one that is rated for 500hp isn't necessary on a 400hp V8. I imagine the revs it holds at cruising speeds in 7th will be similar to the revs of cruising speed in our current 6th. 7th will probably be a fairly tall gear so as to maintain cross country cruisability while allowing 1-4 to be acceleration gears, and perhaps 5th to be a 1:1 ratio. BUT! this is all just speculation from myself as I have searched BMW's site and they haven't yet released the gear ratios for the SMG III on the M5. I have no sources for this info other than myself, so I could be way off. Whether I'm wrong or right, I can't wait to see this new transmission and try it out. I'm confident that it (as well as the engine, suspension, and chassis) will be phenominally good. My only concern is that BMW gives the car a better sound than the E46. I don't mind the "chainsaw/weedwhacker" noise emitted by the E46's, but IMO a car of this caliber should not have an engine note that you merely tolerate, it should have an engine note that you lust for - like the CSL or C5 ZO6.
-Dave

I imagine the revs it holds at cruising speeds in 7th will be similar to the revs of cruising speed in our current 6th. 7th will probably be a fairly tall gear so as to maintain cross country cruisability while allowing 1-4 to be acceleration gears, and perhaps 5th to be a 1:1 ratio. BUT! this is all just speculation from myself as I have searched BMW's site and they haven't yet released the gear ratios for the SMG III on the M5.

on the e60 m5 5th is 1.16:1 and 6th is 1.00:1 and 7th 0.xx:1

hmmm, 0-60 in under 5?

4.?

I would think that an extra 75 hp would make a substantial difference...

E46 is rated at 4.8 with a 1/4 time of 12.5(matthews)- 13.?

Where will E90 M3 fall?

Can it compete with RS6/Zo6/AMG 55's ?

Good find Digger. +reps. May I ask, what is the source on that?
CKap3:
We can't use mathews 12.49 run as a baseline.
A.) He was modified, so if anything, we would use his 12.8 run
B.) There is almost no one else capable of running an M3 down the strip the way mathews can, so we can't use his times as a realistic baseline unless we all become professional dragracers. We should probably use a 13.1-13.3 for 6speed and a 13.3-13.5 for SMG as our baseline. Sure there are M3's out there that run faster (i.e. George's SMG) but I'm just talking about the average.
The E90 (or is it E92 for the M3 variant?) M3 will probably run 0-60 in about the same time the new M5 does as long as BMW keeps to what they did with the last gen (making both cars accelerate 0-60/quarter mile with very similar times). That means about a 4.6 0-60, maybe slightly faster. As for quarter mile, I'd assume 12.5-12.8. Once again, this is all just speculation. None of us can say what it will run. As for competing with the cars you mentioned:
RS6: Current M3's have been videotaped competing with RS6's. So the E90 should be able to as well.
C5 Z06: We still don't know curb weight or exact power of the E90, but if it does turn out to be only slightly heavier with right about 400 horsepower, the E90 do better than the E46, but it still won't win. Z06 makes 405 hp with less weight and better aerodynamics.
C6 Z06: Absolutely not. I doubt anything south of the 200K pricetag will run with that. At least until the 997 911TT is released.
AMG 55 is kind of a vague term. If it's a non-S/c'd AMG 55 then the E46 can and has won in races. Those are fairly close since the old AMG 32 SC was lighter and made only slightly less power than their contemporaries, the 55 AMGs and we could run with and/or beat a 32. So E90 vs NA 55 - Advantage E90, but no garuntee.
S/C 55: Can't say. E60 M5 should be able to beat those from a roll. From a stop, can't say. If we base E90 performance on the E60 the way that we could with E39/E46, then it will be close. Still, no garuntee. Those E55AMGs and SL55AMGs flat out fly.
Once again, it's too early to definitively answer any of those questions. Hell, I'd say it's even too early for us to be asking these types of questions. The E90 M3 won't be out for another year and a half at least. I've read that it could be delayed as long as 3 years, but I doubt that. Either way, it's coming in a few years equipped with what it's competitors have now. By the time it comes out, there will be faster things than the C6 and AMG will have released better and faster offerings. So comparing a car of tomorrow to the cars of today is kind of moot.
-Dave

Good find Digger. +reps. May I ask, what is the source on that?



no probs

fastsaloons.com (http://www.fastsaloons.com/cardetails.php?carlist=21,134,288)

Just show me where to sign. :thumbsup:

Personally I belive that BMW will pull the M3 out of the fire with a 400+HP V8 especially if its going to have a cut down version of the M5. The ratios are also another thing, if they are nice and tight, it will give the M3 the ability to run with a lot of the cars mentioned above, although u also have to worry about the top end. With all the new gadgets going into the new M, it will also mean a heavier weight but could be on or around the same scale as the current E46, again we will have to wait and see.

The 55's we do have a chance with, again if they are not SC, meaning anything above the C55 we are going to get killed regardless. This is seriously why I think BMW will stroke the M3 a little harder for more HP, trust me, u just watch.
Adam.

i think the m3 will hang with the M5 and hence 55SC's until about 100mph provided that my realistic estimates of 1600kg (3500lbs) and 310kw (420hp) come true, based purely on its traction capabilities, above that speed who cares.

above that speed (100mph) who cares.
Are you serious? I, for one...CARE!

I don't know about everyone here but most of my races are on the highway over 100mph.

I work at BMW Brazil, in our forcast M3 shows a 400 Hp engine, but do not show engine displacement neither cylinder numbers ...

Yup under 100MPH counts and so does over........ period regardless if on a freeway or not. And YES there has been still no further communication from BMW or MSport in regardless to the displacment or final HP figures...... this can only be GREAT news for us all, meaning BMW are keeping its cards very very close to its chest.

This is the start of a company that we have never seen before.

BMW = Something Very Special
MSport = Something Even Greater...... Pure Driving Excitement. (Print that AMG!)
Adam.

What is Msport?

amazing info! looking forward to it

MSport is Motorsport, the M in your M3

Ahhh thankU icejet32, Reps for U.
Adam.

Ok, still no news on the displacement or Kw/HP output.
BUT...

Sounds like we have the competition running scared. Audi RS4 confirmed a V8 4.2 310Kw / 416HP engine which is aimed TOTALLY at squashing the M. MSport, I hope yr taking notes and are now well advanced of these figures.
Adam.

. . . and the new V8 will fit in our engine bay should you get the wild hair to make that mod. I'm sure it won't be plug and play though. "Special" tools will no doubt be required.

this is an option. :wave:

Audi RS4 confirmed a V8 4.2 310Kw / 416HP engine which is aimed TOTALLY at squashing the M. MSport, I hope yr taking notes and are now well advanced of these figures.
Adam.

Ditto. I am not at all thrilled at the prospect of being "squashed" by an Audi.

BMW M: Do what you have to do - I expect the M3 to be able to show its taillights to the RS4! I'm thinking 440 is a nice number, but maybe 425 is more likely, and in line with the progression of the 3. E36 M3: 240hp(US), E46 M3: 333, E90 M3: 426??

JT

Ditto. I am not at all thrilled at the prospect of being "squashed" by an Audi.

BMW M: Do what you have to do - I expect the M3 to be able to show its taillights to the RS4! I'm thinking 440 is a nice number, but maybe 425 is more likely, and in line with the progression of the 3. E36 M3: 240hp(US), E46 M3: 333, E90 M3: 426??

JT


I know 0-60 is not the best indicator of performance but the SR4 does it in 4.8 which is what the current M3 does it in so I don't think we need be too concerned with the RS4

Ditto. I am not at all thrilled at the prospect of being "squashed" by an Audi.

BMW M: Do what you have to do - I expect the M3 to be able to show its taillights to the RS4! I'm thinking 440 is a nice number, but maybe 425 is more likely, and in line with the progression of the 3. E36 M3: 240hp(US), E46 M3: 333, E90 M3: 426??

JT

425-6 sounds like a good number..w/ a 25% increase in power I would expect the new M3 to be in the 60-65k range. Lots of clink and a 'bargain' relative to money/per hp vs. say the Carrera S. I think 425 is too much. Perennially they come in less than the competition packaging the car with just a smidgen less hp wanting you to go up to the M5 if you want more ponies. I expect that 400hp even will be the number and it will be detuned a good bit. then with headers, catback and ecu right around 440 or so. :nixweiss: I"m guessing that the V8 displacement will be in line with what the evolution of the F1 rule book is at the time. The V10 is a derivative of last years powerplant. I expect a small bore and a relatively hi revving 8...BMW seems to make their power up in the rev range..total speculation. My guess is something like 3.8L or 4.0L. Will keep the tuners from having too much play with mods to rival the M5 unless you supercharge.

When has too much power ever been enough. Personally, my wishlist consists of a
4.4L
444HP
SMGIII and
ALL ISSUES WITHIN THE E46 FIXED / Finalised / DONE. No engine, chassis, brake, interior, exterior issues with the E90M at all.

444HP with a stock M
480HP with a CSL Version, this still gives a 25HP gap between the M5 & M6 Versions.

PEOPLE, PLEASE stop looking at what other car companies are doing, what they are, what they are not doing.... AUDI, MB, Porsche, Vette, etc. These cars are all built on the basic principals of the M and have gotten better only because they have used the M as a benchmark. The E90M will be something special and will SHOCK AND ORE us all.
Adam.

Wow!!!!! great man!!!! can't wait 4 tat already!!!!!

When has too much power ever been enough. Personally, my wishlist consists of a
4.4L
444HP
SMGIII and
ALL ISSUES WITHIN THE E46 FIXED / Finalised / DONE. No engine, chassis, brake, interior, exterior issues with the E90M at all.

444HP with a stock M
480HP with a CSL Version, this still gives a 25HP gap between the M5 & M6 Versions.

PEOPLE, PLEASE stop looking at what other car companies are doing, what they are, what they are not doing.... AUDI, MB, Porsche, Vette, etc. These cars are all built on the basic principals of the M and have gotten better only because they have used the M as a benchmark. The E90M will be something special and will SHOCK AND ORE us all.
Adam.

one can hope that once a benchmark, always a benchmark

insaine! that will be sooo nice.
any stats on that so far? like 1/4 mile or 0-60 etc?

As we are unaware of displacement and final figures on HP etc, we are unable to really put a finger on it. Anyone like to take a guess?
Adam.

Hey I'm new here... I was at my dealership today. The dealer told me that the new M3 is going to be about the same size as the old M5 - with basically the same engine, just upgrated. He also said that everything is still "in the paperwork" and nothing has been finalized. The car should be out in 2 years. He is waiting for the new M3 too, and he's using his job to try and find out as much as he can, and he's getting nothing! Would it be possable to contact BMW's main office and tell them that a LOT of people are waiting for any little tiny sliver of information and plead with them to give us something??

All the guesses that I've heard are between 400 and 450... I'd be happy with 400 but ecstatic with 450... I think that if it does come with close to 450 we have to be looking at a 0-60 is the low 4s, and with a few mods we'd be up to 500hp :shiftdriv

Hey I'm new here... I was at my dealership today. The dealer told me that the new M3 is going to be about the same size as the old M5 - with basically the same engine, just upgrated. He also said that everything is still "in the paperwork" and nothing has been finalized. The car should be out in 2 years. He is waiting for the new M3 too, and he's using his job to try and find out as much as he can, and he's getting nothing! Would it be possable to contact BMW's main office and tell them that a LOT of people are waiting for any little tiny sliver of information and plead with them to give us something??

That’s just what BMW wants, to build up the hype... Only an enthusiast will get on the wait list sight and facts unseen and once the car is out then the masses will run to it but by then there will be over a year wait list... that said I'd love to hear some more solid rummors/facts about the car

Hey I'm new here... I was at my dealership today. The dealer told me that the new M3 is going to be about the same size as the old M5 - with basically the same engine, just upgrated. He also said that everything is still "in the paperwork" and nothing has been finalized. The car should be out in 2 years. He is waiting for the new M3 too, and he's using his job to try and find out as much as he can, and he's getting nothing! Would it be possable to contact BMW's main office and tell them that a LOT of people are waiting for any little tiny sliver of information and plead with them to give us something??
Well, as for the engine, most sources (i.e. magazines, BMW insiders, and tidbits of info trickling out from the top) suggest that the engine will not be in any way related to the S62 found in the e39 M5. That was a 5 liter, comparably low revving V8, whereas most clues hint at a 4 liter V8 for the e92 M3. Most people, including myself, believe that the engine will be related to the E60 M5's V10, minus 2 cyls of course. This makes the most technical (the V10 displaces .5L per cyl, current info says that the V8 will be 4 liters - 8cyl*.5L/cyl=4L), and financial sense (BMW will be able to use the same or very similar parts/techniques in the mainstream production of M3/5/6's due to similiarities in engines - this ensures lower R&D).

All the guesses that I've heard are between 400 and 450... I'd be happy with 400 but ecstatic with 450... I think that if it does come with close to 450 we have to be looking at a 0-60 is the low 4s, and with a few mods we'd be up to 500hp
I agree, I'd be very happy with 450, but I take issue with the "a few mods we'd be up to 500". If we use previous gen M3's as a template, it's VERY difficult to weasle 50 horsepower out of an M engine. Unlike a vette or a stang, M's don't respond particularly well to mods unless you go the forced induction route. The problem there is that forced induction took a very long time to be perfected for the E46 and when it finally did go on sale, it was VERY pricey. Unlike a vette, sti, stang, or evo where you can drop a little $$ and make all kinds of power, the M3 will cost the blood of a virgin, your first and third born children, and anywhere from 15-30K to make loads of power. :( Of course I'm using some hyperbole here, but the point remains that unfortunately M3's are very difficult to modify cheaply and efficiently.

However, at this point, all of what is being thrown around by all parties is nothing more than speculation. I really do wish BMW would release some solid data.
-Dave

I agree, I'd be very happy with 450, but I take issue with the "a few mods we'd be up to 500". If we use previous gen M3's as a template, it's VERY difficult to weasle 50 horsepower out of an M engine. Unlike a vette or a stang, M's don't respond particularly well to mods unless you go the forced induction route. The problem there is that forced induction took a very long time to be perfected for the E46 and when it finally did go on sale, it was VERY pricey. Unlike a vette, sti, stang, or evo where you can drop a little $$ and make all kinds of power, the M3 will cost the blood of a virgin, your first and third born children, and anywhere from 15-30K to make loads of power. :( Of course I'm using some hyperbole here, but the point remains that unfortunately M3's are very difficult to modify cheaply and efficiently.
-Dave

I was basing the extra HP on a 10% increase in HP from 450... With the E46 I've read you can gain 30hp roughly 10% from adding a cai and headers to cat back... I thought that a 10% gain would stand for doing these same fairly minor mods to a 450hp stock M... I have never done a performance mod so my line of thinking could be really off base.

Well, you bring up a good point. It's possible, but it's pricey. With the new AFE stuff and one or two of the other newer CAI's I would say that it's more possible now than it was two or three years ago. Back then, the big airbox to buy was the Gruppe M which had very mixed results. If I'm remembering right, it was over $1K and some people actually had dynos that showed it was no better than stock. In many instances of aftermarket parts, people have lost power. This is 5 years after the release of the E46 M3 (in Europe that is...only 4 years after the release in the US) and only recently are we starting to see some cheaper, more efficient power modifications. I personally haven't done any engine modification to the M3. Instead I've chosen to do brake modifications for the racetrack because the stock parts curl up and die on you rather easily. I imagine that the E92 will obey this trend and take a number of years before reliable, "cheap" products come out that will boost it's power. In any event, I hope you're right. A quick, easy, cheap 50 horsepower would be sweet! :thumbsup:
-Dave

Hey I'm new here... I was at my dealership today. The dealer told me that the new M3 is going to be about the same size as the old M5 - with basically the same engine, just upgrated.

My gut reaction to this was express doubt about the size similarity, but given that I am occasionally full of it, I decided to do some checking. Given that the E90 is out, we can safely assume that the dimensions on the M3 will be similar (outside of changes for the coupe).

According to Edmunds:

E39:
Length: 189.2 in. Width: 70.9 in.
Height: 55.8 in. Wheel Base: 111.4 in.
Curb Weight: 3748 lbs.

E90:
Length: 178.2 in. Width: 71.5 in.
Height: 55.9 in. Wheel Base: 108.7 in.
Curb Weight: 3417 lbs.

Fairly large difference in overall length - nearly a foot. Visually, I'd say that is going to be pretty big. Too bad the E90 is getting a bit tubby...

However, when you look at the interior dimensions, it gets interesting:

E39:
Front Head Room: 37.4 in. Front Shoulder Room: 56.8 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.2 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 55.9 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.7 in. Rear Leg Room: 34.2 in.
Luggage Capacity: 11.1 cu. ft. Maximum Seating: 5

E90:
Front Head Room: 37.4 in. Front Shoulder Room: 55.4 in.
Rear Head Room: 37.1 in. Rear Shoulder Room: 55.1 in.
Front Leg Room: 41.5 in. Rear Leg Room: 34.6 in.
Luggage Capacity: 12 cu. ft. Maximum Cargo Capacity: 12 cu. ft.
Maximum Seating: 5

:???:

Nearly identical interior dimensions, with noticably more trunk space. Pretty impressive.

the E90 M3 will be 415hp .. V8 .. I hope I'll have the pictures after some weeks ;)

btw there will be Z4 //M inline 6 3.2 343hp aaannnddd :bow: Z4 M Coupe also waiting for pictures ..

the E90 M3 will be 415hp .. V8 .. I hope I'll have the pictures after some weeks ;)

btw there will be Z4 //M inline 6 3.2 343hp aaannnddd :bow: Z4 M Coupe also waiting for pictures ..


"will be" sounds like you know, do you have some indsider knowlage?

yes I do :) And that is the all information I can share at the moment.

yes I do :) And that is the all information I can share at the moment.

sweet, let us know when you can... thanks

Turturelo, IF.... you do have insider knowledge, is this coming directly from Germany?
Turturelo, IF.....you have their ear, tell the more HP, lighter and NO PROBLEMS too. TIA.
Adam.

i was thinking they would have it somewhere closer to 440

i was thinking they would have it somewhere closer to 440

Much as I would love to see that, I think that would put it too close in performance to the upcoming M5, unless they bump that up too.

Turturelo, IF.... you do have insider knowledge, is this coming directly from Germany?
Turturelo, IF.....you have their ear, tell the more HP, lighter and NO PROBLEMS too. TIA.
Adam.


Adam, you missed one request off... a price reduction :beer:

Turturelo, IF.... you do have insider knowledge, is this coming directly from Germany?
straight from there..

Turturelo, IF.....you have their ear, tell the more HP, lighter and NO PROBLEMS too. TIA.

Unfortunately they can't hear me, I just can hear them :peace:

Thanks Turturelo, atleast yr honest.
Adam.

440 would be nice and dont think it would be pushing the M5 boundries or M6 for that matter considering they are both up over 500 each.

440 = Stock M
480 = CSL

What will the weight be of the new V8 unit and what will be the weight saving if any over the current S54 IL6?
Adam.

No idea yet on the weight of the new donk anyone?
Adam.

At last sweep, still no details on weight or displacement as of yet.
Will keep everyone posted.
Adam.

Not bad at all. Now let's hope it's not ugly.

agreed...the new 3 is not too pleasing to look at!

Another Week passes, still no offical word on Weight and Displacement.......
Ada///M.

Yea, from what I saw of the new 3 series they take a huge step backwards on looks from the E46 style.

looks have been Bangled....But the engine is the M3's real beauty :)

looks have been Bangled....But the engine is the M3's real beauty :)

the engine looks like it will have the same power as the RS 4. bmw makes wonderful engines. if the looks are not improved upon, alot of perspective m3 buyers will lean towards the S4/RS 4.

the engine looks like it will have the same power as the RS 4. bmw makes wonderful engines. if the looks are not improved upon, alot of perspective m3 buyers will lean towards the S4/RS 4.

Audi's styling is nothing to write home about either. From what i've seen of the new 3/4 it is far from having being bangalised to death. The M3 will out perform and out sell the RS4.

Well I am very happy to report that the covers have just been pulled off the engine compartment of the new E90 M3 now due in 2006. The new E90 M3 was caught testing around the world famous Nurburgring late last month with a big thumping V8 under its hood. The new configuration is rumored to output the Magical Figures of 300Kw or 402HP in the old money.

Sources also confirm that the M3 will stay as a RWD, speed limited to 250Km/h / 155MPH and driven thru the current M5's new 7 Speed SMGIII box and wait for it............. a totally reworked Six Speed Manual. Meaning the debate between the SMG Boys and the Manual Lads can and will continue for years to come.

The M3 with its V8 engine (size still unconfirmed) is rumored to hit the 60/100 mark in under 5 putting it firmly in the sites of the AMG and Porsche crowd. To add further stability to the car, the engine has now been set back further in the frame to provide the car with a mid engine feel effectively giving better over all weight distribution. There is also talk of tweaking certain parts of the new E90 M3 with 20 inch rims as standard, active steering, a meatier brake package and active roll stability which will work in well with DSC, TC & LC.

Sounds like BMW MSport have certainly answered the call that we had hoped, this is certainly the start of a massive future for the new E90 M3.

Trust me when I say............... there is more to come.

DEAR GOD NO, NOT ACTIVE STEERING!!!!! :banghead: :chair:

DEAR GOD NO, NOT ACTIVE STEERING!!!!!
Don't worry, I highly doubt that the M boys would throw active steering on their M3. For the e60 M5, active steering, valvetronic, and a few other newer electronic goodies were left off due to the M departement deciding that they would detract from feel and response. I highly doubt that these high dollar electronic gadgets will be put on the cheaper M3 which is known for being lighter, more responsive, and grippier than the M5.
-Dave

Audi's styling is nothing to write home about either. From what i've seen of the new 3/4 it is far from having being bangalised to death. The M3 will out perform and out sell the RS4.

of course the m3 will out sell the rs 4. it is a mass produced car, the rs 4 is a limited production car. the m3 may outperform the rs 4 in a straight line but in true driving in the twists, turns, and weather conditions the rs 4 has the m3 beat. audi's styling is very appealing to me, also, styling is subjective to every last person, each person has a different opinion

I seriously think that Active Steering will be only on an upgrade basis and not as a standard option. Active Steering really hasnt been tested in any BMW including the M5 to a great length but I think it will be a great safety aspect and a feature that will be used throughout the entire range.
Ada///M.

PS Still no word on displacement as of yet. Stay tuned.

I seriously think that Active Steering will be only on an upgrade basis and not as a standard option. Active Steering really hasnt been tested in any BMW including the M5 to a great length but I think it will be a great safety aspect and a feature that will be used throughout the entire range.
Ada///M.

PS Still no word on displacement as of yet. Stay tuned.

like the i drive---

Just wanted to give you all a heads up. Yes, this is my first post.

I spoke with my dealer in SC today, and secured #1 on the list for the 07 M3. According to her, and she just met with BMWNA last week, delivery of the coupe and cabrio is scheduled for spring 06. She didn't have any other details (stlying, power, etc), but the lists are turning now. I have a friend who is on the list in Raleigh too. Some other models will be a Zish M coupe, an X5 update in summer 06, the 1 series i think in 07, a 650, and a 550. Obviously this is all still up for change as BMW can do, but I think that 06 for the M3 is becoming solidified, I pray. Also, the new 3 series coupe/cabrio is scheduled for 06 spring delivery.

So for an easy grand, get on the list.

Matt

Just wanted to give you all a heads up. Yes, this is my first post.

I spoke with my dealer in SC today, and secured #1 on the list for the 07 M3. According to her, and she just met with BMWNA last week, delivery of the coupe and cabrio is scheduled for spring 06. She didn't have any other details (stlying, power, etc), but the lists are turning now. I have a friend who is on the list in Raleigh too. Some other models will be a Zish M coupe, an X5 update in summer 06, the 1 series i think in 07, a 650, and a 550. Obviously this is all still up for change as BMW can do, but I think that 06 for the M3 is becoming solidified, I pray. Also, the new 3 series coupe/cabrio is scheduled for 06 spring delivery.

So for an easy grand, get on the list.

Matt
You are saying spring 06 for coupe and convertable, so the earliest for M3 would be spring 07 as an 08 model and that seems about right.

You are saying spring 06 for coupe and convertable, so the earliest for M3 would be spring 07 as an 08 model and that seems about right.


According to her, 07 model/06 build for new M3, so for now, I'm going with that. I would assume that BMWNA would be truthful with their dealers.

I agree, I don't see them doing the 3 coupe/cabrio and the M3 at the same time, but the M3 is approaching the 5 year mark which is BMW's general standard rebuild for M, but not always. Who knows, here's to hoping.

Well the heat is certainly ON that is for sure and by the sounds of it, little bits of information are STARTING to come thru. Still no word on any figures etc but its certainly not that far away if they are talking about a Q42006 release date which still fits with my earlier predictions.

I asked BMWAU today regarding the list, yes the list is apparently growing at Australian dealerships for the E90M3 and the asking price to put yr name on the list is AUD5K or USD4K roughly.
Ada///M.

Just wanted to give you all a heads up. Yes, this is my first post.

I spoke with my dealer in SC today, and secured #1 on the list for the 07 M3. According to her, and she just met with BMWNA last week, delivery of the coupe and cabrio is scheduled for spring 06. She didn't have any other details (stlying, power, etc), but the lists are turning now. I have a friend who is on the list in Raleigh too. Some other models will be a Zish M coupe, an X5 update in summer 06, the 1 series i think in 07, a 650, and a 550. Obviously this is all still up for change as BMW can do, but I think that 06 for the M3 is becoming solidified, I pray. Also, the new 3 series coupe/cabrio is scheduled for 06 spring delivery.

So for an easy grand, get on the list.

Matt

If the Coupe/Cabro 3 series is scheduled for Spring of 06, then the M3 will take the next slot. The 3 series coupe and the M3 won't be released side by side at the same time period.

Ive never heard of the M coupe your talking about, but I can definately confirm the 6 series and 5 series getting the new engine, hence being 5/650 sedans/coupes.

Its true, there are many tiny bits of information coming out of BMW, and even though none of it is confirmed, im liking it. :thumbsup:

Well I am very happy to report that the covers have just been pulled off the engine compartment of the new E90 M3 now due in 2006.


Due in 2006? Then how about this news bulletin that pertains to production through '07 and doesn't even mention the E90 M3? The only car slated for production in '07 is the E90 convertible. The M always comes after the convertible.

Check it out: Click here (http://www2.autospies.com/images/6-24-05/bmw/BMW_Dealer_Bulletin.pdf)

Maybe it just doesn't address the M?

(btw, according this, there's no SMG for E90 in the U.S.)

Thanks for the info.
Current WORLD-WIDE production is labelled for Q4 2006 / Q1 2007 for the E90M.
Current WORLD-WIDE production is labelled for Q2 2006 for the E90Vert.

The US market will receive a SMGIII Unit including a Upgraded Version of the current MT transmission. Although the SMGIII "maybe" made available first.
Ada///M.

so we're just gonna get a suped up getrag tranny?

Correct, BMW were going to complete a whole new transmission but the cost totally outweighed the end benefit as not every 3 Series needed such a robust tranny as the M3 does. So they decided to go back to the drawing board on the current unit. To date there hasnt been much wrong with the E46 system but with the extra grunt coming onboard it was necessary to ensure that the transmission could hold. Getrag with their systems going into Vettes and the GTO know that they can handle the 400HP +++++++ needed to get the power down to the rears. So the decision was pretty simple, beef the current and spend R&D on other components.
Ada///M.

Thanks for the info.
Current WORLD-WIDE production is labelled for Q4 2006 / Q1 2007 for the E90M.
Current WORLD-WIDE production is labelled for Q2 2006 for the E90Vert.

The US market will receive a SMGIII Unit including a Upgraded Version of the current MT transmission. Although the SMGIII "maybe" made available first.
Ada///M.


I forgot that you were in Australia and I'm in the U.S.

:thumbsup:...... no worries
Ada///M.

STILL No further confirmation from Germany on the displacement of the new V8.
Ada///M.

Wild Rumors are still the only thing we have to go on at the moment.
Hopefully SOONish.... we should know what the real deal is but I'm thinking this could be some months off yet.
Ada///M.

hopefully its not ugly and the price tag isnt to high

Judging from the pics that are currently circulating, the new E90 will look pretty tough. Yes they are only photoCHOPS but still there has to be some truth to them. The price will be a tad steeper but if its too high, BMW will find it hard to move them worldwide.
Ada///M.

wouldnt they show the car first and get some feedback from the auto shows?

Geez, such suspense! Really. 6 pages already, I really think the new M should support 400 hp out of any size V8 engine. Seriously even more hp than 400 and E46M's won't hang even with a light upgrade S/C or Turbo. The Over eggagerated Horsepower wars is turning into overkill. SL65AMG is worthless. What if a 2007 M3 with a 450hp engine wasn't powerful enough in 2009 so they made a 900hp one. 400hp is just about right for a sports car that can haul 5 ppl.

The Over eggagerated Horsepower wars is turning into overkill. SL65AMG is worthless. What if a 2007 M3 with a 450hp engine wasn't powerful enough in 2009 so they made a 900hp one. 400hp is just about right for a sports car that can haul 5 ppl.


SL65 worthless?? Though you'd probably get a chorus of agreement with the Consumer Reports crowd, I think you're in the minority of enthusiasts.

The M3 is a top-end performance car from a performance-oriented marque. So it needs to be competitive (to say the least) to keep it's status. In this market, 400HP will barely cut it if at all. I'd personally like to see 450.

Geez, such suspense! Really. 6 pages already, I really think the new M should support 400 hp out of any size V8 engine. Seriously even more hp than 400 and E46M's won't hang even with a light upgrade S/C or Turbo. The Over eggagerated Horsepower wars is turning into overkill. SL65AMG is worthless. What if a 2007 M3 with a 450hp engine wasn't powerful enough in 2009 so they made a 900hp one. 400hp is just about right for a sports car that can haul 5 ppl.

wow...the bugatti veyron with 1000 hp is worthless... :chair:

Trust me, regardless of the HP output of the new M, it will have the body and the suspension setup to match. I would seriously think 400 to 450HP is not out of the asking price and with big competition trying to hunt the M down, MSport will have to produce something special.

Naveen to answer yr question first. Has ANY car company EVER got customer feedback prior to lauch ????? I dont think anyone here on this board has ever filled out a report or survey so that should answer yr question. What I say to BMW and MSport is... build it and we will come......

The powerwar might be in overdrive but dont think I would use overkill.

Since when did too much power ever become enough ??????
Ada///M.

The wait continues.....

As of last week, BMW has already started testing its new F1 V8 engine for next season. Im unsure of the exact displacement but this can only be great news for the new M V8. The engine was tested over 2 very grueling days and the engine pulled thru with flying colours. What parts might we find off this engine that will be placed in ours ?????. The outgoing V10 engine currently displaces 900+HP, the exact figures of the new V8 are unknown but you can bet that our 4.X wont have anywhere near those numbers, but its nice to know they can churn out that sort of power if they have to......

A 19K redline, now wouldnt that be nice....
Ada///M.

My only worries are what the stock 0-60 and 1/4 mile times will be. The M6 is doing 4.3-4.4 and the M5 is doing 4.4-4.5 so the M3 NEEDS to be doing at least 4.3 or better. We have the C6, forthcoming Shelby GT500, and the skyline to worry about. The stock C6 with a manual is doing 4.1 and the GT500 is targeted at the Z06 so expect numbers 3.7-4.0.

If the E90 M3 doesn't at least shave off .5 secs then what's the point of the car?

As of last week, BMW has already started testing its new F1 V8 engine for next season. Im unsure of the exact displacement but this can only be great news for the new M V8. The engine was tested over 2 very grueling days and the engine pulled thru with flying colours. What parts might we find off this engine that will be placed in ours ?????. The outgoing V10 engine currently displaces 900+HP, the exact figures of the new V8 are unknown but you can bet that our 4.X wont have anywhere near those numbers, but its nice to know they can churn out that sort of power if they have to......

A 19K redline, now wouldnt that be nice....
Ada///M.
The new V8 engine for F1 will be a 2.4L engine, of course that has nothing to do with the M engine, but both will be high reving and some technology will be transfered from race to street car. :beer:

My only worries are what the stock 0-60 and 1/4 mile times will be. The M6 is doing 4.3-4.4 and the M5 is doing 4.4-4.5 so the M3 NEEDS to be doing at least 4.3 or better. We have the C6, forthcoming Shelby GT500, and the skyline to worry about. The stock C6 with a manual is doing 4.1 and the GT500 is targeted at the Z06 so expect numbers 3.7-4.0.

If the E90 M3 doesn't at least shave off .5 secs then what's the point of the car?
It is a street legal race car not a dragster/muscle car.

I'm not challenging you at all...I'm just curious. Where do the 0-60 numbers come from? They are lower than what BMW claims in their literature. Are these real world reports.

It's the same with the E46 M3. BMW says 4.8 but many say it's actually tenths lower and I just saw some goofy mag with a time of 5.2 ( :nixweiss: ).

Anyway, thanks.

My only worries are what the stock 0-60 and 1/4 mile times will be. The M6 is doing 4.3-4.4 and the M5 is doing 4.4-4.5 so the M3 NEEDS to be doing at least 4.3 or better. We have the C6, forthcoming Shelby GT500, and the skyline to worry about. The stock C6 with a manual is doing 4.1 and the GT500 is targeted at the Z06 so expect numbers 3.7-4.0.

If the E90 M3 doesn't at least shave off .5 secs then what's the point of the car?

I agree with Gary, the books, jurnos and BMW themselves are claming the M5 & M6 will cross the line 4.8 to 100kmh or 62mph. M3 STOCK has always claimed the 5.2 tag and worse in some cases. To move to your predicted 4.3 would be taking the 2.4L V8 engine in the F1 and slotting it in. Those times are a world apart and not realistic. Im sure the M3GTR LeMans race car wouldnt be pulling those sort of times.. And not to be rude and this is seriously not a flame at all BUT show me a Vette STOCK..... that is running 4.1 to 100Kmh / 62MPH.
Ada///M.

I don't know where to find C6 Z06 specs but they were pretty damn impressive.. 7:43 time around the 'Ring too (confirmed now)

I cant wait... ::drool::

Still no details as of yet...... waiting NOT so patiently.
Ada///M.

Another week gone.... plenty of stories out there just nothing FIRM.
Will keep my ear to the ground...
Ada///M.

other than the new body and v8 i dont think it is gonna be so much more faster and better, considering the m6 is suppose to do around 4.6 seconds 0-60 mph. And 2006 m3 (2001-) can do 4.8 seconds 0-60 mph. i think after the 5th year of the same design they have to up there game, they probably thought people were getting sick of it, s4 has a v8 and so does the c55, and the m3 can still keep up none the less beat them with its 6 cylinder. also i like bmw style , now that all the major car industries have throw there new engines out. bmw can come along last and just throw out a bigger and badder engine than them, thus making audi and mercedes custumers wanting more out of there cars. ( mercedes comes out with a new amg or engine every weekend anywayz) :beer:

And STILL the verdict is OUT..... but the latest is
4.0 with 310Kw / 415HP curious what the power to weight will be...
Ada///M.

Lets hope it isint that much heavier than the e46

Lets hope it isint that much heavier than the e46

its going to be lighter actually, because of the magnesium material they are using I believe

its going to be lighter actually, because of the magnesium material they are using I believe
Thankyou professor :D

Thankyou professor :D

ahh yes. I knew my years of education would pay off eventually :peace:

magnesium = $$$$

*shrug* BMW M3=$$$

it will be a 4.4 liter engine with 425 hp. according to the latest edition of the german magazine "Auto Bild".
Cooking! :dance:

Hmm it would be nice and would make a lot more sense if the M is a 4.4 as they are already using a varient of this engine. If they were to use a 4.4L I would suggest they could crank out atleast 440+ with the CSL weighing in at 480+ which would still put the M well under its bigger brothers the M5 & M6.
Ada///M.

There was talk about the m5/6 with 5.5L and 550hp but it arrived with "only" 5L and 500hp, so going on the past the M3 won't have 4.4L (can anyone realistically seeing them add 1.2L after they added only 0.1L to the m5 please no wishful thinking) my guess is a 3.9L (low end of displacement rumours) with 400hp (low end of hp rumours). i firmly believe that you'll be hearing i told you so from me.

Hmm it would be nice and would make a lot more sense if the M is a 4.4 as they are already using a varient of this engine. If they were to use a 4.4L I would suggest they could crank out atleast 440+ with the CSL weighing in at 480+ which would still put the M well under its bigger brothers the M5 & M6.
Ada///M.

ahhh....if it were only to be true :beer: but unfortunately i can't see it coming to fruition, BMW are not smart enough (or maybe too smart) to take control of the straightline speed race with their competitors. They had a chance with the M5 to be leaps and bounds ahead of AMG (even their new 6.3 V8) if they had upped the displacemnt more significantly over the E39. As to why they didn't i have my thoughts............

Who knows Digger but one can only hope. Dont forget the new M will have a swag of surprises and Im 100% sure you may be eating your words but time will tell the tail. The R&D in my books has already been done with the 4.4L so to rebuild something smaller to me, just doesnt make sense, maybe thats the reason why I drive and dont build.....!

IMHO, the figures that I have quoted above re the 4.4 seem about right and certainly are sustainable and scaleable should BMW MSport decide to take that road, again time will tell.
Ada///M.

Who knows Digger but one can only hope. Dont forget the new M will have a swag of surprises and Im 100% sure you may be eating your words but time will tell the tail. The R&D in my books has already been done with the 4.4L so to rebuild something smaller to me, just doesnt make sense, maybe thats the reason why I drive and dont build.....!

IMHO, the figures that I have quoted above re the 4.4 seem about right and certainly are sustainable and scaleable should BMW MSport decide to take that road, again time will tell.
Ada///M.
There is no way M3 CSL or not is going to have 480 hp, soory to ruin the party adam, 20-30 bhp difference between M6 and M3, nah. Carrera S is making 355 hp, do you really think M3 is going to be well over 400? Highly doubt it but as you always say, time will tell, I am guessing right around 400, little less, little more.

Who knows Digger but one can only hope. Dont forget the new M will have a swag of surprises and Im 100% sure you may be eating your words but time will tell the tail. The R&D in my books has already been done with the 4.4L so to rebuild something smaller to me, just doesnt make sense, maybe thats the reason why I drive and dont build.....!

IMHO, the figures that I have quoted above re the 4.4 seem about right and certainly are sustainable and scaleable should BMW MSport decide to take that road, again time will tell.
Ada///M.

the only reason for bmw to go with a 4.4 is if the weight takes a big jump, in which case a 4.0L with same weight as e46 will do the same job. Rezus makes a good point of the S having "only" 355hp. The chances of having 85hp more than the S in the M is slim IMO atleast.

When has too much power ever been enough..... (Quote Adam {Australia} 2004.5)


For mine, the Carrera S is a bottom of the range 996 or 997 when you look at the scale of Carrera's yet to come out or are out. I personally dont think BMW MSport have a firm aim on pinching clientele from a two door/ two seater sports car market, rather they are aiming at their other "VERY" real rivals the RS4, C55 and alike and thats just in the European Market.

So based on that, I still believe the M3 will have to step well into the 415+HP category considering the names mentioned above are all ready supplying such power/BHP. The CSL will provide bigger numbers IMHO as the new V8 will be a lot easier to MOD than the current I6 as most of the guys on this forum can attest to.
Ada///M.

When has too much power ever been enough.....

[QUOTE=BMWWilliamsF1]
For mine, the Carrera S is a bottom of the range 996 or 997 when you look at the scale of Carrera's yet to come out or are out. I personally dont think BMW MSport have a firm aim on pinching clientele from a two door/ two seater sports car market, rather they are aiming at their other "VERY" real rivals the RS4, C55 and alike and thats just in the European Market.


never............. :beer:

the S can still cut a 12.x in the 1/4


So based on that, I still believe the M3 will have to step well into the 415+HP category considering the names mentioned above are all ready supplying such power.
Ada///M.

i agree! its just that i think our expectations will fall somewhat short, i think BMW believes it doesn't have to match their rivals in absolute hp numbers, but rather they believe their whole pakage will still be better and thats really what an M is all about. They still outsell their rivals with 400hp and thats what it all comes down to, $$$$ for BMW. AMG relies almost solely on straightline speed and comfort so they need to push the boundaries on performace to sell cars but M division does not need this approach. They'll only do what they have to to maintain their market share

I agree and disagree. BMW MSport with the M3 has always been two things.

1. Superior on Speed, regardless if in a straight line or in the twisties.
2. Superior setup and stance on the road for that Pure Driving Experience.

So based on this, I personally believe M will seriously make its competitors sit up and play catch up ONCE again.
Ada////M.

PS Bring on the 4.4L

I would rather see a 4.0l at round 425-435hp BMW has also been abought brining lots of HP out of a smaller liter.. I dont see this happening but hey I can hope right :)

Well Gentlemen Im new it took me a couple hours to read all of these 2o some pages but the new M3 is not just about the gt 500 and z06 hp those cars are only straight speed muscle cars what about the nice interior of an M3 or the nice looks of a E46 id take it any day over an c5 or a stang what do girls say when you pull up with an M3 next to their boyfriend and his stang they just look at you like you are god.

Think about that cheap z06 and stang interior that is still stuck in the 80s M3 is still an all around best car.

Well Gentlemen Im new it took me a couple hours to read all of these 2o some pages but the new M3 is not just about the gt 500 and z06 hp those cars are only straight speed muscle cars what about the nice interior of an M3 or the nice looks of a E46 id take it any day over an c5 or a stang what do girls say when you pull up with an M3 next to their boyfriend and his stang they just look at you like you are god.

Think about that cheap z06 and stang interior that is still stuck in the 80s M3 is still an all around best car.


Amen!!! I mean I love chevy and ford trucks.....but seriously, pull up in a M3 or even a nice 330 next to any guy in an American or Japanese sports car (except for say a viper or CTS-V or something a little exotic) and you can at least see a tinge of embarassment and envy in their face .... M3 = class :bow:

except a z06 isnt all staightline speed. the new one is turning some of the fastest laps around the ring even with cars 4 times as much. i realize that the new z06 is really a m3 competetor but dont diss it saying its just straigh line speed

ok we want to talk about racing what about the M3s killing Rs6 Porsches and last place vette and viper with 30 german cars in front I think it is the GT series racing Proffesional racing well the M3 is still number 1 the last time I checked you M3 guys know who Im talking about Hans Stuck Boris Said etc.

The red and white wide bodied M3 GTRs.

Another week passes and still no further confirmation on engine displacement or HP / Kw output.... Stay tuned.
Ada///M.

What you are missing is that BMW M can outpower AMG anytime of the day or week if they want to by over 100 kW in any of the models and classes.. Merc have admitted they are 5 years behind in engine technology..

But there is no point in going for the overkill.. take the M5 for eg.. they could have gone to 450 kW odd.. but where would that have left the next M5.. this way they leave room open for 400 odd kW for the next generation..

And even with this power they have now they are killing the E55 and CLS55..

and the AMG 6.3 isnt going to be much faster at all.. I mean look at it.. even with an extra 1.3 liters over the M division they only have the same power and are 1600 RPM behind..

And with the next gen. M3 we might get 9000 RPM.. They just keeping ahead or equal to the competition and way ahead on technology..

ahhh....if it were only to be true :beer: but unfortunately i can't see it coming to fruition, BMW are not smart enough (or maybe too smart) to take control of the straightline speed race with their competitors. They had a chance with the M5 to be leaps and bounds ahead of AMG (even their new 6.3 V8) if they had upped the displacemnt more significantly over the E39. As to why they didn't i have my thoughts............

What you are missing is that BMW M can outpower AMG anytime of the day or week if they want to by over 100 kW in any of the models and classes.. Merc have admitted they are 5 years behind in engine technology..

But there is no point in going for the overkill.. take the M5 for eg.. they could have gone to 450 kW odd.. but where would that have left the next M5.. this way they leave room open for 400 odd kW for the next generation..

And even with this power they have now they are killing the E55 and CLS55..

and the AMG 6.3 isnt going to be much faster at all.. I mean look at it.. even with an extra 1.3 liters over the M division they only have the same power and are 1600 RPM behind..

And with the next gen. M3 we might get 9000 RPM.. They just keeping ahead or equal to the competition and way ahead on technology..

i think you missed what i said, becasue i said what you said, which is they don't need to out power their opposition, not that they couldn't achieve it if they wanted